Announcing Reason 11

[KarmaFunkarma]

I'd just like to say that we're not all disappointed. I'm absolutely chuffed.
This will make Reason so much more usable for me and I'm sure I am not alone.

For those of you who wanted track freeze. Stick the rack in another DAW and you've got "Rack Freeze". Absolutely top banana!

Totally agree. For me personally, I'll start to use and more importantly to Props/Reason Studios, spend money on Reason again.

In a larger context, this is a brilliant move as a company.

• New users will buy Reason simply to run it as a VST / AU

• Top-line sales will go up meaningfully

• The name change to Reason Studios supports the core brand much better than Propellerheads

• Which all leads to the PE owners selling the business at a higher multiple in the next couple of years.

Pretty much perfect if the plugins perform well out of the gate and they avoid any performance debacles like the ones that plagued them prior to 10.3.

[dusan.cani]

So the new Sweeper modulation effect has the same filters as the Europa...why they didn't introduce the completely new fresh inspiring filter algorhitms ?

[WongoTheSane]

Reason just became one of the most powerful plugins on the market, if not the most powerful.

this perfectly sums up why this version rubs a lot of us the wrong way.

Reason is a DAW first. it’s a plugin second. this upgrade telegraphs that they’re more interested in expanding its use as a plugin than they are in building out a mature, full-featured DAW. that’s very concerning to many of us.

Coming from Rebirth, I'd argue Reason is a Rack first, a DAW second.

[EnochLight]

I really don't get people when they say that they'll sell Reason to buy another DAW. The whole point of this update is to use Reason in another DAW. Why are they selling Reason then? Just buy the other DAW, update Reason and use it inside the DAW you prefer.

Reason just became one of the most powerful plugins on the market, if not the most powerful. Why the hell would you sell it?

Some people are really weird and eternally unsatisfied. I, for one, am very happy with this update. I'm very existed at the idea of using Reason in StudioOne.

Those are mostly people who do music production as a hobby, and/or are on extremely limited budgets. For everyone else (read: professionals, those with looser budgets), I'm willing to wager they see the value or aren't that miffed.

this upgrade telegraphs that they’re more interested in expanding its use as a plugin than they are in building out a mature, full-featured DAW. that’s very concerning to many of us.

I disagree. If all we had seen is Reason VST, then I'd agree 100%. But we didn't - we also got some core DAW workflow features added (most that have long been requested) as well as 2 new effect device updates for core Reason. They are clearly telegraphing that the core DAW is still a thing that they plan to keep on supporting.

On a other related note, despite a new CEO, Verdane venture capital, and Reason VST plugin, it bares mentioning that Reason alone is literally their top revenue generating product. It's literally what keeps the company in business. Thinking they're bailing on their core DAW doesn't add up with reality, IMHO.

4. Just wait for the point updates, surely there will be more down the line." Really guys? How many times are they going to pull this before you snap out of it? Phead's is sitting on a mountain of workflow improvements! They would rather let the other DAW's add them for you. Reason sequencer isn't ever getting the revamp it deserves.

Since this appears to be aimed towards me, I'll just say there's nothing to snap out of. Yes, it's only a handful of workflow improvements to core Reason DAW, but the fact that they are there (as well as two new long overdue updates to core effects), but it's been illustrated pretty clearly that they've switched to a regular point update model where new features are continually added during the major version product life. It's been this way since 6.0, so I'm not sure why people have suddenly forgot this. It's not like I'm (we) are under any sort of "spell".

Trust me, I'll be the first to say I'm pissed we didn't get proper track freeze or a scalable 4K/high dpi GUI/UX, etc, as well as a boatload of other features - but are we really that naive to think Reason version updates would be any different... after 19 years???!

[diminished]

So the new Sweeper modulation effect has the same filters as the Europa...why they didn't introduce the completely new fresh inspiring filter algorhitms ?

Because that would cost more resources, time and therefore money!

[Ted Pikul]

The Reason plug-in is a very smart business decision. Using the familiar Reason rack in Ableton Live or FL Studio could be a lot of fun. In particular, this will make it easier to incorporate the Reason devices into live performances in those hosts, which are much better suited to the task.

Also, the fact that the Reason plug-in cannot host VST's means that users will have to purchase rack extensions if they want to get new devices for the rack. Maybe this will expand the market for rack extensions?

Since I use Reason as my main host, I will probably skip this update. The new devices and workflow features are not important to me. But I am excited to see the community of Reason users expand in the coming years!

