HiDPI scaling has to be round the corner right?

[kinkujin]

I genuinely expected a visual update in v10, and with it also absent in v11, I'm just going to forget about it until it actually drops and continue to use Reason in the fuzzy, slightly janky "Low Res" mode on Mac - because isn't that what Reason is all about? Workarounds.

Yes, agreed.

[kimothebeatmaker]

I started my trial of Reason11 and to my disappointment, the GUI is still choppy and laggy on HiDpi mode, and the low resolution option looks blurry...I don't like seeing drunk without being drunk...I hope they do address it, maybe when they release the AU version

[Faastwalker]

We need this. It's long overdue. I'm not interested in the technical difficulties involved. That's not our problem. We just pay the money & the use the software. But it needs to happen sooner rather than later with hi-res displays becoming the norm. Before long the Reason rack is going to look like a stamp collection on hi-res displays. I can cope with it on my 2K monitor. But I reckon that's the limit.

[kuhliloach]

It's being left chunky on purpose--to attract more Minecraft players.

[guitfnky]

We need this. It's long overdue. I'm not interested in the technical difficulties involved. That's not our problem. We just pay the money & the use the software. But it needs to happen sooner rather than later with hi-res displays becoming the norm. Before long the Reason rack is going to look like a stamp collection on hi-res displays. I can cope with it on my 2K monitor. But I reckon that's the limit.

I use it on 4k, and it’s fine, but only because it’s a 43 inch TV I bought to replace multiple monitors. the pixel density is about the same as it was for my much smaller 1080p monitor, which is to say it’s usable, but on the verge of straining my eyes. I’m really surprised high DPI scaling isn’t industry-standard yet.

[fieldframe]

Given its poor performance even at legacy DPI, it's clear Reason's entire UI layer is going to have to be rewritten for a hiDPI rack to be possible. My conspiracy theory is that the things standing in the way are all the original, pre-Rack Extension devices from Subtractor to Kong, because they were written in a way where the UI logic is not separated from the UI rendering code (maybe it's even mixed in with the DSP code ). So it's not just porting the rack to modern rendering frameworks, but also porting all the old Reason devices, either to integrate natively with the new UI or to Rack Extensions. If it did come down to that, the latter would be the most long-term viable option, and there are still things the original rack devices do (like collapsable sections) that the SDK doesn't support, so it would be anyone's guess how far into the future hiDPI might yet be.

Hopefully that's not the case, though, and we'll see Reason's UI code get the same overhaul in Reason 11.x that Reason's DSP code got in 10.x.

[Aquila]

Given its poor performance even at legacy DPI, it's clear Reason's entire UI layer is going to have to be rewritten for a hiDPI rack to be possible. My conspiracy theory is that the things standing in the way are all the original, pre-Rack Extension devices from Subtractor to Kong, because they were written in a way where the UI logic is not separated from the UI rendering code (maybe it's even mixed in with the DSP code ). So it's not just porting the rack to modern rendering frameworks, but also porting all the old Reason devices, either to integrate natively with the new UI or to Rack Extensions. If it did come down to that, the latter would be the most long-term viable option, and there are still things the original rack devices do (like collapsable sections) that the SDK doesn't support, so it would be anyone's guess how far into the future hiDPI might yet be.

Hopefully that's not the case, though, and we'll see Reason's UI code get the same overhaul in Reason 11.x that Reason's DSP code got in 10.x.

That is probably one of the most sensible theories I've read on the issue so far. I'd be willing to believe that, if only Props/RS would be a little more open about it.

[Ermitage]

P.S. @Proboscis: Isn't that the Yamaha logo?

Yamaha will be releasing Reason 12 once the investment company owners turn a quick profit, and flog the software off to the highest bidder.

Was thinking Bethesda would be a better fit in terms of company values.

[xboix]

I think the biggest obstacle is that it would require every single RE developer to update their REs for no reward.
And some of the developers are no longer active.

[dhruan]

I think the biggest obstacle is that it would require every single RE developer to update their REs for no reward.
And some of the developers are no longer active.

REs are scalable by default (vector based with high res bitmaps for textures). It is the old stock devices & UIs that are the problem.

[Jackjackdaw]

I think if the legacy devices cant keep up then they should be retired.

[fieldframe]

I think if the legacy devices cant keep up then they should be retired.

Imagine the reaction to the Line 6 devices being removed, but times 100.

[scratchnsnifff]

I think if the legacy devices cant keep up then they should be retired.

Imagine the reaction to the Line 6 devices being removed, but times 100.

I swear, If someone comes for my malström....
Or Thor!
Scream4 or anything else.

[chaosroyale]

Agreed!!

Meaning: if GUI/performance problems are related to legacy devices not being in the new "RE" format, they should be RE-MADE as REs (and, hopefully, updated) so that people can keep using the devices they love, but without the drawbacks.

