Reason 11 - Rack Delay Comp Issues, Can Anyone Confirm
Saw this on Gearslutz: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-pro ... ble-5.html
"Originally Posted by Studio Saturn
I have to tell you this thing is not ready for release. If you examine carefully, it looks like the plugin doesn't report DAWs how much delay compensation has to be done. And when you put it on send, you get something like a comp effect."
And then further down he makes this claim:
"I did further investigation this plugin doesn't even tell DAWs delay compensation either insert or send"
I can't test this because there is no AU version of the rack.
So is this true or what?
"Originally Posted by Studio Saturn
I have to tell you this thing is not ready for release. If you examine carefully, it looks like the plugin doesn't report DAWs how much delay compensation has to be done. And when you put it on send, you get something like a comp effect."
And then further down he makes this claim:
"I did further investigation this plugin doesn't even tell DAWs delay compensation either insert or send"
I can't test this because there is no AU version of the rack.
So is this true or what?
Last edited by hurricane on 06 Oct 2019, edited 1 time in total.
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Please somebody who can test this now confirm
Check out this thread on Gearslutz. Confirmation of no delay compensation reporting from the plugin:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-pro ... lable.html
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-pro ... lable.html
wreaking havoc with since 2.5
https://soundcloud.com/nekujak-donnay/sets
https://soundcloud.com/nekujak-donnay/sets
That's the link I posted and where I got this info from.
Haven't done an extensive test, but I haven't noticed anything.hurricane wrote: ↑06 Oct 2019Saw this on Gearslutz: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-pro ... ble-5.html
"Originally Posted by Studio Saturn
I have to tell you this thing is not ready for release. If you examine carefully, it looks like the plugin doesn't report DAWs how much delay compensation has to be done. And when you put it on send, you get something like a comp effect."
And then further down he makes this claim:
"I did further investigation this plugin doesn't even tell DAWs delay compensation either insert or send"
I can't test this because their is no AU version of the rack.
So is this true or what?
Oops, sorry - didn't catch that. But I believe there are recent posts in that thread from at least one person who has confirmed it.
wreaking havoc with since 2.5
https://soundcloud.com/nekujak-donnay/sets
https://soundcloud.com/nekujak-donnay/sets
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Apparently, according to my very quick test.... It's true
Well that's not good.
From what I'm reading around the web, non-Reason users were initially stoked by the Reason 11 / Rack VST announcement, but now due to the lack of latency reporting and a few other blatant oversights, enthusiasm is rapidly waning, and in some cases, turning ugly.
Key complaints are:
- Lack of latency reporting
- Inability to route MIDI out of the Rack VST
- Inability for the Rack VST to host 3rd party VST plugins (can't Combinate)
- Lack of VST3 support in Reason 11
I have no dog in this hunt since Reason 11 doesn't appeal to me in general (at least not in its current state), but it's been interesting watching the "outside world" react to this release and the Props being held to a whole new standard.
Key complaints are:
- Lack of latency reporting
- Inability to route MIDI out of the Rack VST
- Inability for the Rack VST to host 3rd party VST plugins (can't Combinate)
- Lack of VST3 support in Reason 11
I have no dog in this hunt since Reason 11 doesn't appeal to me in general (at least not in its current state), but it's been interesting watching the "outside world" react to this release and the Props being held to a whole new standard.
wreaking havoc with since 2.5
https://soundcloud.com/nekujak-donnay/sets
https://soundcloud.com/nekujak-donnay/sets
Instead of stating "it's confirmed" would it be possible to share the method which you used to confirm this?
Not looking for an argument but I'm plain out curious. I also couldn't help but notice that when then original poster ("Studio Saturn") got a response which quoted the manual and suggested a possible cause for his findings he basically went on the offense ("I know what I hear") and ran off. It's one thing to make a claim, it's another to back it up with arguments.
And for the record: I also couldn't care less in the overall because I tried Reason 11 and removed it the very same day. I'm back on 10 (usually rewired into Live) with a whole new collection of RE's and I'm very happy with my setup. I did make a backup copy of the Reason rack VST folder and moved that into the location where I wanted it to be from the getgo (you can only install it on C which is bad for me, now I have it on D where it should be) so now I get to play around with Reason 10 and got some features of 11 in the VST.
So I also tried using the same instruments in the VST on Live and Reason 10 rewired into Live and well... I'd like to know more.
Not looking for an argument but I'm plain out curious. I also couldn't help but notice that when then original poster ("Studio Saturn") got a response which quoted the manual and suggested a possible cause for his findings he basically went on the offense ("I know what I hear") and ran off. It's one thing to make a claim, it's another to back it up with arguments.
And for the record: I also couldn't care less in the overall because I tried Reason 11 and removed it the very same day. I'm back on 10 (usually rewired into Live) with a whole new collection of RE's and I'm very happy with my setup. I did make a backup copy of the Reason rack VST folder and moved that into the location where I wanted it to be from the getgo (you can only install it on C which is bad for me, now I have it on D where it should be) so now I get to play around with Reason 10 and got some features of 11 in the VST.
So I also tried using the same instruments in the VST on Live and Reason 10 rewired into Live and well... I'd like to know more.
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There's currently a bug in Reason Rack Plugin where it adds an additional 64 samples of latency. We're working hard to fix this (and other things) right now. Beyond that, Reason Rack Plugin should report latency properly so there shouldn't be a bigger timing difference than 64 samples, which is usable in most cases where you're not using a parallel channel. Sorry about this!
