selig wrote: ↑12 Jun 2020
OK so if poverty = criminally inclined, then the rich countries would have fewer criminals, correct? But despite the US being one of the richest countries (12th richest according to what I was able to find), it has a much higher incarceration rate than ANY other country by a long shot.
I guess I'm not expressing myself as clearly as I should be. When I'm saying 'poverty' it's more or less shorthand for 'relative povery' i.e. how poor are you compared to other people in your country/community? I don't think most people (at least in the western world) have an acute sense of their
absolute wealth or poverty compared to the rest of the world's population, because their perception of community struggles to stretch that far.
I mean, if you'd turn that argument around you'd end up saying that black people in the US (12th out of 195) are some of the most privileged people on earth, so why are they even complaining about poverty? It's the perception of poverty/underprivilege/inequality that counts (psychologically speaking) and that is heavily determined by how wealthy/privileged they perceive other people in their community/society/environment to be.
selig wrote: ↑12 Jun 2020
So, are we still certain there's a link, and if so do we still have a problem because we are putting far more folks in prison per capita here in the US than would account for "social circumstances"?
I would deem the absolutely huge prison population of the USA a different, though not entirely separate issue. Because the US is so extreme compared to even highly similar (in social en economic terms) countries like Canada or the UK many explanations quickly fall flat. I'll just offer some possible factors:
1 ) relatively (compared to other countries) large prevalence of violent crime and homicide (more serious crime > more people in prison)
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-in ... urder-rate (us is #14 in murder rate out of 195)
2 ) relatively high (i.e. prison time) sentences for minor offences (i.e. drug related offences and such)
(here in Holland selling some MDMA at a festival would most likely get you a fine and a ban from that festival, I imagine the US will be much stricter, and much stricter still if you are black, which is one of the clear vestiges of institutional racism)
3 ) relatively high wealth inequality (this is probably a huge factor towards 1), US is #11 out of 195. Inequality breeds resentment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... h_equality (you have to sort by GINI 2018)
(interesting note: that Edward guy you were talking to earlier comes from Ukraine I think, which is the #1 most unequal country in the world in terms of wealth at the moment, which no doubt informs his opinions on these matters)
4 ) cultural issues (this one is more tendentious but might also contribute to 1) i.e. a slightly-too-cavalier attitude towards violence, acceptability of gun ownership, romanticization of criminal/outlaw lifestyles in media, highly militarized approach to policing, those kinds of things
selig wrote: ↑12 Jun 2020
And besides that, IMO the real issue isn't if you are criminally inclined or not, or if the police are arresting you at a higher rate or not - it's WHY ARE YOU BEING KILLED FOR CRIMES LIKE PASSING A FAKE $20 BILL?!?
first I'd like to say : WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU SCREAMING AT ME, I'M NOT THE MOTHERFUCKER THAT CHOKED THE GUY!
now that I have that out of my system
Maybe it's going to sound waaay to cold when I say this, but I would venture that that is what tragically happens sometimes when a bad/resentful attitude towards the police meets a highly militarized/authoritarian style of policing.
Edit: it happens in my own country too, just far less often. Unfortunately there is no english-language page for this, but maybe you can get a semi-sensible translation out of google:
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dood_van_Mitch_Henriquez