Mouse-over, knob controllers?

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
SaveTheHuman5
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Post 22 Oct 2018

Faastwalker wrote:
21 Oct 2018
I've noticed other one-knob over controllers have dedicated buttons/switches for changing between control types i.e. vertical, horizontal & circular controls in the software. How does this work with the Surface Dial & the Elephant software?
Right now you have to switch from one mode to other using the software menu, what for sure not is the good way to go! I mean, really non comfortable and slow way.
Some users request hotkeys in my forum, but well, not a good idea...………...you know move your hand form one side to other any time you want switch.

Version 1.4 come with 2 new features:

New Feature 1- A new mode work in both cases, this mode allow to move a knob or a slider, without switch. Vertical, horizontal and circular in one single mode. Anyway this mode is OK, for any software or VST use mouse in place feature, like Ableton Bitwig and any modern VST.
Reason not have mouse in place feature, so this mode, not is the best way to go for Reason users.

New feature 2- Elephant Extender
Hi!computer is a place with a lot of DIY spirit, and this extender is the first DIY project see the light.

The Elephant Extender is a little hardware addon for Elephant Software, the base of the project use 3 sanwa buttons 2.95U$ each:
https://www.focusattack.com/sanwa-obsfs ... ons-black/
Or you can go with a more nice buttons
https://www.focusattack.com/pushbuttons ... anwa/30mm/

Or also the 23mm versions:
https://www.focusattack.com/pushbuttons ... anwa/30mm/

Also you need one Arduino board (around 5U$ if you order from china) and 0 knowledge in coding or soldering (self powered by USB)
Buttons can be connected with terminals to the Arduino board with "Pin Wire Connector" and terminals.
I provide a simple software for load the software required to Arduino so users no need install Arduino tools or need special knowledge etc.

For users want go beyond and can spend just few extra bucks, well if you like DIY projects, you really love the first DIY project I launch soon.
Around Monday 29, I launch the first renders and all info in the web site.

..........and the case for mount all this?
Well.... dont worry, there is a lot of options, like.... print central body with 3d printer, buy that already printed, attach nice wood laterals, mount directly on you desktop, and a lot of crazy ideas I stay ensure the community start to show with pics.
I provide the 3d files, and links to obtain that ready printed. etc etc etc

Finally probably add extra feature what is a hybrid between FEATURE 1 AND 2

Oh! and subscription to Hi!computer is just 9.99U$, one time payment with access to Elephant, The Extender, Chameleon software and all upcoming software and DIY projects :puf_bigsmile:


Only one combo is better than Hi!computer combo :lol:

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Faastwalker
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Post 22 Oct 2018

Sounds good. Looking forward to seeing what people do with the Elephant Extender DIY projects.

SaveTheHuman5
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Post 03 Nov 2018

Faastwalker wrote:
22 Oct 2018
Sounds good. Looking forward to seeing what people do with the Elephant Extender DIY projects.
:puf_bigsmile: DIY !

Last edited by SaveTheHuman5 on 05 Nov 2018, edited 2 times in total.

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Faastwalker
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Post 04 Nov 2018

SaveTheHuman5 wrote:
03 Nov 2018
Faastwalker wrote:
22 Oct 2018
Sounds good. Looking forward to seeing what people do with the Elephant Extender DIY projects.
:puf_bigsmile: DIY !

Awesome. No special knowledge required? So anyone should be able to do this. You just need to build or buy a suitable enclosure? Will you sell kits with the buttons as well? Very interesting & exciting development ;)

SaveTheHuman5
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Post 05 Nov 2018

Yes, anyone be able to do this.
Yes, you can mount on your studio desktop, build your case, 3d print, imagine something cool like a simple piece of wood with some vintage or special look, etc, I provide more ideas about case/mount soon.
About kits, no I not provide KITS, but the reason is good. If I prepare kits for sell that result in a expensive KIT to a end user..... I have to order parts, manage stock, reshipping to users, add cost of guarantee.........bla bla bla............all that make this project expensive with no sense. :thumbs_down:

All info of the project will be available here, already publish some details, and next Monday I update again.

