Announcing Reason 11

[guitfnky]

I've always found a way to make music no matter what means I had available. Imagine that!

In other words, a poor craftsman blames his tools.

this seems rather dismissive. you can put up walls with a hammer, but you can’t do it as quickly as the next guy, when he’s got a nail gun—it doesn’t matter how good you are. tools don’t replace talent, but they are necessary.

[LittleBoy]

In all fairness this doesn't count. DP to Reason is a step up not a step down. I'm talking about the big boys. DP, Waveform, MuTools, Acid Pro, Samplitude etc. are not serious competitors to the programs I listed.

Lol... Danny Elfman uses DP. It's been used on big budget movies. I don't know which multiverse you live in where Fl Studio and Bitwig are big boys compared to DP and Samplitude.

The list of composers who use DP is huge.

[NekujaK]

Reason Rack as a VST? Okay, I get how this is kinda cool, even though it's not something I particularly care about. But c'mon, let's not make a big fanfare and call this Reason 11. The VST has nothing to do with Reason directly - it's basically a new product offering. The few meager improvements they made to actual Reason core is worth no more than a point release.

This is really two separate product releases:
- Reason Rack VST 1.0
- Reason 10.5

Bundling these two things together and calling them Reason 11 is just a way to justify a higher price point for a pretty anemic upgrade, which I find a little insulting.

If I want to use the Rack as a VST, then just let me pay for that product separately. Meanwhile, put some substantial and much-needed improvements into Reason, and I'll gladly pay a premium for the upgrade.

But instead, they give us this? Oh please...

[reggie1979]

This release certainly is not going to 11

[miscend]

Guys, do you realize, this could mean a huge flood of rack extensions in the future!?!

How? I don't see Ableton Live users buying new Rack Extensions just to use in the Reason Rack. Maybe if they were cheap like a pint of lager but they're not.

[LittleBoy]

Reason Rack as a VST? Okay, I get how this is kinda cool, even though it's not something I particularly care about. But c'mon, let's not make a big fanfare and call this Reason 11. The VST has nothing to do with Reason directly - it's basically a new product offering. The few meager improvements they made to actual Reason core is worth no more than a point release.

This is really two separate product releases:
- Reason Rack VST 1.0
- Reason 10.5

Bundling these two things together and calling them Reason 11 is just a way to justify a higher price point for a pretty anemic upgrade, which I find a little insulting.

If I want to use the Rack as a VST, then just let me pay for that product separately. Meanwhile, put some substantial and much-needed improvements into Reason, and I'll gladly pay a premium for the upgrade.

But instead, they give us this? Oh please...

Nothing to add.

[Luxuria]

Is Propellerhead shifting away from being a DAW and into being a VST company?

https://www.propellerheads.com/blog/ann ... ct-manager

Quote : "Does this news mean we’re abandoning Reason as a standalone music production software? Of course not! Reason 11 is much more than Reason Rack Plugin though."

Actions speak louder then words.

The amount of time between R10 and R11 was the longest for the company.

In that time we see they did 6 workflow improvements and 2 new effects devices.

We also see yet another device being sold separately and Reason is now a VST.

Yeah, Reason is now a VST company. The rebranding indicative. Propellerhead = DAW company. Reason Studios = VST company.

Don't be fooled by their lies.

[parma]

As a long-time user and someone that desperately wants to do everything in Reason, this update is a huge disappointment. I've never seen a company with its own competing product essentially push users to use a different platform. The dearth of improvements to its own sequencer is sad. Same for the untouched and long-in-the-tooth instruments and effects. Aside from Grain (which is a great) and maybe Europa, I don't see what the draw would be for new users to get Reason to use as a VST anyway. Everything else is so outdated and, more importantly, pretty much covered by any other DAW's stock plugins. I mean, just as an example, loops and slicing is done sooo much better by Ableton. That Props haven't integrated Recycle into Reason as part of Dr. Rex still boggles my mind.

I see people comparing Reason to Komplete - that's not a very kind comparison for Reason if you ask me. Komplete has many more forward-thinking instruments and effects. And Ableton Suite blows Live Standard plus Reason VST out of the water in terms of up-to-date sound processing and unique sequencing. Have you guys seen some of the MaxForLive patches available? Sound design heaven.

