Announcing Reason 11

This forum is for discussing Propellerhead's music software. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
DougalDarkly
Posts: 43
Joined: 31 Jul 2019

Post 11 Sep 2019

Jagwah wrote:
11 Sep 2019
It's as if you are addressing everyone here who is complaining but aiming it at me.
I don't like that term like I said, I don't know how that relates to what you are ranting about.
Guess I will keep these things to myself more as it seems to ruffle feathers and cause people to be quite rude.
People (3 so far) have responded DIRECTLY to the tone of YOUR comment - you characterised people who have used a term you don't like (like me) as 'incredibly stupid', 'incredibly ignorant' and compared us to Al Capone - I think you may mean James Cagney (the actor), because Al Capone was a mass-murdering criminal?

As for 'ruffled feathers' - you claimed that people commenting 'hurt your soul'!

THIS is why you got the responses you got - because YOU were rude.

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Jagwah
Posts: 1514
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 11 Sep 2019

DougalDarkly wrote:
11 Sep 2019
Jagwah wrote:
11 Sep 2019
It's as if you are addressing everyone here who is complaining but aiming it at me.
I don't like that term like I said, I don't know how that relates to what you are ranting about.
Guess I will keep these things to myself more as it seems to ruffle feathers and cause people to be quite rude.
People (3 so far) have responded DIRECTLY to the tone of YOUR comment - you characterised people who have used a term you don't like (like me) as 'incredibly stupid', 'incredibly ignorant' and compared us to Al Capone - I think you may mean James Cagney (the actor), because Al Capone was a mass-murdering criminal?

As for 'ruffled feathers' - you claimed that people commenting 'hurt your soul'!

THIS is why you got the responses you got - because YOU were rude.
I didn't want to target anyone directly which is why I just ranted without quoting. I do passionately hate that phrase and I do believe it to be incredibly stupid and ignorant and I see it thrown around way too much. I actually read the phrase in this thread when I wasn't logged in and didn't notice who it was that said it.

I think I got used to having lots of people here that I've been conversing with for many years, and I've started using the forum more like a personal soundboard to voice too many of my thoughts. I did learn a lesson here so there's that at least.

You are right, I was out of line and I'm really sorry I in effect targeted you in my rude rant. I'm sure you aren't even remotely stupid or ignorant or anything like a murdering criminal.

DougalDarkly
Posts: 43
Joined: 31 Jul 2019

Post 11 Sep 2019

Jagwah wrote:
11 Sep 2019
I'm sure you aren't even remotely stupid or ignorant or anything like a murdering criminal.
I'm not sure I'd go THAT far, except for the murdering bit - I like to think of myself as at least SLIGHTLY less stupid and ignorant than the average guy, but that's not exactly saying much!

I appreciate your apology, thank you :) - I've ruffled a few feathers here and there myself - it's not easy knowing what will push people buttons...

As long as we all try to respect each other (whilst simultaneously disrespecting each other's views ;) ) we'll get along fine - I think that's the general tone of this forum and (most of) its users so I'm trying to fit in - just passed 40 comments and no death-threats!

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diminished
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Post 11 Sep 2019

Now kith <3

DougalDarkly
Posts: 43
Joined: 31 Jul 2019

Post 11 Sep 2019

diminished wrote:
11 Sep 2019
Now kith <3
:puf_bigsmile:

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Jagwah
Posts: 1514
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 11 Sep 2019

DougalDarkly wrote:
11 Sep 2019
Jagwah wrote:
11 Sep 2019
I'm sure you aren't even remotely stupid or ignorant or anything like a murdering criminal.
I'm not sure I'd go THAT far, except for the murdering bit - I like to think of myself as at least SLIGHTLY less stupid and ignorant than the average guy, but that's not exactly saying much!

I appreciate your apology, thank you :) - I've ruffled a few feathers here and there myself - it's not easy knowing what will push people buttons...

As long as we all try to respect each other (whilst simultaneously disrespecting each other's views ;) ) we'll get along fine - I think that's the general tone of this forum and (most of) its users so I'm trying to fit in - just passed 40 comments and no death-threats!
Thanks man and again I'm sorry about all that, also pretty sure I meant Cagney, I should probably look him up!

eshy
Posts: 1
Joined: 11 Sep 2019

Post 11 Sep 2019

GRIFTY wrote:
09 Sep 2019
Is the non-reason-forum reaction to this update as bad as it is here? What does the rest of the computer-music world think about it? Personally I think this update is ridiculously horrible, and to try and add another 125 bucks for some old crap I didn't want when it came out the first time adds insult to injury for me. But I'm obviously biased.... I'm curious what less biased reactions are like. I'm kinda suspicious there's very little actual reactions to speak of at all though. Reason gets less relevant every update it seems like
I haven't seen it mentioned much on other forums that deal with general production or other DAWs (I don't count KVR since every post I see there usually reflects the same reaction you see in the relevant products own forums/facebook pages). I will say that I've seen similar reactions to other DAW upgrades. When Ableton Live 10 was announced people were underwhelmed and disappointed.

