What is going on in the USA and stuff

[jam-s]

This is a weak argumentation imo. Like I came to this world and signed "The Contract' with 'The Society' (hereinafter 'Them') and now that 'The Contract' is broken, the whole world is at fault. And now I feel free to release my anger against random people as I see they belong to the society. This is a very individualistic position, and any terrorist or common criminal can use that logic to justify their actions, at least for themselves.

You might think of it as weak argumentation, but people that are not as smart and feel betrayed by society will (subconsciously) isolate from society and thus "break" that contract that they "signed" by being socialized in the society. So of course it is a very individualistic "justification logic", but that's what left when people go the f***society route: individuals.

[Boombastix]

This is a weak argumentation imo. Like I came to this world and signed "The Contract' with 'The Society' (hereinafter 'Them') and now that 'The Contract' is broken, the whole world is at fault. And now I feel free to release my anger against random people as I see they belong to the society. This is a very individualistic position, and any terrorist or common criminal can use that logic to justify their actions, at least for themselves.

You might think of it as weak argumentation, but people that are not as smart and feel betrayed by society will (subconsciously) isolate from society and thus "break" that contract that they "signed" by being socialized in the society. So of course it is a very individualistic "justification logic", but that's what left when people go the f***society route: individuals.

Why did the East European countries start to break away from Soviet then, with uprising and street fights? Why not just stay under the communist regime and accept your fate and the "social contract" given?
Why did the African-Americans fight slavery, is that also an individualistic position? "How dare you not accept lynchings and keep you as a property", is that it?
French Revolution 1789-1799, damn those egomaniacs right, how dare they rise up against the aristocrats?

Did any of those events occur with zero hiccups or messiness? Would you expect fights for freedom/equality/justice be calm like a game of dominos?
Do you also understand the rioters are not only the protesters, but also groups who riot just to divert attention and destroy the cause, and make some individuals fall for it. Did you fall for those tactics, or are you able to see what is really going on and the complexities that exists?

In my area we had one night a big police attendance at the shopping mall as a precaution for a an approaching caravan of suspected looters who were organizing themselves and were on its way over (Police referred to them as "Organized Crime Units"). Local protesters, nah dude, not even close...Not everything is what it seems.

[jam-s]

One good thing about the protests and riots and stuff is that at least we now know the Covid stuff was a big fake hoax. Because if it was real... (so deadly, so dangerous, so contagious!) then why would every democrat city mayor/gov support their own people going out and catching/spreading it en masse?

They say they're organizing for 1 million on streets in DC this weekend. In the midst of a Pandemic lockdown?

So either a.) it was a fake/hyped disease and we all got quarantined and lost jobs, tanked economy, etc all for nothing...
or b.) someone WANTS that disease to spread way more for it's 2nd phase. (which is RIGHT NOW)

I think, we will see see the effect of less social distancing in the US Covid-19 count soon enough. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

[jam-s]

Why did the East European countries start to break away from Soviet then, with uprising and street fights? Why not just stay under the communist regime and accept your fate and the "social contract" given?
...

I think you did not get the point. If people see that the social contract is being broken by the "ruling class/people in power" (like it was in the communist USSR or during aristocracy times), they start to cancel it themselves and thus also start to riot. Of course the social contract has to be something that is agreeable upon in the first place and the agreed upon terms might have to be re-negotiated from time to time in a society to actually work.

[Boombastix]

Why did the East European countries start to break away from Soviet then, with uprising and street fights? Why not just stay under the communist regime and accept your fate and the "social contract" given?
...

I think you did not get the point. If people see that the social contract is being broken by the "ruling class/people in power" (like it was in the communist USSR or during aristocracy times), they start to cancel it themselves and thus also start to riot. Of course the social contract has to be something that is agreeable upon in the first place and the agreed upon terms might have to be re-negotiated from time to time in a society to actually work.

You just read it backwards. We say the same thing.

[joeyluck]

It's great seeing all of the people and businesses showing support, including Reason Studios. There are those taking action and having zero tolerance such as Guitar Center: https://www.guitarworld.com/news/guitar ... d-websites It sends a message and I'm happy to be a customer of these businesses.

These are all very small things within the big picture, but perhaps more relevant to our industry here. No, the removal of a product from a store isn't going to solve the problem of social injustice, but it's everyone continuing to speak up and have zero tolerance that can at least help make a change.

