Reason VST3 and Linux

[Brosefski]

Hi!

Quick question! If I use say something like Bitwig on a linux distro, will Reason VST3 plugin work? I'm thinking not because I don't see any documentation on that and my google searches don't render results with answers (tried different keywords) but just want to make sure.

Thank you!

[Busta US]

Hi!

Quick question! If I use say something like Bitwig on a linux distro, will Reason VST3 plugin work? I'm thinking not because I don't see any documentation on that and my google searches don't render results with answers (tried different keywords) but just want to make sure.

Thank you!

Linux and Bitwig both are VST3 compatible so I suppose there should be no problem Try demoing it if you are aware of any bugs with Linux/Bitwig handling VST3

[Brosefski]

Hi!

Quick question! If I use say something like Bitwig on a linux distro, will Reason VST3 plugin work? I'm thinking not because I don't see any documentation on that and my google searches don't render results with answers (tried different keywords) but just want to make sure.

Thank you!

Linux and Bitwig both are VST3 compatible so I suppose there should be no problem Try demoing it if you are aware of any bugs with Linux/Bitwig handling VST3

Yeah, you have to run wine I think. I'm not sure how well that functions. I'm doing some research to see if Linux is a viable solution to pivot to as an OS. I would prefer to have everything I do in linux. 2 reasons: Mac is retarded expensive and I prefer linux as a development environment.

It would be lush to have my production suite on linux and not look back but... unfortunately companies like NI and RME just don't want to support linux right now with some on the forum boards saying it'll never happen (I'm talking about NI here). What a frustrating read that is. I don't care at all about those people's opinions. What seems to be the case to me is that as a platform Linux has been gaining serious speed so I don't see that going away anytime soon and the desire to switch to Linux will only grow. It's heating up on the forums people asking for linux solutions to their favorite drivers/manufacturer/software. We'll see. Right now I'm stuck on mac. I'll need to update my computer and I'm dreading the day I have to spend 4k on a computer that I can build and put a linux distro on for like 1.5k.

[Proboscis]

I don't care at all about those people's opinions. What seems to be the case to me is that as a platform Linux has been gaining serious speed so I don't see that going away anytime soon and the desire to switch to Linux will only grow.

Hey Brosefski,

This is a 'for conversation' comment only, I'm not dissing your choice in OS. But.... I've heard similar things in discussion from people over 20+ years that 'Linux is on the way up' regarding popularity. And it's always from tech guys. However, the marketshare statistics just don't reflect this, and it's remained at <2% for the past decade, according to two reports I just looked up. With that in mind, I don't see any viability for a company to focus on development for an OS that remains fairly obscure across the world market.

That said, would I like to see it happen ? Hell yes. For me, I'm pretty uncomfortable with the total control we've given over to these major players with regards to data collection. Google have surpassed OS leader Microsoft (in total OS usage stats, over all devices) with Android, and in the next largest OS category of Windows, they have a dominant marketshare of users through Chrome usage. Windows are not much better, with forced updates, the ability to scour your files for what they deem to be dubious content, and a mandatory tie-in with an MS account.

The world NEEDS a safer OS if they are concerned about privacy & data collection, and a Linux distro might be the answer, but when it's so hard to migrate over due to lack of supported software, I can't see the platform ever gaining popularity among mainstream users.

[Brosefski]

Hey Brosefski,

This is a 'for conversation' comment only, I'm not dissing your choice in OS. But.... I've heard similar things in discussion from people over 20+ years that 'Linux is on the way up' regarding popularity. And it's always from tech guys. However, the marketshare statistics just don't reflect this, and it's remained at <2% for the past decade, according to two reports I just looked up. With that in mind, I don't see any viability for a company to focus on development for an OS that remains fairly obscure across the world market.

That said, would I like to see it happen ? Hell yes. For me, I'm pretty uncomfortable with the total control we've given over to these major players with regards to data collection. Google have surpassed OS leader Microsoft (in total OS usage stats, over all devices) with Android, and in the next largest OS category of Windows, they have a dominant marketshare of users through Chrome usage. Windows are not much better, with forced updates, the ability to scour your files for what they deem to be dubious content, and a mandatory tie-in with an MS account.