Once it's actually released it will be interesting to see how many of the other-DAW users, who don't currently own any version of Reason, consider it as an option. It's not a bad deal when compared to other plugins. It costs more than most plugins but includes so much in that price.

This move can potentially open a huge new market for them, or, it could be a niche plugin just like it's a niche DAW

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JiggeryPokery
Posts: 1045
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 11 Sep 2019

DougalDarkly wrote:
10 Sep 2019
Jagwah wrote:
09 Sep 2019
That reasonably new popular term 'If you don't like it just don't buy it' is so incredibly stupid it hurts my soul.
Why? Surely there are 2 reasonable, sensible responses to the update:

1 - I like it (the upgrade, the price, the prospects) and WILL upgrade;
2 - I don't like it (the upgrade, the price, the prospects) and WILL NOT upgrade.

You realise that RS are going to judge whether they've done 'the right thing' with this update/direction on SALES right? If they launch the new version and the figures match expectations, they know they got it right.

You can't seriously think that all you need to do is keep complaining? That RS are reading your comments and making their business decisions based on them?

It seems to me that the only incredibly stupid response would be:

3 - I don't like it (the upgrade, the price, the prospects) and WILL upgrade anyway, continuing to vent my frustration at RS on a forum, hoping they'll change their entire approach to their product at some point in the future.

If you think about it (MARRRRRRRRR) 'If you don't like it just don't buy it' is THE ONLY mechanism you have as a customer to 'make them listen' to your woes.
That's not entirely true if you think about it.

OS changes can force people to upgrade, as OS fixes tend not to be backported to old program versions*. Likewise RE SDK updates have mostly been linked to Reason cycles, even, sadly, bug fixes, when it's certainly not always been the case it needed to be; again, that's used to force devs to target the latest version to "encourage" users to upgrade even where they might not otherwise have needed to do so. Thus absolutely people might not like it but still upgrade for practical reasons. And of course some people will automatically upgrade every time because they naturallly want to support the company they've invested a lot of time and money in.

And of course, at the most basic level, often you don't know you don't like something until after you've bought it! :puf_wink:

_______

* I've a vague recollection such a backport did happen once, though - wasn't R8 or R9 given an emergency fix when the current version was one later? So it definitely can happen, but it's fairly unusual.

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miscend
Posts: 1304
Joined: 09 Feb 2015

Post 11 Sep 2019

Was there any clamouring for ARA2 support or is everyone content with the built in audio editing and pitch corrections tools?

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miscend
Posts: 1304
Joined: 09 Feb 2015

Post 11 Sep 2019

Jagwah wrote:
11 Sep 2019
DougalDarkly wrote:
11 Sep 2019


People (3 so far) have responded DIRECTLY to the tone of YOUR comment - you characterised people who have used a term you don't like (like me) as 'incredibly stupid', 'incredibly ignorant' and compared us to Al Capone - I think you may mean James Cagney (the actor), because Al Capone was a mass-murdering criminal?

As for 'ruffled feathers' - you claimed that people commenting 'hurt your soul'!

THIS is why you got the responses you got - because YOU were rude.
I didn't want to target anyone directly which is why I just ranted without quoting. I do passionately hate that phrase and I do believe it to be incredibly stupid and ignorant and I see it thrown around way too much. I actually read the phrase in this thread when I wasn't logged in and didn't notice who it was that said it.

I think I got used to having lots of people here that I've been conversing with for many years, and I've started using the forum more like a personal soundboard to voice too many of my thoughts. I did learn a lesson here so there's that at least.

You are right, I was out of line and I'm really sorry I in effect targeted you in my rude rant. I'm sure you aren't even remotely stupid or ignorant or anything like a murdering criminal.
No offence but I think the main issue here was your misunderstanding of the term. You equated "don't like it, don't buy it" to meaning "I don't give a rats a*** about Reason and its future direction." If there is no compelling reason for you to upgrade to Reason 11, it's perfectly acceptable to skip versions until new features which are beneficial to your own workflow are added.