Lots of businesses in my area are being called out for their racist comments and they are being boycotted

[Jmax]

I agree it's absolutely horrible and a murder by the racist cop, and I'm sure many of them are. But I believe the majority are amazing people and very good cops. I do agree this is a big racism problem in America.

Also Black Lives Matter. Right, I get it.

But why is BLSM silent when their entire communities are getting shot up every day?. There's literally blacks killing other blacks every day in the U.S. It's a HUGE problem. Not a single word from the Black lives matter movement, or the media, or Black Lives Matter. I guess that kind of murder is acceptable. And I'm talking black people often killing innocent people in the crossfire, happens all the time. A black cop close to retirement was killed by a black individual for nothing. So until the black lives matter community wants to speak on that, i feel your missing the BIG piece of the puzzle. Your own people are murdering each other non-stop every day. Black Lives Matter so lets hear about that.

And the media glorifies these big rallies for poor George Floyd in the middle of an epidemic while people with Covid-19 are forced to die alone, families not able to say goodbye, seperated. Funerals from Zoom (I know someone).
So it's either one or the other, the Media really has to decide. All head games I'm afraid.

[joeyluck]

I agree it's absolutely horrible and a murder by the racist cop, and I'm sure many of them are. But I believe the majority are amazing people and very good cops. I do agree this is a big racism problem in America.

Also Black Lives Matter. Right, I get it.

But why is BLSM silent when their entire communities are getting shot up every day?. There's literally blacks killing other blacks every day in the U.S. It's a HUGE problem. Not a single word from the Black lives matter movement, or the media, or Black Lives Matter. I guess that kind of murder is acceptable. And I'm talking black people often killing innocent people in the crossfire, happens all the time. A black cop close to retirement was killed by a black individual for nothing. So until the black lives matter community wants to speak on that, i feel your missing the BIG piece of the puzzle. Your own people are murdering each other non-stop every day. Black Lives Matter so lets hear about that.

And the media glorifies these big rallies for poor George Floyd in the middle of an epidemic while people with Covid-19 are forced to die alone, families not able to say goodbye, seperated. Funerals from Zoom (I know someone).
So it's either one or the other, the Media really has to decide. All head games I'm afraid.

This way of thinking is no different than saying "all lives matter" in response to "black lives matter."



There are other groups and movements that do focus on what you are talking about. This movement has a very specific focus and it needs to be a very specific focus.

In that video, he quotes Chris Rock, which I think is a brilliant point. In which Chris said, "Some jobs can't have bad apples.....American Airlines can't be like—ya know, most of our pilots like to land, we just got a few bad apples like like to crash in to mountains." There is no room for bad apples in any police department. It has to change.

I think the movements now to "defund the police" aren't serious suggestions, but rather ways mayors are putting pressure on police departments to have some urgency to make changes. They have to be better. And maybe the solution is like the first video—paying them more and making it a prestigious job with more training and requirements.

[EdGrip]

I think the calls to defund the police are serious. Police budgets dwarf spending by other council and city departments, meaning the police are forced to be social services, therapists, youth outreach workers and every other service that should be available but isn't because the police consumed their budgets. The call is not "abolish the police", but rather "try spending some of those literally billions of dollars per city on improving lives rather than criminalising them."

As somebody put it recently, when your only tool is a cop, every problem becomes a crime. People in deprived and poor communities who have been disenfranchised since birth are more likely to end up involved in crime, including violent crime. Poverty and deprivation disproportionately affect black communities. It is not the job of black people to condemn the crimes of other black people any more than it's your job to condemn the crimes of other white people. That's not the issue. The issue is deeply entrenched institutional and cultural racism that STILL persists after decades and centuries.

[EdGrip]

If your response to people demanding racist cops stop killing them, is "But what about other crimes??", you really need to examine WHY that is your reaction.

[Auryn]

This way of thinking is no different than saying "all lives matter" in response to "black lives matter."