The world NEEDS a safer OS if they are concerned about privacy & data collection, and a Linux distro might be the answer, but when it's so hard to migrate over due to lack of supported software, I can't see the platform ever gaining popularity among mainstream users.

Hey Proboscis, no worries. The 2% statistic is valid right now from a business standpoint. It's the only real argument anyone can make. The reason I think big companies haven't ported is precisely because of money. The marketshare doesn't reflect how much money they will make in contrast to expenditures in R&D but this also keeps a monopoly on said OS's unfortunately. That said, if I could give the guys over at Bitwig a big hug for their innovative step I would. I'm actually considering buying that as the only other DAW that I care about precisely because it runs on Linux and also because it looks pretty good actually.

Stepping aside for a moment and taking Reason out of scope (I will tie back into Reason in a second, cause I know this is a Reason board. I am aware of such ), I'm not sure how reliable those statistics really are because they're based on hits to specific websites. I know a lot of people who spin up windows on VMs because of work and I know that yes tech students are entirely on linux machines, but the numbers I think are probably a little higher. Not by much granted but I think it's probably higher (totally unscientific, you can take that for a grain of salt ) The thing is, 20 years ago, hell 10 years ago, I did not find Linux mature enough as a desktop application either, for general use let alone for music production, lacking in a lot of software with a higher learning curve for most people giving it that barrier between high end products developed by big companies and what would be available on Linux.

However I think the tide is already changing. Its maturity as a desktop is really here from what I'm gathering. And it can do anything you want now. From a fellow worker and uni student, who's very sharp btw, the only thing that's lacking in Linux is multimedia support at this point. But people are making drivers for the Focusrite 3rd generation audio interfaces for it as we speak (I read it on linux musicians forum). So Bitwig jumped on this bandwagon and it's becoming very appealing.

However I love Reason. Quite a bit, it is my DAW of choice and likely will remain so for years to come but the price point of staying on Mac is extremely unappealing to me. I'm not a windows hater, but I just prefer *nix environments. Tbh I think Microsoft has made very good business decisions in the last decade, turning face completely from their crappy business decisions from the 90's. Making their tech cross compatible and open source is a huge plus for them. You can develop microsoft stuff on linux or mac environments now. Pretty amazing. I know the user numbers are still low for Linux because of the monopoly on the market, but most people that aren't multimedia comprehensive like we are could actually switch to linux and host windows on a vm without a ton of know how anymore and get along just fine. Linux is extremely stable as an OS and does everything you want so I'll wait and see.

It's a little while before I update my music machine so in the meantime I'm tempted to just go ahead and invest in a linux machine first and try it out for a while for music and see if I can't port what I got and try out Reason on it. If Reason made a linux port I'd be all hot bothered to no end. XD Other boards though, even with the moderators chiming in, have been very disappointing reads. I can not understand for the life of me WHY people would be against companies giving Linux a shot for support. Blows my mind. Open the market share, people are there, open up alternative avenues of self expression. I don't see any good reason except for the moulah.

[Brosefski]

That said, would I like to see it happen ? Hell yes. For me, I'm pretty uncomfortable with the total control we've given over to these major players with regards to data collection. Google have surpassed OS leader Microsoft (in total OS usage stats, over all devices) with Android, and in the next largest OS category of Windows, they have a dominant marketshare of users through Chrome usage. Windows are not much better, with forced updates, the ability to scour your files for what they deem to be dubious content, and a mandatory tie-in with an MS account.

The world NEEDS a safer OS if they are concerned about privacy & data collection, and a Linux distro might be the answer, but when it's so hard to migrate over due to lack of supported software, I can't see the platform ever gaining popularity among mainstream users.

