How: Selig Gain on every track

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groggy1
Posts: 378
Joined: 10 Jun 2015

Post 13 Jan 2020

I find myself loading Selig gain on nearly every instrument I load, to dial-in the right levels.

I like doing that instead of pushing the faders up, so that everything is pretty much level - and then I use the mixer's faders for minor tweaks in the mixing phase.

So... Is there any way to tell Reason that I want it to load *every* instrument with Selig gain chained after it? OR even better, I wish it would do that if I held down Control while creating the instrument, or something.


I.e. I wish I could have effects (RE or VST) that alter instruments at load-time, and depending on which key I'm holding down, it'll load a different effects chain.


Any thoughts on how to do this, or come close?

Bes
Posts: 280
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Post 13 Jan 2020

if it was two or more extra rack extensions everytime then you'd save it all into a combinator patch and just open that instead but for one single RE? no don't bother imo

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raymondh
Posts: 1273
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 13 Jan 2020

groggy1 wrote:
13 Jan 2020
I find myself loading Selig gain on nearly every instrument I load, to dial-in the right levels.

I like doing that instead of pushing the faders up, so that everything is pretty much level - and then I use the mixer's faders for minor tweaks in the mixing phase.

So... Is there any way to tell Reason that I want it to load *every* instrument with Selig gain chained after it? OR even better, I wish it would do that if I held down Control while creating the instrument, or something.


I.e. I wish I could have effects (RE or VST) that alter instruments at load-time, and depending on which key I'm holding down, it'll load a different effects chain.


Any thoughts on how to do this, or come close?
I find it a great idea when I want to automate the track level. I automate Selig Gain and then I can still use the master channel fader for mixing.
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MrFigg
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Post 13 Jan 2020

groggy1 wrote:
13 Jan 2020
I find myself loading Selig gain on nearly every instrument I load, to dial-in the right levels.

I like doing that instead of pushing the faders up, so that everything is pretty much level - and then I use the mixer's faders for minor tweaks in the mixing phase.

So... Is there any way to tell Reason that I want it to load *every* instrument with Selig gain chained after it? OR even better, I wish it would do that if I held down Control while creating the instrument, or something.


I.e. I wish I could have effects (RE or VST) that alter instruments at load-time, and depending on which key I'm holding down, it'll load a different effects chain.


Any thoughts on how to do this, or come close?
I might be misunderstanding you but why don’t you take your first instrument, load in Gain after you’ve got all your fx and then adjust the levels to -11dB or whatever the “magic number” is and then move on to your next instrument and just move the original Gain to that chain? That’s what Selig does if I remember correctly. Basically just moving the same Gain around all your tracks.
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groggy1
Posts: 378
Joined: 10 Jun 2015

Post 13 Jan 2020

MrFigg wrote:
13 Jan 2020
groggy1 wrote:
13 Jan 2020
I find myself loading Selig gain on nearly every instrument I load, to dial-in the right levels.

I like doing that instead of pushing the faders up, so that everything is pretty much level - and then I use the mixer's faders for minor tweaks in the mixing phase.

So... Is there any way to tell Reason that I want it to load *every* instrument with Selig gain chained after it? OR even better, I wish it would do that if I held down Control while creating the instrument, or something.


I.e. I wish I could have effects (RE or VST) that alter instruments at load-time, and depending on which key I'm holding down, it'll load a different effects chain.


Any thoughts on how to do this, or come close?
I might be misunderstanding you but why don’t you take your first instrument, load in Gain after you’ve got all your fx and then adjust the levels to -11dB or whatever the “magic number” is and then move on to your next instrument and just move the original Gain to that chain? That’s what Selig does if I remember correctly. Basically just moving the same Gain around all your tracks.
Doesn’t moving it to a new instrument alter the volume of the original instrument? (Or did you mean copy it?)

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 13 Jan 2020

Template tracks would be great to have, indeed.

EdGrip
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Post 13 Jan 2020

groggy1 wrote:
13 Jan 2020
Doesn’t moving it to a new instrument alter the volume of the original instrument? (Or did you mean copy it?)
No, they mean using the output volume control of the last device in the chain that has one, to set the gain for that channel (most have one, some don't). You just use the Selig Gain as a meter probe while you set the level.
The problem with doing it this way is if you decide to add a new device to the chain, or re-order the existing devices, and in doing so significantly alter the level, you have to do the process again. Also depending on your last device, setting the output gain before it may alter its behaviour. (Take Softube Saturation Knob as an example - it has no output gain - ergh - and if you drop the output gain of the device before it, you alter the saturation from Saturation Knob.)

So given how CPU-light Selig Gains are, I say just leave them where you put them.