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EnochLight
Posts: 5625
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: your mom

Post 11 Sep 2019

miscend wrote:
11 Sep 2019
Was there any clamouring for ARA2 support or is everyone content with the built in audio editing and pitch corrections tools?
ARA2 makes zero sense, since Reason has its own audio pitch editing built in. That said, I don't think anyone would say "no" to it, as Melodyne Editor is freaking sweet, but Props really have no reason to pursue this since their own was developed.
Windows 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | Intel i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

madmacman
Posts: 476
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 11 Sep 2019

EnochLight wrote:
11 Sep 2019
miscend wrote:
11 Sep 2019
Was there any clamouring for ARA2 support or is everyone content with the built in audio editing and pitch corrections tools?
ARA2 makes zero sense, since Reason has its own audio pitch editing built in.
"Zero sense" is a bit harsh - even Steinberg had to admit that it's a significant feature to be implemented into Cubase & Nuendo, despite the fact that there's the excellent builtin VariAudio.

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QVprod
Posts: 2312
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 11 Sep 2019

EnochLight wrote:
11 Sep 2019
miscend wrote:
11 Sep 2019
Was there any clamouring for ARA2 support or is everyone content with the built in audio editing and pitch corrections tools?
ARA2 makes zero sense, since Reason has its own audio pitch editing built in. That said, I don't think anyone would say "no" to it, as Melodyne Editor is freaking sweet, but Props really have no reason to pursue this since their own was developed.
Logic included it despite having their own pitch editor as well. Reason's pitch editor is monophonic so unless they intend to make it polyphonic, ARA2 would have benefits for Melodyne. Also, there is no (and probably won't be) a Reason equivalent to VocALign which also uses ARA2. I think those are sensible reasons.

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boingy
Posts: 670
Joined: 01 Feb 2019

Post 11 Sep 2019

EnochLight wrote:
11 Sep 2019
miscend wrote:
11 Sep 2019
Was there any clamouring for ARA2 support or is everyone content with the built in audio editing and pitch corrections tools?
ARA2 makes zero sense, since Reason has its own audio pitch editing built in. That said, I don't think anyone would say "no" to it, as Melodyne Editor is freaking sweet, but Props really have no reason to pursue this since their own was developed.
ARA and ARA2 are not just for pitch editing. At present there are only a few plugins that support it but they are "big deal" plugins: Melodyne and VocAlign. I'm pretty sure we'll see plenty more suppliers join in because the level of DAW integration you get is superb.

The technology is implemented in lots of DAWs: Studio One, Cakewalk, Tracktion, Samplitude, Logic, Reaper, Nuendo, Cubase.

Based on how slow PH were with VSTs I guess we'll see ARA in about 2025... :evil:

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EnochLight
Posts: 5625
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: your mom

Post 11 Sep 2019

madmacman wrote:
11 Sep 2019
"Zero sense" is a bit harsh - even Steinberg had to admit that it's a significant feature to be implemented into Cubase & Nuendo, despite the fact that there's the excellent builtin VariAudio.
QVprod wrote:
11 Sep 2019
Logic included it despite having their own pitch editor as well. Reason's pitch editor is monophonic so unless they intend to make it polyphonic, ARA2 would have benefits for Melodyne. Also, there is no (and probably won't be) a Reason equivalent to VocALign which also uses ARA2. I think those are sensible reasons.
Fair points. You've changed my mind - ARA2 would be a fantastic addition to Reason. Let's start our campaign of pestering Mattias now! :puf_smile:
Windows 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | Intel i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

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boingy
Posts: 670
Joined: 01 Feb 2019

Post 11 Sep 2019

EnochLight wrote:
11 Sep 2019
Fair points. You've changed my mind - ARA2 would be a fantastic addition to Reason. Let's start our campaign of pestering Mattias now! :puf_smile:
Excellent idea. Even though I am entitled to R11 for free when it lands because I've just bought R10 I shall refuse to download it until it includes ARA2 and all the other stuff I would like. That'll teach 'em….

Spaceship
Posts: 31
Joined: 11 May 2019

Post 11 Sep 2019

[/quote]

Huh? 300 pages?!! Are we looking at the same forum?

[/quote]

Oops I meant post. Not pages. My brain was on the fritz.

ltbrunt00
Posts: 407
Joined: 10 Jan 2017

Post 11 Sep 2019

Can any Rack Extension developers comment on if they are as excited as I am to use rack Extensions in other DAWS.
Would like to know how they feel about possibly getting a bigger user base for their work.