I wanted to see Reason grow in its capabilities. It's a bit daft that the Rack VST is VST3 only while the actual application is still stuck on 2.4. Really?!

And MIDI out from VSTs was one of the most requested features and it's (inexplicably to me) not there. C'mon Reason Studios! Get with 2010!

This update provides very little to people that work solely in Reason. A few overdue improvements. That's it. There should be a nice long list. Without the Rack VST this is a point release at best. At the very least, they should include the new instrument in the Standard version not just the Suite.

Look, its cool that Reason can finally be used as a VST but to make that pretty much the sole reason to update is a bit of a slap in the face to Reason-only users. I know the answer to this is "then don't update" but I can still be disappointed in the way Reason seems to be headed.

[Luxuria]

Reason Rack as a VST? Okay, I get how this is kinda cool, even though it's not something I particularly care about. But c'mon, let's not make a big fanfare and call this Reason 11. The VST has nothing to do with Reason directly - it's basically a new product offering. The few meager improvements they made to actual Reason core is worth no more than a point release.

This is really two separate product releases:
- Reason Rack VST 1.0
- Reason 10.5

Bundling these two things together and calling them Reason 11 is just a way to justify a higher price point for a pretty anemic upgrade, which I find a little insulting.

If I want to use the Rack as a VST, then just let me pay for that product separately. Meanwhile, put some substantial and much-needed improvements into Reason, and I'll gladly pay a premium for the upgrade.

But instead, they give us this? Oh please...

Nothing to add.

Right! Am at the wrong forum because I thought this was the place for fans of a DAW called Reason.

[Ad0]

Any chance of getting the SSL mixer as a plugin? This is software, anything is possible.

Should be possible but it involves some work. Look at Harrison Mix Bus etc.

Guys, do you realize, this could mean a huge flood of rack extensions in the future!?!

Why would they? Now that people are encouraged to use a different DAW, old Reason users will now buy VSTs instead. This can swing both ways

The amount of time between R10 and R11 was the longest for the company.

In that time we see they did 6 workflow improvements and 2 new effects devices.

We also see yet another device being sold separately and Reason is now a VST.

Yeah, Reason is now a VST company. The rebranding indicative. Propellerhead = DAW company. Reason Studios = VST company.

Don't be fooled by their lies.

I think they spent a great deal of time making VST work properly in Reason, but at the same time they rewrote the whole architecture and audio engine to be modular / separated from audio buffers so it could easily be hosted anywhere.

I think it's really cool that they made it a VST, but it should have been a 10.5 update. Or at the very least the 10.5 should have had the workflow improvements and VST3 support.

[RobBarnett]

As a dedicated Reason user (I dont own another DAW) this upgrade has left me underwhelmed.
129€ for a handful of minor sequencer updates (which IMHO should have been in free point upgrades), RE versions of mixer devices I already have and a couple of phaser/flanger/chorus/filter effects which I can already achieve with other REs and VSTs. Not worth the spend.
Alternatively i can spend 249€ for the above plus a suite of REs. Some of which I've already paid for and others I dont want or need. Again, not worth the spend.

Question for @MattiasHG, is there a discounted downgrade price from full Reason 10 to Reason 11 Intro. This way I could retain my RE purchases for use in the Reason VST3 plugin domain and invest the rest of the money I would normally have spent on the upgrade on a DAW with the features I want.

Been a Reason User since v4 and upgraded every time. Feels like the company is doing a full 360 and going back to the "use Reason with your FAVOURITE DAW" scenario.

Today I feel I made the wrong choice when I selected Reason over Ableton, Cubase, Logic, Pro Tools.

[DJMaytag]

I’m hoping it’s not too much too late, but I hope this encourages developers, notably the smaller ones, to continue to develop RE’s that now can be used in other DAW’s. If Reason 9.5/10 was all about bringing VST to Reason, the Reason 11 is all about bringing RE’s to other DAW’s. If you want improved and more RE’s, this is VITAL to the future of Reason. IMHO, that’s gotta be priority #1 for them and anyone who’s committed to developing RE’s.

Reason Suite? Hard pass. I don’t own any of the instruments/devices in that Suite upgrade, apart from the free Drum Sequencer player. Complex-1 and the Poly Sequencer look interesting, but not enough to spend and extra $120. I’ll wait until there is a sale on Poly Sequencer. This Suite option is similar to Suite option in Ableton, which I’ve also had little to no interest in.

