If modular is the future....
One thing that I wouldn't know how to cope with if I was designing a modular synth in Reason cable infrastructure. It's instrument voice processing modules, because they actually stand for several instances, one for each voice, and cables between them would have to be able to conduct multiple channels of audio.
Oh yea, I didn't even get into that because I assumed monophonic modular (like Eurorack). Reaktor and others allow poly voice audio to be shared between modules, Reason does not, and there would still be potential timing issues between modules as I understand it (someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this!).orthodox wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020One thing that I wouldn't know how to cope with if I was designing a modular synth in Reason cable infrastructure. It's instrument voice processing modules, because they actually stand for several instances, one for each voice, and cables between them would have to be able to conduct multiple channels of audio.
Selig Audio, LLC
If the connection graph does not contain cycles, feedback loops, it can be solved by delay compensation. (Again, i may be wrong on this, too).
Right, RS may have yuge plans for rack extensions, now that the rack is a vst!
I'm hoping this is the case!
My 'opinion' : I think rack extensions are fanfreakingtastic!
But, they are not tradable, and therefore not a store of value. Development has slowed, and stopped in some cases. I can understand why people would not be happy with the situation.
Till things get better, I suggest we make do with what we have. Which is awesome!!!
r11s
Yes, but it gets more complex when CV also needs to be compensated, especially if you allow totally free patching as in a real modular. These things work fine in a single instrument like Complex-1, but things become exponentially trickier in the Rack. File under "don't hold your breath for this to be addressed…".
Selig Audio, LLC
Apologies. I think I thought I was replying to another comment. But thanks for outlining the limitations of the platform. Looks like the hurdles are far greater than they appear. Good to hear your thoughts as someone who probably knows the SDK inside out.selig wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020You may have missed the part where I mentioned technical limitations keeping folks from fully embracing what you describe. Nothing more, nothing less IMO. Again, the missed opportunity was back when Reason was designed. The "batch delay" between all devices is but one reason why you can't build true modular systems in the Reason rack, and this affects CV as well as audio. The lack of adjusting the CV rate to allow audio rate modulation is another, which could be worked around by using audio jacks and dropping CV jacks.Rackman wrote: ↑08 Jan 2020I think the idea that to do modular properly you have to have cables in the front is a misnomer. All the tools are there for Reason to have a great modular ecosystem, but although there are plenty of simple CV utils, REs (for the most part) haven't captured the real beauty of modular which is a variety of interoperable modules that are focussed on doing one (or a small subset) of things really well, or interestingly. There are lots of great oscillators and filters, but other than that the pickings are pretty slim. The noise engineering stuff is great, because they don't try and do everything (or even many things). Compare the list of VCV modules which have blossomed in a really short space of time: https://vcvrack.com/plugins.
I think the missed opportunely is that Propellerhead didn't embrace or encourage it. As I said above, I think this is because they are focussed on big-ticket romplers that maximise profit with minimal development. What is a shame is that 3rd party devs haven't taken much advantage of the absence of competition, but I think that stems from a much bigger problem - lack of confidence in the platform, and (as far as I understand it) a frustrating SDK with few updates. Software development is an expensive business, but I guess it shows what a small ecosystem this is that so few developers have embraced it, and so many have abandoned it.
My comments had nothing to do with cables on the front, confidence with the platform, etc. One of my very first ideas for Selig Audio way back in 2013 was a modular based system which I've posted here in the past. Others have considered it (and even announced it) then dropped out after researching the subject. This was YEARS ago, btw, not recently. I can't speak for the others, but for me I simply wasn't able to achieve what I wanted with the current limitations in the way Reason passes audio around in the rack, which has nothing to do with the RE SDK, ecosystem, or expense!
It certainly would need another totally different sdk but I’ve been thinking that a way for 3rd parties to add new oscillators, filters or whatever inside of a « semi-modular shell » such as Thor would be great.
It would have been cool if Reason Studios could develop a solution so that devices within a Combinator sync to the same batch somehow.selig wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020The "batch delay" between all devices is but one reason why you can't build true modular systems in the Reason rack, and this affects CV as well as audio. The lack of adjusting the CV rate to allow audio rate modulation is another, which could be worked around by using audio jacks and dropping CV jacks.
VK-2 Viking Synthesizer was designed as a modular system, similar to i.e. the Moog Modular Model 10/15
Although the default state is routed (for it to make some sort of standard sound) you can totally break the routing. Also if you enable Modular mode in the Poly settings, the oscillators and noise will drone continuously (i.e. if you route an oscillators raw output directly to a mix input. This is useful if you are using several instances of VK-2 in a Combinator, and want to route the oscillators directly into another filter, or another device for that matter.
It is also one of few devices that offers all waveforms of the oscillators and LFOs simultaneously, which greatly expands the modulation possibilities, imho (example, you can route LFO1 square to filter while at the same time routing LFO1 triangle to the pwm of oscillator 1).
The reason for doing it as a complete system and not stand alone modules (apart from the latency problem) was the benefit of being able to saving complete patches and offering polyphony.
VK-2 can be CPU intensive though, especially with polyphony and high quality settings enabled, but it is one of my go to instruments when it comes to analogue flavor, and that is including various VST offerings in the comparison.