Re-reading my post I think I glossed over a quick reply to the data and security aspect. Yes I agree, the lack of data security in both macs and windows bugs me as well. And the security in Linux is definitely better for sure. Mac used to have the boon of being an OS without the security issues that Windows had years back but even on macs this is an issue now. Zero day exploits have identified security flaws in Mac these days with malware and adware to go along with it. Will Linux have these issues if all of a sudden the market share blew up to say 30% even? I don't know. Maybe, but the privacy and security of Linux is a nice feature.

The fact that my every digital footprint is kept in server vaults that can be given out to 3rd parties for marketing and spying reasons is of a concern for me. The facebook debacle has been upsetting. I keep considering completely deleting most of my social media accounts and going back to the old days, you meet me face to face or on a forum and that's about it.

[$(username)]

If you count Android, ChromeOS, TVs, monitors, routers, servers, synths, effects and all of the other gazillion gadgets out there that run Linux then I'd say that that Linux has around 90% market share over all devices with an operating system. 8% may be running Windows and all Apple devices combined are below measurement threshold.

Statistics are nice.

[Brosefski]

If you count Android, ChromeOS, TVs, monitors, routers, servers, synths, effects and all of the other gazillion gadgets out there that run Linux then I'd say that that Linux has around 90% market share over all devices with an operating system. 8% may be running Windows and all Apple devices combined are below measurement threshold.

Statistics are nice.

I think some people don't understand how much of an overlord Linus Torvalds is in the field of computing. Google, Facebook, Twitter: all linux. The vast majority of websites are all run on linux I think with 96.5% of the market from alexa with another statistic putting Linux as the preferred web host at roughly 70% with 30% windows share. And almost ALL the supercomputers in the world run Linux, like 498 out of 500 top supercomputers. Linux is the huge elephant in the room. More like the overlord master in the room.

But when it comes to consumer desktop, Windows and Mac have kept the market and that's about it. Now if Linux started gaining marketshare of desktops I don't think Windows or Mac would ever go away. Windows is heavily trenched in business apps and Mac is well a rich man's toy (and a creative's pain and tears).

The question is will Reason ever port to Linux? I'm assuming if more big companies start utilizing Steinberg's VST3 SDK for Linux that was "quietly" rolled out back in 2017, it's safe to assume Reason will at least consider it. I don't have a crystal ball though. (edit: also if more creative's continue to adopt Linux as their OS as it seems Ubuntu is the officially supported distro for Bitwig and Reaper still being "experiemental" for different flavors)

[Proboscis]

But when it comes to consumer desktop, Windows and Mac have kept the market and that's about it. Now if Linux started gaining marketshare of desktops I don't think Windows or Mac would ever go away. Windows is heavily trenched in business apps and Mac is well a rich man's toy (and a creative's pain and tears).

I tried a few Linux Os in 2018, installed on an old netbook, and settled on Mint, which was also very lightweight. All of the different builds I tried though, did feel pretty old fashioned compared to the slick aspects of Windows & Mac

[Brosefski]

I tried a few Linux Os in 2018, installed on an old netbook, and settled on Mint, which was also very lightweight. All of the different builds I tried though, did feel pretty old fashioned compared to the slick aspects of Windows & Mac

I've worked with linux off and on and it does feel like it's free. lol Yeah I mean Apple has the best interfaces and design, I'm an apple guy, their iPad and iPhone are my favorite gadgets. However I like the price tag of a linux machine and I like the hardware that it runs on, although Apple hardware is great too. I'm OK with dedicating some time to it and considering the jump.

[bxbrkrz]

I feel like you love Apple's OS, but you want to switch to linux, partly because of cost? Why not build a Hackintosh?
Here is a random YT video. I have no idea if this is good enough for a solid pro audio setup for you, but it could be a solution.