I personally enjoy the tight integration that Rack Extensions have in Reason and prefer using Rack Extensions over VST if the RE version is available.
Reason, Studio 1 & Bitwig

PGR
Posts: 63
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 11 Sep 2019

EnochLight wrote:
11 Sep 2019
madmacman wrote:
11 Sep 2019
"Zero sense" is a bit harsh - even Steinberg had to admit that it's a significant feature to be implemented into Cubase & Nuendo, despite the fact that there's the excellent builtin VariAudio.
QVprod wrote:
11 Sep 2019
Logic included it despite having their own pitch editor as well. Reason's pitch editor is monophonic so unless they intend to make it polyphonic, ARA2 would have benefits for Melodyne. Also, there is no (and probably won't be) a Reason equivalent to VocALign which also uses ARA2. I think those are sensible reasons.
Fair points. You've changed my mind - ARA2 would be a fantastic addition to Reason. Let's start our campaign of pestering Mattias now! :puf_smile:
What happened here? How often du you see on an internet forum someone change their mind? In this 53 page post, you are the first to change mind? Respect! :D

pquenin
Posts: 47
Joined: 31 May 2016

Post 11 Sep 2019

I was dreaming of a NN-XT VST plugin to use my beloved refills so Reason 11 Intro can do this and much much more, for 79€.
If you see Reason 11 as a VST plugin, it's one of the best plugin for its price (if you already own Reason).
But my goal when I switched to Reason 10 was to do everything in Reason so I'm disapointed.
As Reason 10 was presented as a "content upgrade", I was pretty sure that Reason 11 will be focused on the core app and the GUI.
I have sold my Reason 10 and will go Reaper with Reason 11 Intro plugin.

But PH (well Reason Studios) please bring the half-rack phaser in Reason Intro (and all the half-rack FX if possible), as there is now this new Sweeper device in the "big" Reason.

michael.jaye
Posts: 131
Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Location: Sydney, Australia

Post 11 Sep 2019

Proboscis wrote:
09 Sep 2019
boingy wrote:
09 Sep 2019
The first group think that Propellerhead can do no wrong, are positive about anything new and will gladly hand over the cash for it. The second group have actually, literally and actually-literally been slapped in the face, have been betrayed and are absolutely disgusted by a software update that is not even released yet.
That's a little too black & white. I am on Reason 10, and do not subscribe to the notion of upgrading simply because it's on offer. But I don't feel disgusted or betrayed. I'm just not upgrading until there's a compelling enough feature set to justify it, or a need to exchange projects with Reason 11 users.

No amount of stamping my feet or having a moan on public forums is going to change how they roll out upgrades. Make no mistake, I too have my small and very reasonable wishlist, but it hasn't happened yet, so be it. Nobody is forcing us to upgrade. Nothing will change the way we work at present. And no money is changing hands. The world keeps turning.
My sentiments exactly.

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Loque
Posts: 5783
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 11 Sep 2019

pquenin wrote:
11 Sep 2019
I was dreaming of a NN-XT VST plugin to use my beloved refills so Reason 11 Intro can do this and much much more, for 79€.
If you see Reason 11 as a VST plugin, it's one of the best plugin for its price (if you already own Reason).
But my goal when I switched to Reason 10 was to do everything in Reason so I'm disapointed.
As Reason 10 was presented as a "content upgrade", I was pretty sure that Reason 11 will be focused on the core app and the GUI.
I have sold my Reason 10 and will go Reaper with Reason 11 Intro plugin.

But PH (well Reason Studios) please bring the half-rack phaser in Reason Intro (and all the half-rack FX if possible), as there is now this new Sweeper device in the "big" Reason.
You should not have sold your full Reason and upgraded instead og buying Intro 😜
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

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gullum
Posts: 457
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: Faroe Islands

Post 12 Sep 2019

pquenin wrote:
11 Sep 2019
I was dreaming of a NN-XT VST plugin to use my beloved refills so Reason 11 Intro can do this and much much more, for 79€.
If you see Reason 11 as a VST plugin, it's one of the best plugin for its price (if you already own Reason).
But my goal when I switched to Reason 10 was to do everything in Reason so I'm disapointed.
As Reason 10 was presented as a "content upgrade", I was pretty sure that Reason 11 will be focused on the core app and the GUI.
I have sold my Reason 10 and will go Reaper with Reason 11 Intro plugin.

But PH (well Reason Studios) please bring the half-rack phaser in Reason Intro (and all the half-rack FX if possible), as there is now this new Sweeper device in the "big" Reason.
what you don't want to pay for what is not in intro then ask RS to give it to you :D

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gullum
Posts: 457
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: Faroe Islands

Post 12 Sep 2019

pquenin wrote:
11 Sep 2019

But PH (well Reason Studios) please bring the half-rack phaser in Reason Intro (and all the half-rack FX if possible), as there is now this new Sweeper device in the "big" Reason.
what you don't want to pay for what is not in intro then ask RS to give it to you :D

pquenin
Posts: 47
Joined: 31 May 2016

Post 12 Sep 2019

Well I will be happy with just the half rack phaser (it just sounds nice to my ears). They add several devices to the full Reason at every updates, why not add a little device to Intro ?

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