I’m a full time Reason user now because of what I can in Reason with a combination of RE’s and VST’S that I couldn’t do in Cubase. I dumped Cubase but will always keep it around for legacy projects, but I don’t foresee any need to go back to Cubase. I wish the Reason Rack VST thing could have been a separate release & charge. $89 for the Reason 11 upgrade, an extra $40 for the Reason Rack add-on. I hate to be a complainer, but I do feel like I’m paying for something that I most definitely won’t ever use.

Bottom line: I’m upgrading because I see the importance of supporting the company that makes the product I’m using. After seeing a few developers fold in recent years, it’s better for me to shell out $129 in support of RS than to see them go out of business (not that I think they’re even remotely close to doing so).

[parma]

Today I feel I made the wrong choice when I selected Reason over Ableton, Cubase, Logic, Pro Tools.

This is what I feel right now. I left Ableton because it looked like Reason was fully embracing the DAW route. Doesn't seem like that anymore. I guess the lesson is that you should pick your tools for what they are and not what they could be.

[owlymane]

https://www.propellerheads.com/blog/ann ... ct-manager

Quote : "Does this news mean we’re abandoning Reason as a standalone music production software? Of course not! Reason 11 is much more than Reason Rack Plugin though."

Actions speak louder then words.

The amount of time between R10 and R11 was the longest for the company.

In that time we see they did 6 workflow improvements and 2 new effects devices.

We also see yet another device being sold separately and Reason is now a VST.

Yeah, Reason is now a VST company. The rebranding indicative. Propellerhead = DAW company. Reason Studios = VST company.

Don't be fooled by their lies.

Exactly how I feel bro. The longest wait, and istead of, IMHO, play it smart and make it a 10.5 release, for them to have more time and bring us a solid 11 update, worth its version. No. That's Reason 11. In our faces.

And you know what, I'm going even deeper. The reason why I believe it's not really a smart move for this type of release, at this time, is for the following:

(+) Indeed they are satisfying people that actually use ReWire and/or Other Daw users that always wanted to include Reason in their work.

(-) When people will start using Reason as a rack in other DAWs like it's advertising you to do, Reason's future "workflow" versions will have much less impact on people since by that time a good majority of old reason users will start discovering the wonders of the other daws' sequencer and workflow, they won't be interested in upgrading to the next reason versions where they will deal with workflow. People will say "yeah, it's a sequencer update, but my DAW's sequencer is better, plus I have the rack of Reason, no need to upgrade"

I would've focused on workflow and sequencer for current Reason users, AND THEN, release a later update that puts the Rack to other DAWs. This would have pleased the reason based users, kept them, and then attract the new outer customers.

I'm not hating. Just disappointed because I've expected my workflow to improve, not to waste my time getting used to another DAW.

[JdA57]

I really don't get people when they say that they'll sell Reason to buy another DAW. The whole point of this update is to use Reason in another DAW. Why are they selling Reason then? Just buy the other DAW, update Reason and use it inside the DAW you prefer.

Reason just became one of the most powerful plugins on the market, if not the most powerful. Why the hell would you sell it?

Some people are really weird and eternally unsatisfied. I, for one, am very happy with this update. I'm very existed at the idea of using Reason in StudioOne.

Those are mostly people who do music production as a hobby, and/or are on extremely limited budgets. For everyone else (read: professionals, those with looser budgets), I'm willing to wager they see the value or aren't that miffed.

Sorry EnochLight, I read your post. Normally I don't do this since a long time.

Because it seems you know all about: Can you please explain your interesting statement? I'm very interested :

"Those are mostly people who do music production as a hobby, and/or are on extremely limited budgets. For everyone else (read: professionals, those with looser budgets), I'm willing to wager they see the value or aren't that miffed."

[parma]

(-) When people will start using Reason as a rack in other DAWs like it's advertising you to do, Reason's future "workflow" versions will have much less impact on people since by that time a good majority of old reason users will start discovering the wonders of the other daws' sequencer and workflow, they won't be interested in upgrading to the next reason versions where they will deal with workflow. People will say "yeah, it's a sequencer update, but my DAW's sequencer is better, plus I have the rack of Reason, no need to upgrade"

This is my big fear for Reason's future as well.