[zebbleganubi]

If I use say something like Bitwig on a linux distro, will Reason VST3 plugin work?

i tried using europa vst in bitwig but i couldnt get it to work. i wasnt exactly trying that hard either though so someone else might have better luck. i also searched for a random vst on the internet and chose RoomMachine844. that worked ok enough although it did crash once. with europa i think the problem might be the log in dialog that is probably popping up but it doesnt seem to be visible. i dont have any experience with vst's but im presuming with the reason ones you have to log in at some point?

https://github.com/psycha0s/airwave is what i was using anyway but im not sure if the problem should be fixed with that or on reason's end

im running pop_os (19.10) on a thinkpad x1 yoga (gen 4)

I tried a few Linux Os in 2018, installed on an old netbook, and settled on Mint, which was also very lightweight. All of the different builds I tried though, did feel pretty old fashioned compared to the slick aspects of Windows & Mac

yea theres a few distros ive tried over the years that have an xp feel to them, even mint, but distros like zorin os, elementary and pop os are probably the most modern looking ones around these days and microsoft could learn a thing or two from them. the first setup screen on linux is a good example. theres just 5 or 6 options and youre done. with windows there is just endless screens of things you need to switch off before you can get to the desktop.

[Brosefski]

I feel like you love Apple's OS, but you want to switch to linux, partly because of cost? Why not build a Hackintosh?
Here is a random YT video. I have no idea if this is good enough for a solid pro audio setup for you, but it could be a solution.

It's a nice idea but this probably wouldn't work. The issue with this is the updates. I'm not sure if there's another build for it but unfortunately when you do a hackintosh in the way the video outlines, you're tied down to that specific version of macos. You can't auto update it so the software installed will eventually become obsolete and I won't be able to grow with the latest builds of apps I get that helps my workflow. It would be great if I could update it though. If there's a manual process to keep updating it, it seems like it would be a hassle every time. In the video the guy had issues installing the latest build of macos so that gives me the impression that there will be continual kinks for updates. If my impression is wrong (since Catalina was a flop for a smooth rollout) and updating is easy then it might be worth it.

As far as an apple lover, ehh, I prefer it to windows for sure but that's because of it's dev environment and I think they had design geniuses when it came it it's interface design. I also think they have a very stable ecosystem. The iphone was revolutionary, for better or for worse. They've done a good job, which is why they are so successful. But "love", maybe too strong.

[Brosefski]

i tried using europa vst in bitwig but i couldnt get it to work. i wasnt exactly trying that hard either though so someone else might have better luck. i also searched for a random vst on the internet and chose RoomMachine844. that worked ok enough although it did crash once. with europa i think the problem might be the log in dialog that is probably popping up but it doesnt seem to be visible. i dont have any experience with vst's but im presuming with the reason ones you have to log in at some point?

Not looking good. The VST3 seems to be linked to the app itself when I open it up as a VST in a demo of Bitwig on my mac. It has all my favorite lists and such so, it's sharing data with the installed Reason. I'm not confident it's going to work. I think wine works with windows dll's too, so I'd have to get the windows versions of reason. I don't think it's going to work well. Reason COULD use the VST3 for linux build but it looks like they'd have to build Reason itself as an application that can run on linux and I highly doubt they'll do that any time soon.

I might be stuck with mac. :-/ . BUT I've made my mind up, I'm still going to get a linux machine in the intermediate.

[bxbrkrz]

I feel like you love Apple's OS, but you want to switch to linux, partly because of cost? Why not build a Hackintosh?
Here is a random YT video. I have no idea if this is good enough for a solid pro audio setup for you, but it could be a solution.
-

It's a nice idea but this probably wouldn't work. The issue with this is the updates. I'm not sure if there's another build for it but unfortunately when you do a hackintosh in the way the video outlines, you're tied down to that specific version of macos. You can't auto update it so the software installed will eventually become obsolete and I won't be able to grow with the latest builds of apps I get that helps my workflow. It would be great if I could update it though. If there's a manual process to keep updating it, it seems like it would be a hassle every time. In the video the guy had issues installing the latest build of macos so that gives me the impression that there will be continual kinks for updates. If my impression is wrong (since Catalina was a flop for a smooth rollout) and updating is easy then it might be worth it.

As far as an apple lover, ehh, I prefer it to windows for sure but that's because of it's dev environment and I think they had design geniuses when it came it it's interface design. I also think they have a very stable ecosystem. The iphone was revolutionary, for better or for worse. They've done a good job, which is why they are so successful. But "love", maybe too strong.

