Announcing Reason 11

This forum is for discussing Propellerhead's music software. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
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guitfnky
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Post 05 Sep 2019

sleep1979 wrote:
05 Sep 2019
this will go on and on
no it won’t. one day, the earth will be swallowed by the sun, and we’ll all perish in a fiery hellscape. 😌

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Boombastix
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Post 05 Sep 2019

chimp_spanner wrote:
05 Sep 2019
I fully intend on using the Rack VST in my other DAW, Cubase Pro 10. Which, btw, is a hell of an experience. As I tweeted earlier, in dark mode it almost feels like a new feature of Cubase. Clever move. I will be using the rack for instruments and effects *way* more than my tired old Komplete Suite because I know the devices so well and can get so much more out of them with sequencing and modulation and routing. But I won't have to tie my hands and forgo Cubase's amazing sequencer and audio functionality any more just to use them. So for me, it's a win.

Maybe what's needed is an additional upgrade tier that just gives you the new features for a few bucks (or maybe none!).
I'm in the same boat - plan to use the Rack in Cubase 10 Pro - Variaudio + the Rack as FX (could not do that with rewire). That is niiice. But still want the Rack to be 100% complete with features (midi out + vst inside).

I said it before, I think they should rethink their upgrade pricing and cut it to close to 50% if you just do a one increment upgrade - it will basically cost the users the same (except the few hardcore one that do every one at full price) compared to doing every 2nd, but boy will they make everyone more happy. And with those who lag in upgrading, they may increase the frequency instead of falling behind and feeling frustrated from lacking the new features.

This week: As a Focusrite customer they gifted me a VG Iron for free. As a Maschine customer they gifted me with a new pack. Competition is fierce, IK/Waves/RS Suite, plugins in bundles are priced down to below $10/ea. Lot's of options and very important to keep customers happy, but make it smart so it doesn't kill the bottom line. The idea of pushing out Processed Pianos for $99 bucks just a few weeks before selling it for around $8 in a bundle - is not how you create loyal and happy customers.

One take away from the R11 launch/features is that Mattias listens to what the different communities ask for - that is a BIG positive and I hope, despite some rough feedback, that he takes it to heart and also continues on that path and accelerate the roll out of requested features. My outlook though, as a whole, is a positive one.
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OverneathTheSkyBridg
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Post 05 Sep 2019

I was thinking that Props are probably fed usage statistics during authorization including how often it is used as a Rewire slave and with what master.

antic604

Post 05 Sep 2019

chimp_spanner wrote:
05 Sep 2019
...Automation is super easy (clips and static values NEED to be in Cubase like, yesterday)...
Isn't that - sort of - what virgin territory does, though?


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moneykube
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Post 05 Sep 2019

more cowbell?

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Last Alternative
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Post 05 Sep 2019

diminished wrote:
05 Sep 2019
parma wrote:
05 Sep 2019


Where did this happen?
viewtopic.php?p=461433#p461433

and later

viewtopic.php?p=461460#p461460

TL;DR: So they primarily want to expand the userbase with this update and that good, smart and understandable. We all will profit from it in the long run. It still sucks for many people in the short term, but I guess that's just the price we have to pay (or not, because there's not need to upgrade if you only use Reason like chimp_spanner put so well in his post above).
appreciate it!
https://lastalternative.bandcamp.com
:reason: 10.4 | iMac (27" Retina 5K, late 2015): OS Mojave, i7 Skylake @ 4GHz, 1TB SSD, 32 GB RAM, Radeon M395X | lots of sick gear

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Last Alternative
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Post 05 Sep 2019

moneykube wrote:
05 Sep 2019
more cowbell?
Someone should write a song with NOTHING. BUT. COWBELL. :cool:
I definitely wanna hear that! New challenge maybe?
https://lastalternative.bandcamp.com
:reason: 10.4 | iMac (27" Retina 5K, late 2015): OS Mojave, i7 Skylake @ 4GHz, 1TB SSD, 32 GB RAM, Radeon M395X | lots of sick gear

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zoidkirb
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Post 05 Sep 2019

antic604 wrote:
05 Sep 2019

Isn't that - sort of - what virgin territory does, though?

virgin territories in cubase is akin to reasons automation i believe.
imo, reason's automation is far slicker, faster , and intuitive than cubases. now that we have curves theres even less reason to prefer cubase automation style.

