New Double Dry/Wet RE by Andrew Russell

This forum is for discussing Rack Extensions. Devs are all welcome to show off their goods.
Bes
Posts: 349
Joined: 22 Feb 2017

Post 24 Feb 2020

Welcome New RE Developer Andrew Russell

Image
Image

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... le-drywet/


Simplify your parallel processing with this one easy-to-use device.

Use as your go-to signal mixer for fast fine-tuning. Open up exciting creative possibilities!

Product details
Chiefly designed for parallel processing: split your audio signal into multiple paths, apply different effects, then mix those signals back together in perfect balance. If you’ve never tried parallel processing, here are some examples:

Try adding distortion your instrument, but apply reverb to the unprocessed signal
Apply multiple distortion effects, then mix towards the best sound
Make a cleaner delay + reverb by putting them in parallel
Do parallel (New York) compression – try it with double compressors (New New York?)
Double Dry/Wet makes it easy to create and play with parallel effects, without the fuss of matching levels on a regular mixer.

Thanks to its clever design, Double Dry/Wet can also fill in when you need a quick 1U signal-mixing device. The user manual gives recipes for configuring Double Dry/Wet as:

Dual Parallel Dry/Wet Control
Dual Serial Dry/Wet Control
Crossfader (linear or constant power)
5x Audio Splitter
Up to 3x Audio Merger
2-Channel Mixer
Gain Control from -∞ up to 18 dB
Chain multiple copies of Double Dry/Wet together for even greater possibilities!
Last edited by Bes on 24 Feb 2020, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Loque
Posts: 7466
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 24 Feb 2020

Cool idea. How does it compare to SPEM?
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

Bes
Posts: 349
Joined: 22 Feb 2017

Post 24 Feb 2020

i really like the simple design of this one. the SPEM interface was too busy for me

also one of the best layed out manuals i've looked through in a while :thumbs_up:

User avatar
orthodox
Posts: 1180
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

Post 24 Feb 2020

What about FX delay compensation? Does it assume FXs to be instant and compensate only for one 64-sample batch?

EDIT: Just trialed it, no compensation. Simply wiring Send to Return directly gives a COMB+ filter effect. Inserting a polarity invertor between Send and Return gives a COMB- filter.

That's the inherent problem with the Send/Return scheme - the mixer cannot know the delay an FX will introduce. The host (Reason) does know that and can compensate, so a Dry/Wet mixer should generally be built as a combination of a separate splitter, an FX, and an A/B mixer.

This RE can add a switch to compensate for the most common scenario of a zero delay FX like a simple EQ or a compressor.
Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise. -- L.Carroll

User avatar
Zac
Posts: 1663
Joined: 19 May 2016

Post 24 Feb 2020

I'm glad to see this. I have been using the key in combinator in the fsb utilities folder and replacing the eq with whatever device I want to use.

I will try this and see if it provides enough benefits over the combi. As reported above, latency compensation is always an issue and if a device like this can find a way to help with that either by manually reporting or somehow compensating via using a sample delay that device would be incredibly useful to me. And the moon on a stick would be compensating for variable delay ;)

User avatar
Biolumin3sc3nt
Posts: 570
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 24 Feb 2020

orthodox wrote:
24 Feb 2020
What about FX delay compensation? Does it assume FXs to be instant and compensate only for one 64-sample batch?

EDIT: Just trialed it, no compensation. Simply wiring Send to Return directly gives a COMB+ filter effect. Inserting a polarity invertor between Send and Return gives a COMB- filter.

That's the inherent problem with the Send/Return scheme - the mixer cannot know the delay an FX will introduce. The host (Reason) does know that and can compensate, so a Dry/Wet mixer should generally be built as a combination of a separate splitter, an FX, and an A/B mixer.

This RE can add a switch to compensate for the most common scenario of a zero delay FX like a simple EQ or a compressor.
Yeah, that makes sense tho

User avatar
challism
Posts: 1832
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 26 Feb 2020

Does this bring anything new to the table? For $15, it seems like you can easily get the same results by using an audio splitter and three instances of GroovyMelon's Crossfader, thrown in a Combi with the rotary knobs routed to the crossfaders. Am I missing something, other than this being more convenient than putting together a Combi?

I suppose delay compensation can be manually achieved by using the free RE "VMG-01" chained in the signal.
Reason 2.5, Windows 95, 4MB RAM, 133Mhz CPU, integrated audio 14.4k dial-up modem

:rt: :reason: :rt: :reason: :rt: :reason: :rt: :reason: :rt: :reason: :rt:
ReasonTalk Rules and Guidelines

User avatar
MrFigg
Posts: 4572
Joined: 20 Apr 2018

Post 12 May 2020

challism wrote:
26 Feb 2020
Does this bring anything new to the table? For $15, it seems like you can easily get the same results by using an audio splitter and three instances of GroovyMelon's Crossfader, thrown in a Combi with the rotary knobs routed to the crossfaders. Am I missing something, other than this being more convenient than putting together a Combi?