https://hi.computer/forum-community/diy/the-extender/

:puf_bigsmile:

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Faastwalker
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Post 06 Nov 2018

SaveTheHuman5 wrote:
05 Nov 2018
Yes, anyone be able to do this.
Yes, you can mount on your studio desktop, build your case, 3d print, imagine something cool like a simple piece of wood with some vintage or special look, etc, I provide more ideas about case/mount soon.
About kits, no I not provide KITS, but the reason is good. If I prepare kits for sell that result in a expensive KIT to a end user..... I have to order parts, manage stock, reshipping to users, add cost of guarantee.........bla bla bla............all that make this project expensive with no sense. :thumbs_down:

All info of the project will be available here, already publish some details, and next Monday I update again.

https://hi.computer/forum-community/diy/the-extender/

:puf_bigsmile:
Very cool. I have a friend at work who is building his own MIDI controller. He knows someone who built him an enclosure. So i might hit him up to make me one once I have dimensions & other requirements. Definitely want to give this a go.

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Faastwalker
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Post 13 Dec 2018

........ any news on DIY projects out there yet?

Interested to see what people do with this before diving in myself.

New years project for me? I hope so ;)

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Faastwalker
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Post 06 Jun 2019

Okay, definitely need to finally jump onboard with this now ;)

https://hi.computer/elephant/


s0ber
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Post 08 Sep 2019

Just letting everyone know, I've found a way to control reason rack knobs with a mousewheel:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7513749

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joeyluck
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Post 08 Sep 2019

s0ber wrote:
08 Sep 2019
Just letting everyone know, I've found a way to control reason rack knobs with a mousewheel:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7513749
Is there an easy way to then take that and assign movement to a MIDI knob? So that the mouse hovers to give focus and the knob adjusts?

s0ber
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Post 08 Sep 2019

joeyluck wrote:
08 Sep 2019
s0ber wrote:
08 Sep 2019
Just letting everyone know, I've found a way to control reason rack knobs with a mousewheel:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7513749
Is there an easy way to then take that and assign movement to a MIDI knob? So that the mouse hovers to give focus and the knob adjusts?
Not sure if I am getting you correctly, but it seems like it is exactly like that. Btw, it only works in Mac OS. Basically it simulates mousedrag when you scroll the wheel. So reason handles it just as a usual mouse drag over the knob. There is no way to programmatically understand what is exactly located under the cursor - is it a knob or a fader or anything else. So you have to point the cursor to what you need first and use correct mod key when scrolling. For faders you have to do "alt+scroll", for knobs "fn+scroll".

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joeyluck
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Post 08 Sep 2019

s0ber wrote:
08 Sep 2019
joeyluck wrote:
08 Sep 2019


Is there an easy way to then take that and assign movement to a MIDI knob? So that the mouse hovers to give focus and the knob adjusts?
Not sure if I am getting you correctly, but it seems like it is exactly like that. Btw, it only works in Mac OS. Basically it simulates mousedrag when you scroll the wheel. So reason handles it just as a usual mouse drag over the knob. There is no way to programmatically understand what is exactly located under the cursor - is it a knob or a fader or anything else. So you have to point the cursor to what you need first and use correct mod key when scrolling. For faders you have to do "alt+scroll", for knobs "fn+scroll".
Gotcha. My goal, which is better explained by examples in the first post, is a controller like nOb, in which you hover the mouse and then turn a hardware knob.

s0ber
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Post 08 Sep 2019

joeyluck wrote:
08 Sep 2019
s0ber wrote:
08 Sep 2019


Not sure if I am getting you correctly, but it seems like it is exactly like that. Btw, it only works in Mac OS. Basically it simulates mousedrag when you scroll the wheel. So reason handles it just as a usual mouse drag over the knob. There is no way to programmatically understand what is exactly located under the cursor - is it a knob or a fader or anything else. So you have to point the cursor to what you need first and use correct mod key when scrolling. For faders you have to do "alt+scroll", for knobs "fn+scroll".
Gotcha. My goal, which is better explained by examples in the first post, is a controller like nOb, in which you hover the mouse and then turn a hardware knob.
I have an Audient id14 audio interface, and it has a big knob which can work as a mousewheel, so it's mostly the same as things like nOb or Kontrol Master (even though those two may have better ergonomics and sensitivity). But I never use it, to me usual mousewheel is enough. Also, on macbook there is a very sensitive touchpad, which works even better for precise adjustments. The problem is that reason does not support mousewheel adjustments, so no matter how good your mouse (and its wheel) is, there is no use for it. That's why I created this script and it turned out to work really well.