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Last Alternative
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Post 05 Sep 2019

Does the 1st person to post in page 50 get a prize?
https://lastalternative.bandcamp.com
:reason: 10.4 | iMac (27" Retina 5K, late 2015): OS Mojave, i7 Skylake @ 4GHz, 1TB SSD, 32 GB RAM, Radeon M395X | lots of sick gear

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boingy
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Post 06 Sep 2019

guitfnky wrote:
05 Sep 2019
sleep1979 wrote:
05 Sep 2019
this will go on and on
no it won’t. one day, the earth will be swallowed by the sun, and we’ll all perish in a fiery hellscape. 😌
Not everything will perish. Cockroaches will survive, and also the whiny parts of this forum.

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MrFigg
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Post 06 Sep 2019

Last Alternative wrote:
05 Sep 2019
moneykube wrote:
05 Sep 2019
more cowbell?
Someone should write a song with NOTHING. BUT. COWBELL. :cool:
I definitely wanna hear that! New challenge maybe?
There you go man. Get your entry in.
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=7513036&hilit=More ... +challenge
丰2ॐ

Yonatan
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Post 06 Sep 2019

If the dooms day prophesies has ceased a bit and the community eased a bit until 25th, then we might even get an livestream down the line, if not off the bat, but maybe at some point update? Who knows. Hope all goes well bringing the AU version of Rack Plugin.
The upgrade starting to grow on me a bit.
That Sweeper device is sweeping me off my feet, and the mixer devices can become very useful in the rack in combinators, especially with their mix blend knob added. Still find me wanting more workflow adds to sequencer, although what is being added is very welcomed. Keep `em coming. :)

RobBarnett
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Post 06 Sep 2019

Does anyone know if there are any restrictions/limitations/functionality differences in the Rack VST if you own the Reason Intro licence as opposed to the Full Reason licence?

If not, would it make sense for folks who use other DAWs and plan to only use the Rack VST (not the Reason DAW) to buy the R11 Intro licence($69) rather than upgrade Reason ($129)

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chimp_spanner
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Post 06 Sep 2019

antic604 wrote:
05 Sep 2019
chimp_spanner wrote:
05 Sep 2019
...Automation is super easy (clips and static values NEED to be in Cubase like, yesterday)...
Isn't that - sort of - what virgin territory does, though?

Nah, doesn't work :( If you set the filter cutoff of a synth where you want it, and then automate with virgin territories, the value will "hang" at whatever the last point of automation was. There's no way to get it to snap back to any initial or starting value. The only way to do it is draw a point at the start of the track to establish "zero". Then draw a point where you want automation to start, another where you want it to end, and then go crazy in the space in between. Reason's system is way, way better.

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zoidkirb
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Post 06 Sep 2019

RobBarnett wrote:
06 Sep 2019
Does anyone know if there are any restrictions/limitations/functionality differences in the Rack VST if you own the Reason Intro licence as opposed to the Full Reason licence?

If not, would it make sense for folks who use other DAWs and plan to only use the Rack VST (not the Reason DAW) to buy the R11 Intro licence($69) rather than upgrade Reason ($129)
Interesting idea. I wonder even if one can even own both licenses at once? Still, sweeper, chorus, mixer re's, grain are kinda worth the extra cost imo.

future-bit
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Post 06 Sep 2019

RobBarnett wrote:
06 Sep 2019
Does anyone know if there are any restrictions/limitations/functionality differences in the Rack VST if you own the Reason Intro licence as opposed to the Full Reason licence?