I get it.
Ubuntu Studio looks sweet.
https://ubuntustudio.org/

[zebbleganubi]

just messing around with this a bit more. i installed the windows version of bitwig in wine and i was able to open europa, see the dialog window and choose demo. it works ok but you dont get the the multitouch option with the bitwig on-screen keyboard like in the linux version.

then i remember that wine 5.0 was released a few days ago so i upgraded and was able to get europa working with the linux version of bitwig! all of the parameters are showing up in bitwig too. the ui is a bit on the small and the zoom buttons in europa dont work properly but beggars cant be choosers i suppose

now the only thing i need to figure out is the audio. im using pulse-whatever-the-name-is because i couldnt get jack working and the audio is crackling a lot. if i could get that sorted i might upgrade to reason 11 at some point so i can get all the rack gear in bitwig... presuming the rack plugin will work the same as europa

BUT I've made my mind up, I'm still going to get a linux machine in the intermediate.

i switched about 5 months ago now and havnt looked back. the thing that was doing my head in was microsoft taking control over my computer with updates so i run windows in virtualbox now and its much better keeping it at arms length.
when i shut down the windows vm i choose the suspend option and then in only takes about 5 seconds to open up the next time. you could do the same with osx if you are getting machine that is beefy enough to run both. it definitely helps if you want to get into linux to use it as your main computer. i tried for a few years with linux on a second laptop, but after a few days i would run into trouble i would go back to windows and just end up forgetting about linux until the next annoying automatic update.

[jlgrimes]

I would be pretty scared going to Linux as there is still not alot of official support from DAW manufacturers, VST developers, and audio interface drivers.

If I have to install a Windows emulator on it would that defeat the purpose of going Linux (performance increase)?

[Brosefski]

I would be pretty scared going to Linux as there is still not alot of official support from DAW manufacturers, VST developers, and audio interface drivers.

If I have to install a Windows emulator on it would that defeat the purpose of going Linux (performance increase)?

For those of us who don't want to execute esoteric incantations through the command line and just want an installer to double click (most people), then moving to Linux is kinda scary. Moving to linux means you'll likely have to run a command from the command line at some point. And yes, these big wigs still refuse to support at least one flavor of linux (Ubuntu).

What I've done is centralize ALL my music stuff on external hard drives. I can change computers at will at any time. If I just want to try out linux for a time but then switch back, it would be more painless. Least amount of hassle. I'm not backing up btw, rather I use the external hard drive as the place where I save all my songs I work on, all my samples, all my vsts, everything, so that I'm working off my external hard drive instead and using the computer's processing power.

I've been reading up more on wine. It looks like Wine is the way to go. All of NI's stuff works with it on linux. With the latest update of wine it looks like I can also run Reason VST3 on it. That's a big deal. I'm still uncomfortable with bitwig as a DAW from trying out it's demo, but I have no choice until Reason decides to have a linux build. As far as audio interfaces, I can use RME but I can't use some of its features from the special drivers they make for win/mac. I still have to look deeper into that.

[zebbleganubi]

If I have to install a Windows emulator on it would that defeat the purpose of going Linux (performance increase)?

if you do a quick search you can probably find out more info on wine but all i know is that wine is an acronym for "wine is not an emulator". ive seen it mentioned a few times that X game runs better on wine than on windows. i have experienced it myself where the windows software for my 360 camera will crap out after converting 200 or so photos but if i run the software in wine then it manages to convert 900.

it could be the case that most things take performance hit though, im not sure

With the latest update of wine it looks like I can also run Reason VST3 on it

i might have spoke too soon. i upgraded to reason 11 yesterday but after a good few hours of tinkering i still havnt been able to get it working.

theres a file called "Reason Rack Plugin.vst3" in the "Program Files/Common Files/VST3" folder but when i try to add it to airwave like i did with europa it says its invalid. so it basically only lets you select dll files. its a bit of a bummer now because im getting to the point where ive replaced nearly all of the software i need with linux alternatives. it would be a shame to have to have a dual boot system just so i can use all the rack gear ive bought over the years

theres another program called linvst and carla that i still have to try but i dont know the first thing about vst's and the different formats and versions so im just taking shots in the dark really. i went and installed bitwig and reason 11 on a windows computer just to make sure i wasnt missing some important step but the rack shows up there no problem.