I'm gonna have to disagree with you here but I'll try to be respectful... I don't think that response is entirely inappropriate considering that the cops just kill a lot of people in the US period. The overall number per capita is just huge compared to any European country or even to Canada. So I can completely get the anti-police-brutality sentiment. But the race angle seems more spurious to me. There's no way to ascertain that George Floyd would have lived had he been some white dude with a mullet, a wife beater and a lousy attitude. There's also a significant chance that George Floyd would not have died had he been exactly the same black dude but wearing an expensive tailored suit, matching shoes and suitcase. Police unfortunately treat poorly people they perceive to be lower-class/status. I think that happens around the world pretty much the same way, and that should absolutely change.

I can understand that you find Jmax' post to be in poor taste but calling attention to social/cultural issues is not entirely irrelevant. Consider what I just said - the police kill a lot of people in the US compared to other countries - so the US police must be bad, right? If you consider however that the overall number of gun homicides in the US is also HUGE compared to for example Canada, or (if you really want a shock) Japan, you might conclude that the real problem lies deeper. I feel like faulting the US police for being trigger happy and violent when the rest of the country (e.g. the people they have to face off with) is also trigger happy and violent is unfair. The real problem IMHO lies with the cultural acceptability of violence in the US.

In that video, he quotes Chris Rock, which I think is a brilliant point. In which Chris said, "Some jobs can't have bad apples.....American Airlines can't be like—ya know, most of our pilots like to land, we just got a few bad apples like like to crash in to mountains." There is no room for bad apples in any police department. It has to change.

I think you are comparing bad apples and bad oranges here. Airline pilot is obviously a super responsible job, but I suspect it is quite a predictable and orderly job normally, might even get a bit boring perhaps after 10+ years... I think a US cop's job is more like being an airline pilot and stewardess at the same time in a plane where everyone might potentially be carrying a gun, while not even getting paid remotely as much as an airline pilot!

I think the movements now to "defund the police" aren't serious suggestions, but rather ways mayors are putting pressure on police departments to have some urgency to make changes. They have to be better. And maybe the solution is like the first video—paying them more and making it a prestigious job with more training and requirements.

I mean I agree completely with your last sentiment (this is basically what I was trying to say with my rant on the last page), cops should be paid significantly more, and should be screened and trained thoroughly, to avoid sensation-seeking or power-tripping type personalities getting in. Currently I believe the police attracts people with such a temperament and usually hires them because no-one else wants to do the job. What you actually need are thoughtful disciplined people that can be firm but are always conscious of the seriousness and unpredictability of violence (e.g. a guy like Jocko Willink) But I certainly don't agree that supporting a slogan like "defund the police" is gonna be helpful in any way, when what you actually want to do is SUPERfund the police.

edits: why is there a link in the word "oranges"...? I have no idea

[Boombastix]

If you still struggle with what BLM is in relation to All Lives Matters and what it means, you can just go to Wikipedia, it explains it.

The video I posted above also explains that BLM is about more than just police brutality.

Even though police brutality is very much at the forefront right now, it isn't only about police vs black. The police brutality is also an Everyone vs Evil. Such as the escalation of militarization and violence, and this too:

[selig]

The problem, and the protests, are more about the police getting away with the violence that would put anyone else in jail. To say "others do it" is missing the point - yes, others do it too and for the most part pay the price.
As for "defunding the police" (an unfortunate choice of words), this has already been done in Camden NJ and Compton CA. Even the police themselves say they don't want to do the "non-police" things they are asked to do, like settle domestic disputes or deal with mental health issues - they are simply not trained for that, but we DO need folks trained to take care of such things. And the "defund" movement is really just saying the money for those services should come from some of the money used for the police, since they would no longer be doing those jobs.
In the end, it should be up to each community to decide how they want to be protected, right?

[guitfnky]

The problem, and the protests, are more about the police getting away with the violence that would put anyone else in jail. To say "others do it" is missing the point - yes, others do it too and for the most part pay the price.
As for "defunding the police" (an unfortunate choice of words), this has already been done in Camden NJ and Compton CA. Even the police themselves say they don't want to do the "non-police" things they are asked to do, like settle domestic disputes or deal with mental health issues - they are simply not trained for that, but we DO need folks trained to take care of such things. And the "defund" movement is really just saying the money for those services should come from some of the money used for the police, since they would no longer be doing those jobs.
In the end, it should be up to each community to decide how they want to be protected, right?

yes, the “defund” movement has the right idea, but their choice of words is bafflingly stupid. “defund” means a very specific thing in common usage, but if you listen to what they actually want, it’s reform. normally I wouldn’t much care, because to me their stated goals are more important than what they call it—but I do care, because by using the hashtag #defundthepolice, they’ve just given the political opposition fresh ammunition to say “see? they want to defund and abolish law enforcement! they’re too extreme!”