If not, would it make sense for folks who use other DAWs and plan to only use the Rack VST (not the Reason DAW) to buy the R11 Intro licence($69) rather than upgrade Reason ($129)
Only Intro devices will be available to you. No malstrom etc. (you can see the Intro 10 and full 10 comparisons). RE all available.

Now in our official store dj-store.ru an upgrade of 10 (i.e. 11) costs $80. You need to wait for discounts.

antic604

Post 06 Sep 2019

RobBarnett wrote:
06 Sep 2019
If not, would it make sense for folks who use other DAWs and plan to only use the Rack VST (not the Reason DAW) to buy the R11 Intro licence($69) rather than upgrade Reason ($129)
I believe you'd only have access to native devices in 11 Intro + REs you own, so for example no Grain & other stuff different between Intro vs. full version.

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Zac
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Post 06 Sep 2019

RobBarnett wrote:
06 Sep 2019
Does anyone know if there are any restrictions/limitations/functionality differences in the Rack VST if you own the Reason Intro licence as opposed to the Full Reason licence?

If not, would it make sense for folks who use other DAWs and plan to only use the Rack VST (not the Reason DAW) to buy the R11 Intro licence($69) rather than upgrade Reason ($129)
Here's what MattiasHG said over on kvr forum (as anosou):

The five new effect devices are included in Reason and Reason Suite, not Reason Intro. You get Reason Rack Plugin with all these versions but the devices in Reason Rack Plugin are the same as the corresponding version you bought. There will be a detailed version breakdown available when we launch.

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miscend
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Post 06 Sep 2019

antic604 wrote:
04 Sep 2019
Last Alternative wrote:
04 Sep 2019
Has anyone beta tested yet? Keep us in the loop. Maybe make some YouTube videos for us.
Everything is public so its cool with PH I hope.
Mattias said not to post videos until beta is out of logging phase.
And I can understand it, because it can get slow or choppy at places.

But other than the issues that are already known publically (e.g. no MIDI out or keyboard focus in Rack VST) - it works great :)
No NDA this time?

pquenin
Posts: 57
Joined: 31 May 2016

Post 06 Sep 2019

This R11 upgrade is a shame for Reason users that use it as their main DAW.
This should be a 10.5 version for free and the Reason Rack Plugin should be a new product you can buy separatly.
But I think that technically, you have to install a full Reason to be able to use the plugin.

antic604

Post 06 Sep 2019

miscend wrote:
06 Sep 2019
No NDA this time?
There is NDA obviously, but practically all info is published on their website and Mattias (or other Reason Studios employees) replies to questions anyway. Videos is different thing, because it can show sluggishness (due to logging) or crashs and it's easy to interpret this out of context. It's probably also important if you're factual and reasonable, so there's a big difference between "Rack VST doesn't have MIDI out - yet, I hope" and "what a bunch of morons to not include MIDI out, not upgrading this piece of s**t" :)

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miscend
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Post 06 Sep 2019

Raveshaper wrote:
04 Sep 2019
dannyF wrote:
04 Sep 2019
Yep. No upgrade for me either.

I have a feeling its over over for this application.

I wonder what will happen to all our REs ?
That is a very good question. Anyone who actually bought extensions should be thinking about that.

I'm just going to dump the majority of my thoughts as one mega-rant. Feel free to skip if that's not your thing.

I should also say up front that I don't use Reason anymore. I debugged the remaining quirks in my control surfaces recently, so I had to open the app to do that. But I find the app so defiantly contrarian to getting work done in the way I want to work that I just close it without writing anything. That out of the way, here we go.