I suppose delay compensation can be manually achieved by using the free RE "VMG-01" chained in the signal.
Was wondering the same thing about bringing anything new. Since that RE was released there’s been another two added to the shop and (and I may be wrong) there’s nothing new they bring to the table either. Also, as yet, there hasn’t been any mention or discussion of them here in the forum and that can’t be a good sign. Can it? I don’t mean to put any developers down. I’m glad they’re putting the time in but as far as I can see those particular REs do stuff which already exists. Here’s the link to the devices.

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/brow ... %20Russell
丰2ॐ

Sterioevo
Posts: 247
Joined: 02 Apr 2015

Post 12 May 2020

Happy customer here.
Simple, quick and effective.
Tried it, straight away knew it is something that will be very productive.
Bought.

bieh
Posts: 30
Joined: 18 May 2020

Post 20 May 2020

MrFigg wrote:
12 May 2020
challism wrote:
26 Feb 2020
Does this bring anything new to the table? For $15, it seems like you can easily get the same results by using an audio splitter and three instances of GroovyMelon's Crossfader, thrown in a Combi with the rotary knobs routed to the crossfaders. Am I missing something, other than this being more convenient than putting together a Combi?

I suppose delay compensation can be manually achieved by using the free RE "VMG-01" chained in the signal.
Was wondering the same thing about bringing anything new. Since that RE was released there’s been another two added to the shop and (and I may be wrong) there’s nothing new they bring to the table either. Also, as yet, there hasn’t been any mention or discussion of them here in the forum and that can’t be a good sign. Can it? I don’t mean to put any developers down. I’m glad they’re putting the time in but as far as I can see those particular REs do stuff which already exists. Here’s the link to the devices.

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/brow ... %20Russell
I think Denote and Velocity Curve both bring something new. Denote has individual note muting that other devices lack, and detects drum gates that don't show up at all on Selig Note View. Velocity Curve has more and better controls than MIDI Compressor, and, I feel, a better look and better use of rack space.

User avatar
Andrew Russell
Posts: 2
Joined: 22 May 2020
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Post 22 May 2020

orthodox wrote:
24 Feb 2020
What about FX delay compensation? Does it assume FXs to be instant and compensate only for one 64-sample batch?
...
Hi everyone. I just want to say thanks for the feedback.

You're totally right about the delay problem. Big oversight on my part :oops:. I'll see what I can do in an update.

User avatar
motuscott
Posts: 1929
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: the New York

Post 22 May 2020

Double New York compression = New York, New York

I got a million of 'em...
Vlad the thread stopper

User avatar
challism
Posts: 1832
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 22 May 2020

bieh wrote:
20 May 2020
MrFigg wrote:
12 May 2020


Was wondering the same thing about bringing anything new. Since that RE was released there’s been another two added to the shop and (and I may be wrong) there’s nothing new they bring to the table either. Also, as yet, there hasn’t been any mention or discussion of them here in the forum and that can’t be a good sign. Can it? I don’t mean to put any developers down. I’m glad they’re putting the time in but as far as I can see those particular REs do stuff which already exists. Here’s the link to the devices.

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/brow ... %20Russell
I think Denote and Velocity Curve both bring something new. Denote has individual note muting that other devices lack, and detects drum gates that don't show up at all on Selig Note View. Velocity Curve has more and better controls than MIDI Compressor, and, I feel, a better look and better use of rack space.
I agree that those two bring something new, or at least a different approach. I have Denote (thanks for the free gift, Andrew) and I love it. It's a very helpful tool. It is great for muting entire sections/ranges of notes you don't want. And it's a nice note viewer too. Velocity Curve looks really good, too, and I'm considering it during the MM sale. I like the GUI of both of those, they look great.

That being said, this thread is about the Double Wet/Dry RE. That is what my comment was about, not the other two REs you mentioned, bieh. I just wanted to clarify what I was talking about. Welcome to the RT forum, btw.
motuscott wrote:
22 May 2020
Double New York compression = New York, New York

I got a million of 'em...

bwah ha ha ha! You have a million? Give us some more, then.
Reason 2.5, Windows 95, 4MB RAM, 133Mhz CPU, integrated audio 14.4k dial-up modem

:rt: :reason: :rt: :reason: :rt: :reason: :rt: :reason: :rt: :reason: :rt:
ReasonTalk Rules and Guidelines

bieh
Posts: 30
Joined: 18 May 2020

Post 22 May 2020

Sorry to post further on a secondary aspects of this thread, but I've realised that to be fair on Selig I should clarify my earlier post by saying that I don't mean all drum gates don't show up on Selig Note View, nor that I think it's necessarily a bug. It happens only in limited circumstances with certain types of devices connected, and I'd have to test that again to remind myself what they are.