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Zac
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Post 13 Jan 2020

You could try creating a new output bus for your channel and put Gain as an insert in that bus then set your level using one of the devices in your chain (instrument or compressor etc) then disconnect from the gain bus and reconnect for your next instrument etc.
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Loque
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Post 13 Jan 2020

I have no need for any such tasks. I create the tracks individually by their needs. And regarding Selig Gain, i add them as needed and remove them ASAP, because it eatens up to much resources for just metering. If the level is ok and i do not change it, i remove it. I leave it, if i use it for changing settings.

And btw: you can save/load mix channels and Combinators.
Last edited by Loque on 13 Jan 2020, edited 1 time in total.
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groggy1
Posts: 378
Joined: 10 Jun 2015

Post 13 Jan 2020

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
13 Jan 2020
Template tracks would be great to have, indeed.
Yes, this is what I need I think.
It's not a blocker for me, but would be nice

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gullum
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Post 13 Jan 2020

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
13 Jan 2020
Template tracks would be great to have, indeed.
you can have Template tracks
in the File menu you have "new from template" you can save to that folder so you get new custom templates in there

on Mac the templates are located in "Users/*your name*/Music/Reason/Template Songs"

PhillipOrdonez
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Location: Colombia

Post 13 Jan 2020

gullum wrote:
13 Jan 2020
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
13 Jan 2020
Template tracks would be great to have, indeed.
you can have Template tracks
in the File menu you have "new from template" you can save to that folder so you get new custom templates in there

on Mac the templates are located in "Users/*your name*/Music/Reason/Template Songs"
Template tracks or mix channels. Not template projects :)

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orthodox
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Post 13 Jan 2020

I use the Reason Mixer only for a draft mix. Then I export channel/bus stems and do the mixing in Cakewalk. There I have track templates, channel hiding, mix scenes and many other workflow benefits. I only wish Reason would finally support exporting/bouncing channels to 32 bit WAV files, because for now I must be constantly beware of clipping on each channel.
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Arrant
Posts: 309
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 14 Jan 2020

I'm in the same situation as the OP and would definitely like to have mixer channel templates. Either an option where you can set every new mix channel to always contain a given set of user-defined plugins and settings, or that you can f.ex. ctrl-click when adding a new channel and select from several templates.

This is not the same as song templates, for those of you who have mentioned that. Imagine for example that you favour your own channel strip over the built-in Reason EQ/omp and would like to have this strip loaded by default.
Personally I want Selig Gain as the last insert on each channel. I also want a limiter before that and more often than not a Synapse GQ-7 before that. Now I have to set up those plugins for each new mix channel. Thankfully I can load the plugin set as a combinator patch, but it is an extra step which could be eliminated.

chaosroyale
Posts: 334
Joined: 05 Sep 2017

Post 14 Jan 2020

If you export stems at 24bit there should be absolutely no reason for you to worry about clipping - just drop the channels by about 20dB each if you need the headroom. At 24 bit the SNR is so high there is no need to go anywhere NEAR zero dB.
orthodox wrote:
13 Jan 2020
I use the Reason Mixer only for a draft mix. Then I export channel/bus stems and do the mixing in Cakewalk. There I have track templates, channel hiding, mix scenes and many other workflow benefits. I only wish Reason would finally support exporting/bouncing channels to 32 bit WAV files, because for now I must be constantly beware of clipping on each channel.

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orthodox
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Post 14 Jan 2020

chaosroyale wrote:
14 Jan 2020
If you export stems at 24bit there should be absolutely no reason for you to worry about clipping - just drop the channels by about 20dB each if you need the headroom. At 24 bit the SNR is so high there is no need to go anywhere NEAR zero dB.
Yes, that's what I do, but it's a bit inconvenient.
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Boombastix
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Location: Bay Area, CA

Post 14 Jan 2020

My tip for this would be:
1. Set up one mix channel in your song template that you like. Then for each new mix channel you make, select the REs and then Ctrl+Shift and copy (mouse drag) them to each new channel. This make a copy of all selected REs, no need to browse for each of them.
2. Or, set up a template that has 6 to 8, or whatever you need, of mix channels populated with your REs, yes you need to load in a synth too. So for that I would use Thor with all modules removed, uses very little CPU when Thor is totally empty.
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challism
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Post 14 Jan 2020

I think your best solution is to just preload as many Mix channels with Gains as you want into a song and save the song as a template (RSNDEMO file type). Then load the template into your template folder (in the C drive music folder). I have attached a template file you can just unzip and load into your template folder. When you load the template song, just drag and drop whatever instrument you want underneath the Mix channel interface. Reason will automatically hook up the cables.

Template song files are amazing. I have some very complex setups that I have saved as templates and they save me a LOT of time.
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chaosroyale
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Post 14 Jan 2020

You want the moon on a stick, you do! ;)
orthodox wrote:
14 Jan 2020
chaosroyale wrote:
14 Jan 2020
If you export stems at 24bit there should be absolutely no reason for you to worry about clipping - just drop the channels by about 20dB each if you need the headroom. At 24 bit the SNR is so high there is no need to go anywhere NEAR zero dB.
Yes, that's what I do, but it's a bit inconvenient.