In the event that RS gets in enough trouble that they can't continue operating, what would happen to everyone's investment? If they released a final patch to deactivate their authentication, this would also effectively remove the purchase confirmation of their DLC. Everyone would equally have full access to every unit ever listed in the shop. But, in order to actually have those units, you have to download them from the servers. The servers are already rather anemic when downloading a new update, let alone a lot of devices. So the traffic jams of people trying to grab devices before the servers get taken offline would mean everyone loses. Then once the servers are yanked because there's no capital to keep them running, what you have is what you managed to download. Also, you could never uninstall your copy or you would effectively wipe all of those devices from it. That also goes for transferring to a new computer, etc. Obviously you could technically do it in some way, the files would be there, but it would require a lot of DIY technical stuff with no guarantee of success. Plus, if RS were to close shop, that puts all of the third party people out of work as well.

It's a bit of an all encompassing mess.

I have never purchased a single RE because when they announced the format it sounded like a desperate move to shore up the brand while deflecting away from much needed improvements to the core product. Also, I didn't have faith in the future of the company and didn't like the way any of their modules sounded after hearing what other hosts were providing out of the box. I only upgraded to 9.5 because I would be able to collaborate with someone I wanted to work with, but considering most of that never ended up taking place I actually regret the purchase. But I'm not the only one.

Right now, every video I can find about the announced 11 update is portraying it for what it objectively is: "not that much is new, the changes are too little too late, and/or the only reason I'll buy it is so I'm not out the money I put into the extensions." They're not buying the spin.

A general storm cloud of being unimpressed, confused, betrayed, concerned, indifferent, or having already moved on a long time ago is brewing across KVR, Reddit, this forum, and even places I can't talk about. It's universal at this point; everywhere you look. I have never seen this community so singularly unified in its rejection of a brand direction for PH/RS as I have this past couple of weeks -- with the exception of when the PUF first closed.

So, given all of these things piling up, those heavily invested in RE should be thinking about this rather carefully and should be invested in what the future holds. I don't think it's a matter of "at least I can salvage my spending by getting 11", but a matter of "how can this product be saved when everyone leaves".

Take a breath and imagine Verdane's perspective.

This product is 20 years old, basically. Things look, feel, and sound "old" as some have said. I agree. Many who used to use it and even some who developed for it have left. Business partnerships have fizzled out over and over to the point that ReWire, a format the company helped pioneer, has been completely deprecated in favor of Ableton Link.

Providing a VST wrapper for the rack is a bold move, but that has some serious flaws too. The use of the rack in any modern DAW currently presents an immediate halt to progress in a track when compared to the tools and workflow that exist in those packages. Tedious cabling that is mandatory to accomplish any sound design, or manual parameter adjustments that have no text input of values, unscaled rasterized graphics that are (in some cases) the same as when they first appeared on Windows 98, and so on. These are things that are limitations to how a person works instead of limitations to how a person creates.

In the time that phones have gone from XT9 Nokia bricks to all-glass Samsung waterproof smartphones, and visual displays have gone from leaded glass beige CRTs that weigh 100 lbs to feather light flat screens you can hang on your wall, and the internet has gone from barely broadband to broadband wifi, and batteries have gone from charging all day to 40W fast charging... the stock devices carried over from the first four releases of Reason have not changed at all.

With those other products, you know what you're purchasing because the value is clearly there. Things are improving and changing, sometimes in innovative or distinctive ways. Backward compatibility is great and all, but do you really want or need to take 20 years to finish songs? It's nice, but impractical and underscores the fact that Reason is meant for people who never intend to finish anything, while other more modern packages are used by people intent on publishing their work.

Imagine making calls on a phone that didn't prioritize clear communication, or seeing visuals on a display that didn't care about refresh rate or color accuracy. A product that knows it's just kinda sorta a thing, like shoes without soles -- meant for standing, not walking -- and likes it that way. But I digress.

I can pretty much guarantee that the first wave of major complaints will be from users of other DAWs saying they're seeing a massive hit in their song project performance when the rack is loaded in. If history has taught us anything, it's that the optimization is total garbage.