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joeyluck
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Post 08 Sep 2019

s0ber wrote:
08 Sep 2019
joeyluck wrote:
08 Sep 2019


Gotcha. My goal, which is better explained by examples in the first post, is a controller like nOb, in which you hover the mouse and then turn a hardware knob.
I have an Audient id14 audio interface, and it has a big knob which can work as a mousewheel, so it's mostly the same as things like nOb or Kontrol Master (even though those two may have better ergonomics and sensitivity). But I never use it, to me usual mousewheel is enough. Also, on macbook there is a very sensitive touchpad, which works even better for precise adjustments. The problem is that reason does not support mousewheel adjustments, so no matter how good your mouse (and its wheel) is, there is no use for it. That's why I created this script and it turned out to work really well.
I might give it a shot. Thanks. I use a MacBook Air. I've used the trackpad before to control parameters of VSTs that support mouse wheel scroll, and found I usually preferred clicking the trackpad and scrolling. Ultimately I want something tactile.

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pedrocaetanos
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Post 10 Oct 2020

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7502789&start=400
pedrocaetanos wrote:
09 Oct 2020
kuhliloach wrote:
07 Oct 2020
It is my personal belief that the solution to this and a lot more is simply one big knob.
https://www.nobcontrol.com/
;)

Yes, I have it and it works great.
Handles knobs and faders, both vertical and horizontal.
Navigation is made with mouse.
:thumbs_up:
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pedrocaetanos
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Post 10 Oct 2020

tanni wrote:
09 Oct 2020
Oh, please could you tell more about that ? Are you on Windows 10 ? Is this plug and play, or a software to install ...is the function on every knob or fader in Reason useable ? Thats exactly what Im searching for...
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pedrocaetanos
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Post 10 Oct 2020

tanni wrote:
10 Oct 2020
kuhliloach wrote:
10 Oct 2020
Audient's knob:
here is a test about this knob function of audient interfaces (sorry its in german):

https://www.bonedo.de/artikel/einzelans ... est/2.html

it says in the test that the function of the scroll control knob working very bad and not acceptable with software DAW and plugins. In this way the function is unusable.
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pedrocaetanos
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Post 10 Oct 2020

pedrocaetanos wrote:
10 Oct 2020
kuhliloach wrote:
10 Oct 2020
Audient's knob:
Besides the nob control I mentioned above I also have an audient, an iD14.
For the purpose intended in this thread, the Audient is mostly useless without additional software.
When the knob is in iD mode it works as a mouse wheel, which mostly scrolls the rack up and down.
EDIT: Reason is not in the list of supporte DAWs, that's why it's mostly useless: https://support.audient.com/hc/en-us/ar ... l-Control-
But there is a software that makes the mouse wheel work as the Nob Control (put the mouse over a knob, and spin the wheel to spin the knob). It's a simple software, I have tried and it works. With that software installed the Audient knob works about the same as the Nob Control.
It's reasonably big, metallic, it's a nice knob.
I used that to kind of test the overall solution before buying the Nob Control.
Now the problem is that I changed computer, don't have it installed anymore, and looking in my archives I'm not finding that software nor I remember it's name.
Regarding Audient interfaces, altough without additional software the knob isn't magic, overall as an audio interface they are great, but latency isn't top tier as with an RME or a recent MOTU, I would say second tier.
But preamps are some of the best, same as in their ASP8024 top studio console.