[Brosefski]

i might have spoke too soon. i upgraded to reason 11 yesterday but after a good few hours of tinkering i still havnt been able to get it working.

Ah, I might have jumped the gun a bit. That is quite the bummer. I have some rack extensions from Reason but I've put time into investing in VST's so it's not AS big a deal for me, but I do like Reason's synths quite a bit. I have iZotope Ozone too and that seems to have problems in linux.

It's a little frustrating that these big companies don't want builds for linux. I know that as a development environment, Linux is AWESOME. It makes me think these bigger companies have spaghetti code in their business layer tied to OS specifics. To refactor this to support linux would be painful for them. Which I figure is probably why they don't want to move, cost of refactoring code that already works on 2 mainstream OS's to support a smaller percentage of people on an OS that's been the bastard red headed step child of OS's for multimedia support for years, even though the number of folks who want to move is growing and growing.

[EdwardKiy]

I tried a few Linux Os in 2018, installed on an old netbook, and settled on Mint, which was also very lightweight. All of the different builds I tried though, did feel pretty old fashioned compared to the slick aspects of Windows & Mac

How much money will it cost to port Reason to Linux? I mean, really, how much? I would pay something in the ballpark of $49 for the Linux version upgrade for not having to cringe my way through a PC or a Mac experience. I only moved to Linux in the past 5 years, and I'm a doctor, 35, far from a computer nerd, but a PC now feels to me like a woolly mammoth. The only reason I still own a pc is . And I hope it's understandable how irritating it is that I'm forced to buy a bunch of garbage software (literally 0 worth to me) from another company, just so I can run Reason. Not only does this take away from the experience, but don't profit anything from it. I would much rather they let me decide what to do with my money and leave me with a choice to use a free and secure platform. Once again, I would rather pay THEM for this choice, say the aforementioned $49 premium for a Linux version, or whatever works.

Any chances anything like this is ever pitched?

[buddard]

I tried a few Linux Os in 2018, installed on an old netbook, and settled on Mint, which was also very lightweight. All of the different builds I tried though, did feel pretty old fashioned compared to the slick aspects of Windows & Mac

How much money will it cost to port Reason to Linux? I mean, really, how much? I would pay something in the ballpark of $49 for the Linux version upgrade for not having to cringe my way through a PC or a Mac experience. I only moved to Linux in the past 5 years, and I'm a doctor, 35, far from a computer nerd, but a PC now feels to me like a woolly mammoth. The only reason I still own a pc is . And I hope it's understandable how irritating it is that I'm forced to buy a bunch of garbage software (literally 0 worth to me) from another company, just so I can run Reason. Not only does this take away from the experience, but don't profit anything from it. I would much rather they let me decide what to do with my money and leave me with a choice to use a free and secure platform. Once again, I would rather pay THEM for this choice, say the aforementioned $49 premium for a Linux version, or whatever works.

Any chances anything like this is ever pitched?

Seeing that the Linux market share on the desktop is about 2%, I wouldn't hold my breath for a native Linux version...
Also add to that the extra effort to make it run on various distributions and versions.
I think it simply wouldn't make sense from a business perspective.

[Re8et]

lovely thread, keep it up!

[EdwardKiy]

Seeing that the Linux market share on the desktop is about 2%, I wouldn't hold my breath for a native Linux version...
Also add to that the extra effort to make it run on various distributions and versions.
I think it simply wouldn't make sense from a business perspective.

That's kind of the point of what I said, bud. I don't care about the 2% or the 0.2%. As a customer I only care about me and I've got my buddy Wallet to back me up. So, what's the actual cost of a linux portation?

[Jackjackdaw]

"after a good few hours of tinkering i still havnt been able to get it working. "

This sentence right here says to me that Linux is in exactly the same place it's always been as a consumer desktop os.