All of this stuff can be debated, of course, and I know people will. But the subjectivity of the music a person creates has to be separated from the objectivity of what the product of Reason is when comparing with other packages that it can now be loaded directly into.

Simply put, Reason will not stack up to what is out there. It will get eaten alive. People who explore other hosts will eventually grow to see all the stuff they bought in RE format to be effectively obsolete once they master their new tools. Not everyone, but a lot of people will eventually get to that point.

People will lose their investments anyway. Whether they take it along or not.

But back to Verdane's perspective. Look at everything that's going on, look at these challenges facing the brand image and the product at its objective face value for what it is in these modern times, then pretend you're one of those VC guys and ask yourself "who would want to buy this to take it off my hands".

You're not buying the name, just look at the state of the reputation right now. Plus, the name people know is being retired. That would be the only reason to purchase it, knowing full well that you will have to pour a ton of funding into bringing the idea behind the product up to speed with what's out there. It's a non-starter. Now, purchasing it is purely an investment in taking on a lot of distrust, bad blood, ill will, etc., and who wants to deal with that.

I think that Verdane is holding a lemon and I think by how rushed this announcement has been it signals an even bigger rush to sell. PH had 20 years and did nothing. I think Verdane is just as unimpressed as everyone else. The name change is damage control so the buyer will be more receptive to the unfamiliar brand name. Just my analysis.

What will happen to all the stuff people bought from the shop, indeed.

How about: where has all of you guys' and gals' money been going this whole time? How about that one.

That's the question driving so many to say "thanks, I think I will leave". And that's terrific!
Only by getting out of a bad relationship can you begin to heal. I can't wait to hear all the music people will actually finish in their next DAW(s) of choice! Seriously, I really am happy about everyone branching out and moving on. (You know who you are)

The good thing is everybody can make their own choices and think how they want. This has all been what I think so I'm done talking about it now.
Wow you're over thinking and over complicating things. Reason is simply a tool to make music. Most people aren't too invested on what's going on behind the scenes, they just want something that allows them to make their music. If Reason ceases to be creatively useful or competitive enough compared to other tools, it will simply crash out the market, the employees will just find new jobs and the users will all move to other music making tools. It won't be the first or the last popular software to crash out the market, remember Netscape Navigator? Life still goes on. But for now I still find Reason to be a very useful piece of software.

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Kalm
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Post 06 Sep 2019

miscend wrote:
06 Sep 2019
Raveshaper wrote:
04 Sep 2019


That is a very good question. Anyone who actually bought extensions should be thinking about that.

I'm just going to dump the majority of my thoughts as one mega-rant. Feel free to skip if that's not your thing.

How about: where has all of you guys' and gals' money been going this whole time? How about that one.

That's the question driving so many to say "thanks, I think I will leave". And that's terrific!
Only by getting out of a bad relationship can you begin to heal. I can't wait to hear all the music people will actually finish in their next DAW(s) of choice! Seriously, I really am happy about everyone branching out and moving on. (You know who you are)

The good thing is everybody can make their own choices and think how they want. This has all been what I think so I'm done talking about it now.
Wow you're over thinking and over complicating things. Reason is simply a tool to make music. Most people aren't too invested on what's going on behind the scenes, they just want something that allows them to make their music. If Reason ceases to be creatively useful or competitive enough compared to other tools, it will simply crash out the market, the employees will just find new jobs and the users will all move to other music making tools. It won't be the first or the last popular software to crash out the market, remember Netscape Navigator? Life still goes on. But for now I still find Reason to be a very useful piece of software.
Look man, people are torn right now, I'm torn. Used Reason since 4 and supported every upgrade till things got sketchy with 10. Your way of viewing things implies that if it crashes and burns, then so be it. Many of us don't want it to crash and burn because what Reason brings to the table. Switching to another DAW to make music will not be easy at all. It could change my whole course of viewing production. It's like if Apple went out of business so loyal customers now must try to find the best PC, Do I go Chromebook, Windows, Linux, but NOTHING is like Apple.