PS: in case someone likes the the Audient iD knob and wants to buy one, beware that on iD22, altough the knob looks the same it doesn't have that feature. All the other "iD" interfaces do have it.
Last edited by pedrocaetanos on 10 Oct 2020, edited 1 time in total.
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pedrocaetanos
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Post 10 Oct 2020

pedrocaetanos wrote:
10 Oct 2020
tanni wrote:
10 Oct 2020
thanks for the good explanation pedrocaetanos.
If I understand right on their website, the nobcontrol knob use an own software ?
...And have you to click and hold the mousebutton with the mouse before you can use the knob or its just only showing with the mousecursor on the element like fader or poti.
Is the function really smooth ? Whats with the two switches on the nobcontrol....have you to switch every time if you want to use it with a fader or poti for example ?
Sorry, I had the reply to you pending.

I'm on Windows 10 but I expect this to also work on other versions and Mac (but please double check the compatibilities on the site).
This is completly plug and play because it's seen by the OS as a normal mouse, and additional drivers or software are needed.
I expect this to work forever (as long as hardware doesn't broke, but this is not fragile).
The software they have is not a device driver, it is for doing even more sophisticated stuff, don't remember the details as I don't use it - to operate Reason's knobs and faders is not necessary at all.

Reason knobs expect us to do a vertical up/down movent with the mouse, starting in the "center" of the knob.
With this device, when we turn the physical knob, it's firmware converts the rotation movement to a vertica movent, as if it were a mouse.
It has 3 modes: knob or slider, and when in slider mode, either vertical or horizontal. Choosing between modes is simply by using the switches on the sides.
So, in a very simple way, it works with everything in Reason, apart from press buttons.
It can also handle mixer faders of course, just not as user-friendly as a real motorized fader, but it's a global solution with a one knob solution.
In any case, mixing consoles from the 1950's/60's had rotary knobs instead of faders, so it's like a vintage console :D

You don't need to click the mouse. You move the mouse pointer until is over the screen knob that you want to turn, and then you turn the hardware knob, and it just works.

The hardwary quality is really good, in my point of view.
It's made of real wood, with shiny vernish, all edges and corners are rounded.
It has a bit of handmade feel (which I believe it rather is).
The knob is huge (about 50% more wider and taller than Audient knob).
Maybe it's made of brass, it feels cold on touch, real metal, gives a pro feeling (Audient knob I believe is made of aluminium, which is rather warm on toush, but still metal).
The finish is non-shiny brushed metal, extra smooth on touch, without being slippery.
It's golden colored, which together with the wood, gives the whole thing a very vintage look.

In terms of action, it comes buttery smooth. I found it too much, I almost couldn't feel how much it was turning.
But it has a screw to regulate how tight the turning mechanism is, and I changed it to tighter, less smooth, but still smooth. In other words: you are able to regulate it to fit your taste (this you cannot do with the Audient knob, but it has a nice action altough not in the same league. It is stepped, whihc is nice in a volume knob, but the steps aren't very strong. It's just slightly wobbly, however, but nothing serious. The NOB control, on the other hand, has totally zero wobble, really firm).

Regarding the switches: you only need to use them when you want to change from acting on knobs to faders (or vice-versa).
Say you act on 10 knobs, you do that by moving mouse pointer (no click) then turning knob, each one. That simple.
But then you want to act on a slider. You use the left switch, to change from knob mode, to slider mode.
Now you can act on 10 sliders, just by moving mouse pointer and then turning knob.
If you want to get back to acting kbos, you have to use left switch again to put it on knob mode.
Right switch is for changing between horizontal slider or vertical slider modes. Let's say these are sub-modes of slider mode, This doesn't matter when you are in knob mode.
There is also the possibility of jumping between knobs with double tapping on the switches, so the manual says (without additional software).
But I believe this is based on Windows current control object focus, that afaded rectangle sorrounding objets in (some) windows that you can make jump between objects using the tab key (I believe Mac also has all this).
Since Reason as far as I know doesn't have this concept, this doesn't work in Reason - you have to use the mouse to change the affected knob.
If reason supported this you could jump between knobs without touching the mouse!