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TheGodOfRainbows
Posts: 462
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Post 15 Jan 2020

raymondh wrote:
13 Jan 2020
I find it a great idea when I want to automate the track level. I automate Selig Gain and then I can still use the master channel fader for mixing.
I really like this idea! That's the trouble with automating the levels for transitions and for adding movement to the mix. In order to raise the overall volume after having made several automation events, I would select all the automation points and bring them up or down, which is inconvenient.

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Benedict
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Location: Gold Coast, Australia

Post 15 Jan 2020

Don't forget that there is a Gain knob up the top of the SSL. This does exactly what you are looking for. I will set a Mix up with all the Faders at 0db using the Gains then if I need Automation during the actual mix, my Faders are free to fly. It doesn't look very mixery with all the sliders at unity but is a perfectly sane practice.

Now Selig's Gain is a mighty replacement for the SSL Gain Knob, but yes you do need to insert it.

I am not at all convinced that you want to insert that in the Insert box as by default that is After the Gain, Dynamics, etc on the SSL. I would (and do) use Selig Gain under the Instrument so it shows as Thor>Selig Gain>SSL Gain>Dynamics>Insert Box...

As for how to get them there as a default, I think that this would do more damage than good. My logic here is that while Templates with all your first decisions laid out seem very attractive, they also take away the core decisions for your project. If every Reason instance opens with Drums, Bass, Guitar, Kazoo... what if your song was going to want to start with a Koto but the formula is already telling you that you start everything with Drums, Bass, Guitar, Kazoo?

You could, of course, start with Kong>Selig Gain, Reason Bass NN-XT>Selig Gain, JP's Telecaster NN-XT>Selig Gain, Kazoo VST>Selig Gain.. and if you decide that the bass should be a 36' Koto then Drag & Drop the Koto Plugin on top of the Reason Bass NN-XT.

:-)

groggy1
Posts: 378
Joined: 10 Jun 2015

Post 15 Jan 2020

Benedict wrote:
15 Jan 2020
Don't forget that there is a Gain knob up the top of the SSL. This does exactly what you are looking for. I will set a Mix up with all the Faders at 0db using the Gains then if I need Automation during the actual mix, my Faders are free to fly. It doesn't look very mixery with all the sliders at unity but is a perfectly sane practice.

Now Selig's Gain is a mighty replacement for the SSL Gain Knob, but yes you do need to insert it.

I am not at all convinced that you want to insert that in the Insert box as by default that is After the Gain, Dynamics, etc on the SSL. I would (and do) use Selig Gain under the Instrument so it shows as Thor>Selig Gain>SSL Gain>Dynamics>Insert Box...

As for how to get them there as a default, I think that this would do more damage than good. My logic here is that while Templates with all your first decisions laid out seem very attractive, they also take away the core decisions for your project. If every Reason instance opens with Drums, Bass, Guitar, Kazoo... what if your song was going to want to start with a Koto but the formula is already telling you that you start everything with Drums, Bass, Guitar, Kazoo?

You could, of course, start with Kong>Selig Gain, Reason Bass NN-XT>Selig Gain, JP's Telecaster NN-XT>Selig Gain, Kazoo VST>Selig Gain.. and if you decide that the bass should be a 36' Koto then Drag & Drop the Koto Plugin on top of the Reason Bass NN-XT.

:-)
Huh. There’s a gain knob on the ssl mixer? I don’t believe you. ;) will go check now, but if that’s there, I just learned something.

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Ahornberg
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Post 15 Jan 2020

groggy1 wrote:
15 Jan 2020
Huh. There’s a gain knob on the ssl mixer? I don’t believe you. ;) will go check now, but if that’s there, I just learned something.
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orthodox
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Post 15 Jan 2020

groggy1 wrote:
15 Jan 2020
Huh. There’s a gain knob on the ssl mixer? I don’t believe you. ;) will go check now, but if that’s there, I just learned something.
Unfortunately, it controls the input gain of a channel, so if the channel contains a non-linear effect (e.g. compressor), it is not a substitute of the channel fader.
Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise. -- L.Carroll

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Benedict
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Post 15 Jan 2020

orthodox wrote:
15 Jan 2020
groggy1 wrote:
15 Jan 2020
Huh. There’s a gain knob on the ssl mixer? I don’t believe you. ;) will go check now, but if that’s there, I just learned something.
Unfortunately, it controls the input gain of a channel, so if the channel contains a non-linear effect (e.g. compressor), it is not a substitute of the channel fader.
In that case yes indeed, which is why I will arrange things Thor>Compressor>SSL Mixer.
That way my desired signal is not changed by Gain.

:-)

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