People who want to open their old projects can use a previous version of Reason, it is perfectly possible to install both versions on one PC. No point holding back the new versions for nostalgia. I'm happy to re-do my Scream4 or subtractor patches by hand if it means improving the overall performance of the software. (if they want to make it easier on people - include all the legacy devices in a "legacy" category- with a wrapper which displays the blurry bitmaps, but at least allows you to load in your old patches and then copy them to the new devices).

I think if the legacy devices cant keep up then they should be retired.

[scratchnsnifff]

Agreed!!

Meaning: if GUI/performance problems are related to legacy devices not being in the new "RE" format, they should be RE-MADE as REs (and, hopefully, updated) so that people can keep using the devices they love, but without the drawbacks.

People who want to open their old projects can use a previous version of Reason, it is perfectly possible to install both versions on one PC. No point holding back the new versions for nostalgia. I'm happy to re-do my Scream4 or subtractor patches by hand if it means improving the overall performance of the software. (if they want to make it easier on people - include all the legacy devices in a "legacy" category- with a wrapper which displays the blurry bitmaps, but at least allows you to load in your old patches and then copy them to the new devices).

I think if the legacy devices cant keep up then they should be retired.

I’m on board with this.
I wouldn’t want my favorite devices to be deleted forever!

But if they just re did them using the new sdk, that would be the way to do it!

I’d love to see the same grain table algorithms but with a user sample option.

Or Thor but with MSEG’s and user table oscillators

Maybe even a grain oscillator from grain
It’s all possible, but they would have to want to do it

Idk what their deal is with legacy device updates

They appear to go by the model of making a device, and only updating it within that same year

Then it’s on to the next device.
There are exceptions, Like all the sample based devices getting the option of recording directly into them

So that tells me it’s entirely possible

[fieldframe]

Idk what their deal is with legacy device updates

They appear to go by the model of making a device, and only updating it within that same year

Then it’s on to the next device.
There are exceptions, Like all the sample based devices getting the option of recording directly into them

So that tells me it’s entirely possible

My guess is that the legacy devices are much more expensive to update because their codebases are idiosyncratic compared to the standardized RE architecture. To update an RE, you need a C++ developer who can get up to speed with the SDK, whereas to update something like Malström, you need someone who can dive deep into Peter Jubel's original code from the early 2000s, which may or may not be clearly commented or documented.

[chaosroyale]

Updating the "orignal" Malstrom would be a huge pain in the ass, certainly.

But re-creating the Malstrom as an RE (or even as a VST "modeled instrument" for the sake of the thought experiment) would not be so hard. There's nothing especially unusual in its feature set by modern standards. Reason studios already know the specs of the filters, waveshaper, granularity of the oscillators, etc, which makes them easy to slot in. They have all the original samples.

Same for the other devices.

Seriously, guys; do it! Malstrom with sample loading? Should have been a thing 10 years ago!! Its combination of ease-of-use and quirkiness would STILL make it a go-to synth in a world of MassiveX or Serum.

Letting everything stagnate until Massive XI or Serum II exist? I think everyone will have moved on..

Idk what their deal is with legacy device updates

They appear to go by the model of making a device, and only updating it within that same year

Then it’s on to the next device.
There are exceptions, Like all the sample based devices getting the option of recording directly into them

So that tells me it’s entirely possible

My guess is that the legacy devices are much more expensive to update because their codebases are idiosyncratic compared to the standardized RE architecture. To update an RE, you need a C++ developer who can get up to speed with the SDK, whereas to update something like Malström, you need someone who can dive deep into Peter Jubel's original code from the early 2000s, which may or may not be clearly commented or documented.

[chaosroyale]

By the way; I hope this thread helps the "why do you hate Reason" crowd to understand some user's frustrations. As my comments about Malstrom should make clear - i LOVE that synth, that's precisely why it is so painful watching Reason slipping further behind the competition.

Malstrom and Thor are, for my money, the last *great* synths in Reason, but Malstrom came out in 2002. ...2002!!!! And no updates since.

Thor was awesome for 2007 but don't forget Massive came out in the same year and shook up the VST market. That was the beginning of the end of Reason having "the best synths" compared to other DAWs.

Since then.. Well, Europa is good - with the sample loading update it's better than the built-in wavetable synths of any other DAW - but it was late to the party. Grain is really nice, but plenty of other built-in or very cheap granular sampler/synths have the same capabilities and are just as easy to use.

The same can be said for the FX. Although I was very glad to see the updated filter/phaser/chorus units. From around 2010 until now, the idea of Reason having cutting edge, great-sounding devices has fallen further and further into a nostalgic vision of the past. This is why some of us say we really DON'T need "more" devices, we need updates.

[supalurker]

I've been posting about this since 2016...don't think it will ever happen.