Although the default state is routed (for it to make some sort of standard sound) you can totally break the routing. Also if you enable Modular mode in the Poly settings, the oscillators and noise will drone continuously (i.e. if you route an oscillators raw output directly to a mix input. This is useful if you are using several instances of VK-2 in a Combinator, and want to route the oscillators directly into another filter, or another device for that matter.
It is also one of few devices that offers all waveforms of the oscillators and LFOs simultaneously, which greatly expands the modulation possibilities, imho (example, you can route LFO1 square to filter while at the same time routing LFO1 triangle to the pwm of oscillator 1).
The reason for doing it as a complete system and not stand alone modules (apart from the latency problem) was the benefit of being able to saving complete patches and offering polyphony.
VK-2 can be CPU intensive though, especially with polyphony and high quality settings enabled, but it is one of my go to instruments when it comes to analogue flavor, and that is including various VST offerings in the comparison.
This is how I imagine Complex-2....all the complex-1 and complex-2 modules + the ability for third parties to also make modules.eXode wrote: ↑11 Jan 2020It would have been cool if Reason Studios could develop a solution so that devices within a Combinator sync to the same batch somehow.selig wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020The "batch delay" between all devices is but one reason why you can't build true modular systems in the Reason rack, and this affects CV as well as audio. The lack of adjusting the CV rate to allow audio rate modulation is another, which could be worked around by using audio jacks and dropping CV jacks.
r11s
Is Complex-1 the best solution/compromise from Reason's technical limitations for going full modular right now?
A compromised hybrid solution (if the answer is yes):
Have the RS Store giving you the option of designing your modular system, cloud based at first, and from a specific number of modules. Another limitation could be the size of your modular system within the rack.
You could then try it from your web browser (that RS tech already exists somewhat) until you are satisfied with how it looks and sounds.
Then you go and click on "BUY". Once you do this, your unique system will then be "baked forever" into one RE, the result would be your homemade "Complex-1 based platform".
To me that would be the future.
A compromised hybrid solution (if the answer is yes):
Have the RS Store giving you the option of designing your modular system, cloud based at first, and from a specific number of modules. Another limitation could be the size of your modular system within the rack.
You could then try it from your web browser (that RS tech already exists somewhat) until you are satisfied with how it looks and sounds.
Then you go and click on "BUY". Once you do this, your unique system will then be "baked forever" into one RE, the result would be your homemade "Complex-1 based platform".
To me that would be the future.
757365206C6F67696320746F207365656B20616E73776572732075736520726561736F6E20746F2066696E6420776973646F6D20676574206F7574206F6620796F757220636F6D666F7274207A6F6E65206F7220796F757220696E737069726174696F6E2077696C6C206372797374616C6C697A6520666F7265766572
yeah!!!bxbrkrz wrote: ↑11 Jan 2020Is Complex-1 the best solution/compromise from Reason's technical limitations for going full modular right now?
A compromised hybrid solution (if the answer is yes):
Have the RS Store giving you the option of designing your modular system, cloud based at first, and from a specific number of modules. Another limitation could be the size of your modular system within the rack.
You could then try it from your web browser (that RS tech already exists somewhat) until you are satisfied with how it looks and sounds.
Then you go and click on "BUY". Once you do this, your unique system will then be "baked forever" into one RE, the result would be your homemade "Complex-1 based platform".
To me that would be the future.
+custom knobs, switches, sliders, face plates, skins....colors...textures...etc. etc.
I was instantly reminded of the xbox design lab: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/c ... 77R3L:K51T
r11s
I wasn't going that far to be honest, at first. But yeah the end game will be +custom knobs, switches, sliders, face plates, skins....colors...textures...etc. etc.BRIGGS wrote: ↑11 Jan 2020yeah!!!bxbrkrz wrote: ↑11 Jan 2020Is Complex-1 the best solution/compromise from Reason's technical limitations for going full modular right now?
A compromised hybrid solution (if the answer is yes):
Have the RS Store giving you the option of designing your modular system, cloud based at first, and from a specific number of modules. Another limitation could be the size of your modular system within the rack.
You could then try it from your web browser (that RS tech already exists somewhat) until you are satisfied with how it looks and sounds.
Then you go and click on "BUY". Once you do this, your unique system will then be "baked forever" into one RE, the result would be your homemade "Complex-1 based platform".
To me that would be the future.
+custom knobs, switches, sliders, face plates, skins....colors...textures...etc. etc.
I was instantly reminded of the xbox design lab: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/c ... 77R3L:K51T
One day. We can only hope!
757365206C6F67696320746F207365656B20616E73776572732075736520726561736F6E20746F2066696E6420776973646F6D20676574206F7574206F6620796F757220636F6D666F7274207A6F6E65206F7220796F757220696E737069726174696F6E2077696C6C206372797374616C6C697A6520666F7265766572
The MI stuff would be great, but it would be amazing if more Noise Engineering's stuff made it to RE format. Mimetic Digitalis would be SO much fun in an RE!
I've talked to the 4ms guys at Knobcon in the past, and it's not really on their horizon, but QPLFO and PEG would also be neat. Really anything based on a digital/virtual platform should be a no-brainer to put into RE format.
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