Thanks for chiming in, Mattias! Do you mean in the case of using a Reason Rack FX on a parallel channel which is fed by a channel containing another Reason plugin? Or is it a problem for the Rack FX on any parallel channel?MattiasHG wrote: ↑07 Oct 2019There's currently a bug in Reason Rack Plugin where it adds an additional 64 samples of latency. We're working hard to fix this (and other things) right now. Beyond that, Reason Rack Plugin should report latency properly so there shouldn't be a bigger timing difference than 64 samples, which is usable in most cases where you're not using a parallel channel. Sorry about this!
Thanks in advance for your clarification.
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From my experience I *think* it's just a consistent 64 samples (whether that's as an instrument or an effect, send or insert). In the early/logging stages of beta I felt like PDC wasn't functioning but by the last release candidate, I did notice my host was adjusting its latency as I was doing things like changing the FFT size on Quartet or the number of EQ bands on BV12. So I don't think - as the linked thread seems to suggest - it's accurate to say Reason VST doesn't report PDC. It does but it seems to be +64 samples which is creating comb filtering when parallel processing. Fingers and toes firmly crossed for a swift fixbotnotbot wrote: ↑07 Oct 2019Thanks for chiming in, Mattias! Do you mean in the case of using a Reason Rack FX on a parallel channel which is fed by a channel containing another Reason plugin? Or is it a problem for the Rack FX on any parallel channel?MattiasHG wrote: ↑07 Oct 2019There's currently a bug in Reason Rack Plugin where it adds an additional 64 samples of latency. We're working hard to fix this (and other things) right now. Beyond that, Reason Rack Plugin should report latency properly so there shouldn't be a bigger timing difference than 64 samples, which is usable in most cases where you're not using a parallel channel. Sorry about this!
Thanks in advance for your clarification.
Yeah, pretty much this. It's a consistent +64 samples that's not reported. Since it's such a short delay it only becomes audible when you do a parallel channel and put Reason Rack Plugin on one of them, leading to some amount of phasing. For most normal, single channel use you can't tell the difference.chimp_spanner wrote: ↑07 Oct 2019From my experience I *think* it's just a consistent 64 samples (whether that's as an instrument or an effect, send or insert). In the early/logging stages of beta I felt like PDC wasn't functioning but by the last release candidate, I did notice my host was adjusting its latency as I was doing things like changing the FFT size on Quartet or the number of EQ bands on BV12. So I don't think - as the linked thread seems to suggest - it's accurate to say Reason VST doesn't report PDC. It does but it seems to be +64 samples which is creating comb filtering when parallel processing. Fingers and toes firmly crossed for a swift fix
Exactly THIS was my thinking...Its like "my car does not drive fast" and someone did not mentione, it was droven in the 1st gear or with no gasoline or reverse gear or...whatever...
Reason12, Win10
Is it your first day on the Internet? I've been trying to fight with this for years ( "Does anyone else have problem with X in Y?" ) but I'm always getting criticised for not being helpful… I guess there's always someone with too much time on their hands ready to ask 10 questions to get the full story.
No, its not my first dayantic604 wrote: ↑07 Oct 2019Is it your first day on the Internet? I've been trying to fight with this for years ( "Does anyone else have problem with X in Y?" ) but I'm always getting criticised for not being helpful… I guess there's always someone with too much time on their hands ready to ask 10 questions to get the full story.
Because of the lack of fundamental evidence, i completely tried to ignore those threads and did not asked before. Its just too hard to get those information from "ranting" ppl...
Reason12, Win10
Well, he confirmed a constant not reported delay of 64 samples. The guys in the threads are talking about no delay reporting at all. That are two different things, even if it all about delay compensation.
Reason12, Win10
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So each instance adds 64 samples on its own? What if you have two instances on the same channel? Do they add up regardless of the devices contained? If you add devices that have latency, is that extra latency reported or not?
In the case that only the 64 samples are added and everything additional to that is reported, could adding an empty instance to every channel make everything even?
Please explain in layman terms
In the case that only the 64 samples are added and everything additional to that is reported, could adding an empty instance to every channel make everything even?
Please explain in layman terms
Haha, sorry! I thought I was clear that Reason Rack Plugin always adds 64 samples of unreported latency.PhillipOrdonez wrote: ↑07 Oct 2019So each instance adds 64 samples on its own? What if you have two instances on the same channel? Do they add up regardless of the devices contained? If you add devices that have latency, is that extra latency reported or not?
In the case that only the 64 samples are added and everything additional to that is reported, could adding an empty instance to every channel make everything even?
Please explain in layman terms
Reason Rack Plugin still reports the "correct latency" of any devices added, plus an additional unreported 64 samples. If you have two instances on the Reason Rack Plugin on the same channel, that's two times 64. If you have several non-latency introducing devices in one instance of Reason Rack Plugin, that's still just 64 samples.
In pretty much all hosts you can manually offset tracks, so if you nudged a track with a Reason Rack Plugin effect 64 samples, it should be fine. However, and I want to re-iterate this, 64 samples is almost unnoticeable unless you do parallel processing and get phasing. It's a delay of 1.45 milliseconds on 44.1kHz sample rate. The human ear can sort that out just fine