"Why should we waste resources updating our sequencer when x% of people are using the Rack VST within another sequencer?"

[miscend]

I will never get used to the rebranding. The old Reason logo was so cool. Propellerhead was a great name. Literally overnight the product has gone from "Propellerhead's Reason" to "Reason Studios Reason". It's doesn't quite flow off the tongue as well.

I would say 'Reason by Reason Studios' similar to 'Europa by Reason' (which I'm guessing will become Europa by Reason Studios?) if I care to say more than just 'Reason.'

But I think the point is that we don't have to say all that. Reason now encompasses it all, the software and the people. Maybe in print you may see 'Reason by Reason Studios' but not necessary during conversation. May not even be necessary to use the 'Studios' part when referring to the company in conversation. I imagine people will be saying "the Reason team", "the Reason devs", "The Reason guys", "The folks over at Reason" etc.

For people who want to keep saying "props" you could argue that it isn't entirely wrong in the sense that "propeller head" or "prop head" is still a term used to describe someone highly skilled, knowledgeable, enthusiastic, in tech. Google's new employees are called "nooglers" and they have to wear a propeller head hat. So it's also not wrong to have a nickname for employees at a company that isn't the company name.

I'm just glad we don't have to change domain names

The whole rebranding makes it seem like the new leadership is upending the tea table and setting a new course for the future. But branding was the very least of this company's problems. Imagine if Steinberg changed their name to Cubase Software, wouldn't that be unnecessary?

Then there's a company called Ableton. Most people call their DAW software "Ableton" when it's supposed to be called 'Live' or even 'Ableton Live' in full.

[Luxuria]

So what's the future beyond Reason 11 guys? If Reason VST takes off, what's next?

Can't really improve on the VST besides add more RE's to it right?

You can't expect the small team at Pheads is going to support the VST and the DAW equally?

With verdane and the new CEO, I honestly think this V11 stunt is preparation to sell the company off.

[owlymane]

And, let's not forget the HUGE competitor, Komplete 12.

[tt_lab]

Not impressed by this upgrade, I was hopping for more workflow updates too. I think I might be using the rack vst inside mpc software, that sounds sweet.
But I am curious about one thing.
Say another daw user buys reason 11 to get the rack vst...will these people be upgrading to reason 12? Why? they already have the vst bridge and can load a lot of REs into it and have the natives with it, even if they buy the Reason Intro they get some goodies, but after that what does reason 12 will have to offer them? Just thinking out loud.

[miscend]

So what's the future beyond Reason 11 guys? If Reason VST takes off, what's next?

Can't really improve on the VST besides add more RE's to it right?

You can't expect the small team at Pheads is going to support the VST and the DAW equally?

With verdane and the new CEO, I honestly think this V11 stunt is preparation to sell the company off.

It's possible that Reason Rack doesn't get updated any further once all announced features such as AU support are implemented. That's just how Props work. Recycle is hardly ever updated. Certain features within Reason itself are never updated.

[mreese80]

Trash update imo. Still nothing about real-time audio slicing for Reason yet. It's been almost 4 years since it appeared in daws. Pitiful. I wont upgrade for the ability to use reason as a vst. F that

[miscend]

I'm curious about CPU usage for Reason Rack. Is there any chance that running rack extensions in DAWs like Reaper could see CPU usage benefits over running them inside Reason?

[Arrant]

Firmly in the disappointed camp here, although I can understand the business thinking behind it.
Had to watch the videos a few times to see that there was actually a new Reason version in there and not just a VST plugin.
The one killer feature of this release is aimed at users of other DAWs, and does absolutely nada for users who are using Reason only.

I like the new crossfades (never became friendly with how they worked before), improved sequencer zoom (yay, now give us rack zoom already) and rackable SSL components, but come on! There is no way I'm going to pay €129 for that. The only decent thing to do would be to include these features in a point update and have the people who actually want the rack as a VST - which I can totally understand - cover the costs.

[Heigen5]

The Props have added ghost notes and now all the new sequencer features and people act up like they haven't done so. There has been overall about 7 new sequencer related new features in the 2019 - and that's quiet a lot IMO.