User avatar
Andrew Russell
Posts: 2
Joined: 22 May 2020
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Post 11 Jun 2020

Image

Image

Now updated to version 2.0

Hi everyone! Just wanted to let you know that I've released an update to Double Dry/Wet. (Blog post.)

This fixes some, but not all, of the issues raised here about delay compensation. This turned out to be more complex than I was expecting, so I wrote a blog post about it here. I'm working on a separate device that will address remaining issues with parallel signal offsets, but VMG-01 will also work for you in a pinch.

This update also adds CV control, which I'd encourage everyone to check out. Connecting this up to an ADSR or LFO can give you some truly fantastic sounds. It's a really tiny feature, but it makes a huge difference to what you can do with the device, and so I'm really excited about it.

I'd be keen to hear what people are doing with it, and for any other feedback. Thanks again everyone for your support.

User avatar
selig
Moderator
Posts: 8633
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

Post 11 Jun 2020

bieh wrote:
22 May 2020
Sorry to post further on a secondary aspects of this thread, but I've realised that to be fair on Selig I should clarify my earlier post by saying that I don't mean all drum gates don't show up on Selig Note View, nor that I think it's necessarily a bug. It happens only in limited circumstances with certain types of devices connected, and I'd have to test that again to remind myself what they are.
On the contrary, I consider this a service - you didn't have to take the time to do this, and it helps not only me but also all the folks who use NoteView! I consider this a potential bug and will test it myself to see if I can clear it up, and of course I appreciate any confirmations from the field. :)
[EDIT: seems the drum sequencer causes occasional "missed" notes in the display - will dig into it. And apologies to Andrew for hijacking his excellent thread!]
Selig Audio, LLC

User avatar
selig
Moderator
Posts: 8633
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

Post 11 Jun 2020

motuscott wrote:
22 May 2020
Double New York compression = New York, New York

I got a million of 'em...
Or "Detroit, Detroit" aka Motown Compression - Bob Olhsson (Motown, mastering engineer guru) has mentioned they were using this technique in the 1960s:
"Mike McLean actually got the idea from a classical music technique used by DGG and Lawrence adapted it. At the time the best limiter we had was a Fairchild 670 which sounded pretty funky on vocals. We also were recording lead vocals on track one of our 8-tracks because dealing with the lack of HF response and hum did less harm to vocals than other things. The bass went on track 8 for the same reason. After we went 16 track which had a flat response on all the tracks, we pretty much dropped that technique in favor of just using an LA-2A or an Electrodyne compressor. I continued using parallel compression for tracking vocals without Lawrence's eq. or the noise gate that Bob Dennis didn't mention in his article."
From this thread:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much ... -quot.html
Selig Audio, LLC

User avatar
chimp_spanner
Posts: 2452
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

Post 11 Jun 2020

Andrew Russell wrote:
11 Jun 2020
Image

Image

Now updated to version 2.0

Hi everyone! Just wanted to let you know that I've released an update to Double Dry/Wet. (Blog post.)

This fixes some, but not all, of the issues raised here about delay compensation. This turned out to be more complex than I was expecting, so I wrote a blog post about it here. I'm working on a separate device that will address remaining issues with parallel signal offsets, but VMG-01 will also work for you in a pinch.

This update also adds CV control, which I'd encourage everyone to check out. Connecting this up to an ADSR or LFO can give you some truly fantastic sounds. It's a really tiny feature, but it makes a huge difference to what you can do with the device, and so I'm really excited about it.

I'd be keen to hear what people are doing with it, and for any other feedback. Thanks again everyone for your support.
Hey Andrew! Welcome aboard. I'm just demoing this but I'll absolutely pick it up. Super useful for sound design. Nice presentation too and awesome to see you responding so quickly to user feedback. Congrats!

User avatar
Zac
Posts: 1663
Joined: 19 May 2016

Post 11 Jun 2020

Andrew Russell wrote:
11 Jun 2020
Image

Image

Now updated to version 2.0

Hi everyone! Just wanted to let you know that I've released an update to Double Dry/Wet. (Blog post.)

This fixes some, but not all, of the issues raised here about delay compensation. This turned out to be more complex than I was expecting, so I wrote a blog post about it here. I'm working on a separate device that will address remaining issues with parallel signal offsets, but VMG-01 will also work for you in a pinch.

This update also adds CV control, which I'd encourage everyone to check out. Connecting this up to an ADSR or LFO can give you some truly fantastic sounds. It's a really tiny feature, but it makes a huge difference to what you can do with the device, and so I'm really excited about it.

I'd be keen to hear what people are doing with it, and for any other feedback. Thanks again everyone for your support.
Nice update and blog post. I look forward to the new device and picking this one up.

  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: noeticsound and 3 guests