It's way too conflicting and unnerving for it to simply be a walk away scenario. Personally, it'll take me time to really decide on what DAW to try next cause I hate producing in the insert pop-up window mindset after using Reason.
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two shoes
Posts: 253
Joined: 13 Jul 2018

Post 06 Sep 2019

Last Alternative wrote:
04 Sep 2019
Propeller Studio is giving us lunch meat and charging for steak. They don’t even answer my questions. Reason is behind the times and never catches up. I feel like a hostage with all the REs I bought. To think they won’t spend all their time now on RVST improvements is absurd. It’s a small company and that is their new cash cow. They made it clear core functionality and overhaul is last priority. They changed for the worst and there’s no end in sight. So fuck this company! I’m over it.
Pretty much my thoughts exactly. The version 11 update was such a huge middle finger to everyone on this forum and elsewhere online who actually care about the product that “Reason Studios” will never see another penny of revenue from me just on principle.

Even in the unlikely scenario that they actually reverse course, rededicate all human and financial resources to fixing the core product, drop the asinine mobile and RVST programs, and generally manage to pull their heads out of their own bungholes, I STILL WOULD NOT GIVE THEM A PENNY unless Nicklas was fired and we got a groveling, please please forgive us type apology from the new CEO, presumably someone who actually gives a flying f%&* about music.

Before the v11 announcement I was excited and couldn’t wait to see the new hi-res GUI, brand new sequencer, and all new stock and m-class devices, there was zero doubt in my mind I’d be upgrading the day it came out. After watching the announcement video, some reflection, and reading and seeing some of the pathetic follow up attempts at justifying and rationalizing the utterly bizarre and indefensible development decisions made with regards to v11, I’m pretty sure they’ve lost a customer for life. Amazing the difference a two minute video can make. Great marketing guys - now I despise you with every fiber of my being!

I have never in my life been so disgusted with a software company as I am right now with Propellerhead and if the new CEO we’re here right now I’d spit on the ground and congratulate him for destroying the company in his first two months on the job. What a clown, I actually feel sorry for the props employees who’ve had to implement his “vision” knowing the whole time he’s leading them right off a cliff.

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guitfnky
Posts: 1930
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 06 Sep 2019

two shoes wrote:
06 Sep 2019
Even in the unlikely scenario that they actually reverse course, rededicate all human and financial resources to fixing the core product, drop the asinine mobile and RVST programs, and generally manage to pull their heads out of their own bungholes, I STILL WOULD NOT GIVE THEM A PENNY unless Nicklas was fired and we got a groveling, please please forgive us type apology from the new CEO, presumably someone who actually gives a flying f%&* about music.

Before the v11 announcement I was excited and couldn’t wait to see the new hi-res GUI, brand new sequencer, and all new stock and m-class devices, there was zero doubt in my mind I’d be upgrading the day it came out. After watching the announcement video, some reflection, and reading and seeing some of the pathetic follow up attempts at justifying and rationalizing the utterly bizarre and indefensible development decisions made with regards to v11, I’m pretty sure they’ve lost a customer for life. Amazing the difference a two minute video can make. Great marketing guys - now I despise you with every fiber of my being!

I have never in my life been so disgusted with a software company as I am right now with Propellerhead and if the new CEO we’re here right now I’d spit on the ground and congratulate him for destroying the company in his first two months on the job. What a clown, I actually feel sorry for the props employees who’ve had to implement his “vision” knowing the whole time he’s leading them right off a cliff.
you can’t actually believe the new CEO had that large an impact on Reason 11...tell me you’re joking?

the chances that the Reason dev team was just waiting around to find out if there was going to be a new CEO before they got to work on R11 is literally zero. the chances they were already nearly done with their work before he came on is almost certain.

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