[joeyluck]

No there is absolutely no comparison that can be made between the conflict/violence between two civilians and a cop commiting violence against a civilian and killing a civilian.

If you and I as civilians have a conflict and physical confrontation, we can defend ourselves and can even attempt to run to avoid the other. If I see a conflict between two civilians I can try to break it up.

When you are confronted by police, any physical defense is assaulting a police officer or resisting arrest... you running from a cop is evading or resisting arrest. If someone fears for their life under the hand of a police officer, there is nothing they can do without stacking on more charges. And that is the feeling of so many black people in the US. It is a very scary and shitty position to be in.

Onlookers had to watch the killing of George Floyd because they could not do anything, because it was a police officer!

So please understand the difference.

[Reasonable man]

Most people have no promblem with the theoritical role of police anywhere and their very presence is a hindrance to cime and unlawfullness.
Thats in theory though . Police establishments and departments arn't run like that .. its not the primary function. Their primary function (where i'm from anyway) is to bring in government revenue though fines. The more revenue generated , the more succesfull and valuable they are.
Unfortunatley when things are slow; they work a little too hard to generate that revenue and in my experience they take it on themselves to 'make' things happen all too often.
There is a culture within policing that your not a very good at your job if you dont have the fines and conviction rates to back it up , the more fines, conviction rates etc ..the more valuable you are, the quicker you can work your way up the power and money ladder. This starts at the top and trickles down . If you've got nothing to show from driving or walking around for 8/9 hours then your not much use and your not justifying your position.
This, imo is the main culture that has to stop as it puts too much pressure on the average cop as there is absolutley no benifit or reward for doing the right thing or acting in the right way. Your not gonna get many people posting youtube videos of police acting professionally etc , the flip side is until recently you didn't have many people posting you tube video of corruption and disgracefull behaviour either . thats changing now though.
No one is saying its an esay job but its your choice to sign up for it..no-one elses. What i think happens with alot of em is that they get away with a hell of alot because the law is on on their side no matter what ..and some of them get carried away and think their always gonna get away with it .. its human nature unfortunatley.

[littlejam]

hello,

is it better to try to intervene to stop the police from...
is it better to walk away
is it better to stand by and film the incident with an iphone?
without police, who are you gonna call when you're in trouble...a neighbor?

because one 'bad cop' does something wrong
doesn't mean all cops are bad

if a fireman chooses not to go into to a burning building
does that mean all firepeople are bad?

i use yahoo for news, so i'm not sure if the news is correct
i would like to know if this floyd guy was high on drugs and resisted arrest for passing counterfeit money and got caught

my dad, a lawyer, told me to say yes sir no sir yes your honor no your honor
and let justice prevail
if a person has done something wrong and the police confront you, you go along with it, you've done something wrong

i have read that floyd is over 6ft tall, a big guy, difficult to restrain if resisting
however, police need to know when enough is enough
if i were police, i would've tazed the person
but then that might have caused a heart attack and the guy still could've died
if the guy ran and you chase him and he gets hit by a truck and dies

cause and effect doesn't always work in your favor
over a pack of cigarettes

there is corruption and abuse of power in everything you can think of
many bad apples in a bunch shouldn't mean condemning the lot

the story is like an onion, many layers
or one of those russian dolls that have like 10 more smaller dolls inside

or when something bad happens to you
you can call ghostbusters

at this point, it isn't a matter of black and white
it is very grey
or is it gray

cheers,

j

[Jmax]

I agree it's absolutely horrible and a murder by the racist cop, and I'm sure many of them are. But I believe the majority are amazing people and very good cops. I do agree this is a big racism problem in America.

Also Black Lives Matter. Right, I get it.

But why is BLSM silent when their entire communities are getting shot up every day?. There's literally blacks killing other blacks every day in the U.S. It's a HUGE problem. Not a single word from the Black lives matter movement, or the media, or Black Lives Matter. I guess that kind of murder is acceptable. And I'm talking black people often killing innocent people in the crossfire, happens all the time. A black cop close to retirement was killed by a black individual for nothing. So until the black lives matter community wants to speak on that, i feel your missing the BIG piece of the puzzle. Your own people are murdering each other non-stop every day. Black Lives Matter so lets hear about that.