I believe the NOB Control is handmade by a single guy, in Greece.
There is a waiting time and the demand is big (possibly not many are being made), usually the there is no stock and we have to register our email to receive a warning when there is a new batch in stock.
Sometimes the new batch gets all sold out in just a few hours (it happened to me), and we have to wait some weeks until there is a new batch - and be quick ordering!
In these COVID age, delivery time is atrocious: weeks! I waited a month, and I'm in european community, as well as Greece.
But the guy selling this is a nice guy and gives a good support - he always replied quickly and helpfuly regarding my fears of weather my NOB had went to the black hole of the shipping galaxy.
In terms of technical support, I never needed (I ordered this in the mid of the first COVID wave, maybe I have it for half a year).

This is a bit expensive for what amounts to just one knob, but it exudes quality and quality craftmanship. I feel it's well worth the price, and if it were made at this quality level by a known brand I believe it would be twice or triple the price.

I recommend it. This can be ALL that is needed to control Reason in a hands on way.
Additionaly, one fader would be nice, just to mimic the real beaviour (cause the NOB can also handle faders).
Maybe I will eventually get X-Touch One or Icon Nano for that.

There is a SOS review for the NOB:
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/nob-control-nob

And by the way: this whole conversation should be on another thread: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7500108

Regarding the software to make Audient knob useful with Reason, I really cannot find it.
SOme time ago I had a hard-disk malfunctioning and lost all data. The time window between backups made me loose quite some days of data, maybe I had downloaded it in that time.
Anyway, I would like to have it again: any help in identifying that (Windows) software that converts mouse wheel into knob movement would be appreciated.
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WOO
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Post 10 Oct 2020

What is the cost of this item?
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pedrocaetanos
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Post 10 Oct 2020

WOO wrote:
10 Oct 2020
What is the cost of this item?
Around 250€
Check the website, price may have changed.
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dannyF
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Post 11 Oct 2020

Yah I had a NOB, wasn't that great TBH. Sold it.

It really needs to be built into the mouse.... how hard would it be to press a key and now the mouse wheel is able to turn a fn knob rather than scroll.

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pedrocaetanos
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Post 11 Oct 2020

dannyF wrote:
11 Oct 2020
Yah I had a NOB, wasn't that great TBH. Sold it.

It really needs to be built into the mouse.... how hard would it be to press a key and now the mouse wheel is able to turn a fn knob rather than scroll.
Well, I suppose it's a personal thing. I like it a lot, and I'm not that much fan of using the mouse wheel compared to a real knob.
Anyway, since you're still wishing to have that, I suppose you don't have a Mac, cause this thread has already provided a solution doing that for Macs:
s0ber wrote:
08 Sep 2019
Just letting everyone know, I've found a way to control reason rack knobs with a mousewheel:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7513749
For Windows, I had a software that did just that (what you want)!
Problem is I lost it when my hard-disk broke, and it wasn't in last backup.
On top of that, I cannot remember what was the software name, nor where I got it.
I already tried many google searches of different sorts of keywords, and parsed many results and pages to see if I can find it, but without results.
So, I can tell you that what you want is out there, somewhere, I just can't tell you where! :)
In case you find it please let me know where ;)
(simply I'll give a different use: instead of turning mouse-wheel, I'll turn my Audient iD knob)
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JunctionArsonist
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Post 12 Oct 2020

dannyF wrote:
11 Oct 2020
...It really needs to be built into the mouse....
In case this hasnt been mentioned, some of the people in this thread may want to consider trying an ergonomic ball mouse...

https://www.logitech.com/en-ca/products ... tml?crid=7

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pedrocaetanos
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Post 12 Oct 2020

JunctionArsonist wrote:
12 Oct 2020
dannyF wrote:
11 Oct 2020
...It really needs to be built into the mouse....
In case this hasnt been mentioned, some of the people in this thread may want to consider trying an ergonomic ball mouse...

https://www.logitech.com/en-ca/products ... tml?crid=7
That's a nice tip. Something to consider. (personally I still prefer a knob)
However... it won't do anything without additional software.
Either the script for mac or the Windows software I cannot remember the name.
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