And the media glorifies these big rallies for poor George Floyd in the middle of an epidemic while people with Covid-19 are forced to die alone, families not able to say goodbye, seperated. Funerals from Zoom (I know someone).
So it's either one or the other, the Media really has to decide. All head games I'm afraid.

This way of thinking is no different than saying "all lives matter" in response to "black lives matter."



There are other groups and movements that do focus on what you are talking about. This movement has a very specific focus and it needs to be a very specific focus.

In that video, he quotes Chris Rock, which I think is a brilliant point. In which Chris said, "Some jobs can't have bad apples.....American Airlines can't be like—ya know, most of our pilots like to land, we just got a few bad apples like like to crash in to mountains." There is no room for bad apples in any police department. It has to change.

I think the movements now to "defund the police" aren't serious suggestions, but rather ways mayors are putting pressure on police departments to have some urgency to make changes. They have to be better. And maybe the solution is like the first video—paying them more and making it a prestigious job with more training and requirements.

Well, i get it. The COPS are racist. And that needs to change. I absolutely agree with that. And this goes way back to the start of slavery, apartheid and on and on.

The Media also believes this racism has to change. At least that's what they want you to think. Or do they really care who gets murdered?

I still believe Black on Black crime is an even bigger problem in the U.S. and it is completely ignored by the mainstream media. The Black Lives Matter movement seems to only go viral when a cop is involved or there's a mass shooting, which is terrible I agree. Always by white guys no less. And this is racism at it's core.

Do you want to know how many people got shot in Chicago over the last two weeks? look it up. Yes, partially as a result of protests sure.

Want to know how many people have been shot in Chicago this year? 1,003. Up by 128 last year. Why are we not hearing about this every day on social media? Seems to me 1,003 people, 84 this last weekend would be major news. But it's not. No one cares I'm afraid, they only care when the media tells them they should.

So yes lets deal with these issues of racism, and I fully agree this needs to end and Cops need to be trained properly.

But my friend, it is a small problem compare to the inner city violence, which seemingly is completely ignored. So as we morn the death of George Floyd, more and more blacks will be shot and killed in the back round on a weekly basis and we will go back to our regular paid programing with whatever the media chooses next.

[joeyluck]

Crimes between civilians happens primarily based on proximity; which tends to be white on white, black on black, etc. It's a nationwide issue that has no boundaries in the US. And most of those crimes are prosecuted and justice is served. Crimes by cops? Not so much. Not much at all.

The problem here is the incredible injustice and abuse of authority. Watch the video of onlookers witnessing a man being murdered right in front of them, and them not being able to do anything about it, because it involves a police officer. If it were between two civilians, they could've stepped in. But when it involves a cop, you are helpless. A much bigger problem, my friend.

Our entire system here is racist. A black person with a drug charge can spend the majority of their life in prison whereas a white kid who rapes someone gets a few months because "prison may ruin his future."

The system is beyond broken and needs to be fixed.

[EdGrip]

Also the problem of however many shootings happen every day in cities in America has a very simple solution, and it's one that America is not prepared to countenance. Therefore, it seems to me, there's little point looking at those statistics. What would we learn? There are loads of shootings, therefore police?

[Biolumin3sc3nt]

I would like to say that I'm biting My tongue as hard as I can on this topic. It's a very complex issue and I see multitudes of sides. I respect all of You, and I would hate to ruin a good Musical friendship over Politics. However...

Black Lives Matters is not what it seems, nor pretends to be!

[EdGrip]

Well, it's not "Antifa", if that helps.

[Biolumin3sc3nt]

Well, it's not "Antifa", if that helps.

Who's Antifa anyways? Fair question right?

[Aosta]

I think it is worth mentioning that the cop and Floyd George actually knew each other and had previous confrontations when they both worked as bouncers at a nightclub. I think it is much more complicated than 'white cop kills black guy'. Seems there was a personal element in the despicable actions that took place.

[plaamook]

I would like to say that I'm biting My tongue as hard as I can on this topic. It's a very complex issue and I see multitudes of sides.

Absolutely. I can’t even work out which end of the pool to jump in.