[electrofux]

So how long do you think this way takes. When it is out as a VST then it is out and the road does already end. It had to happen at some point.

that’s a good point. the downside now is, Reason users who use it as a VST primarily (not using Reason as their DAW), are going to have to be considered as far as future feature requests are concerned.

it’s not just a matter of opening Reason up for use as a VST, patting themselves on the back for a good job, then walking away—they’re going to have to contend with requests from two different sets of users, and I’m confident that what each user base will end up asking for will end up being very different.

they’ll have to figure out how to prioritize those requests, and if this release is any indication, I wouldn’t be surprised if Reason VST users get first crack at a lot of stuff.

There will definitly be some dev time needed to make this stable. I for one hope they dont mess up the whole remote control thing. Reason will be different to other plugins in that area. But when it is done it is done more or less.

If you had asked me what my personal wish for this update would be, i would have said session view. I might get it around the corner but i have doubts i will like it that way (because of the whole remotecontrol issue and the work needed to get my controllers working with a different DAW).

But in the end it is like every year. Props deliver the update, some like it (it is been a request for ages btw) and some dont and are dissapointed. I have gone through this on every update since 1.0 and have even been part of the angry crew but at some point you realize it doesnt make sense to expect your wishes to be prioritized as there are so many.

[tobypearce]

gotta throw my hat in with those who are a bit disappointed, sadly. the few workflow improvements that are there look great, but you don’t have to look far in this forum (which obviously Props are aware of) for many, many other suggestions that people really wanted. opening the rack to other DAWs is a smart move, sure, and technically, now, we’ll have access to all those features in other DAWs, but for all its weaknesses, I LIKE the workflow in Reason—I want to use THAT. now I have to consider buying, and learning another DAW if I want the best of both worlds, and don’t want to wait another two years for Reason to catch up.

I hope you can at least understand why many of us are underwhelmed by this update, @MattiasHG.

I think I'm on this page too. I've been with Reason since version 1, and used Logic for a couple of years about 6 years ago. But I came back to Reason because I feel at home with it - loyal to it.

It's too late to change what's included with Reason 11 but I'd really value a commitment to future improvements to the workflow of the core DAW itself. The workflow improvements in 11 are surely welcome but I can't help get the feeling that they were relatively easy to implement compared to the other new features 11 brings.

The upgrade path is also disappointing. Like many of the other loyal, long time Reason users on here, I have many of the 'extra' devices already. There really should be a dynamic upgrade path to suite. Fab Filter manage it just fine.

[Zac]

Thinking about it, I have R10 Lite from a controller purchase.

Will this get upgraded to R11 Lite? Will there be a R11 Lite? And if so, any path to R11 Intro if no freebie upgrade?

[diminished]

Thinking about it, I have R10 Lite from a controller purchase.

Will this get upgraded to R11 Lite? Will there be a R11 Lite? And if so, any path to R11 Intro if no freebie upgrade?

Mattias said there will be a R11 Lite, but it won't work as a VST inside another DAW.

Other than that, I'm curious about the answer in regards to the R10Lite-->R11Lite upgrade as well.

[chimp_spanner]

Super curious as to how MIDI will be implemented as a VST. Can I load one instance of the rack and send multiple MIDI channels to different devices, or is it one instance per instrument? I don't reeeally mind too much either way so long as the "wrapper" is low CPU and I won't be wasting resources by loading like 20 Reasons into memory!

[ShelLuser]

I'm upset. Why do duel DAW owner's get such a big priority in a FULL version release while we who are 1 DAW users dedicated to Reason have to sit in the backseat?

Generally speaking I fully agree with you, I also very much dislike the "milking process" (as I like to call it): who cares what you already own, get ready to purchase it ALL again! I also noticed this going on with their Rig collections; for me it was still very lucrative to grab a Rig (and it's definitely worth the money) but the fact remains that if you already own a lot of stuff... you risk overpaying.

But... I don't necessarily agree with the upgrade complaints. That is: I do agree but this is nothing new IMO. I started with 4 and eventually upgraded to 6 because it was a good deal (with all those Record devices getting into Reason). But then I stayed put again and only last weekend did I upgrade to 10. Simply because the amount of extra stuff became worth it (IMO) and I was very much interested in extras such as Europa & Parsec.

IMO there is nothing new here.... I got lucky that I get a freebie to 11 but after that I'm quite sure I won't be upgrading to 12 any time soon after release; I'll probably stay put until 15 or so comes out.

[guitfnky]

this upgrade telegraphs that they’re more interested in expanding its use as a plugin than they are in building out a mature, full-featured DAW. that’s very concerning to many of us.

I disagree. If all we had seen is Reason VST, then I'd agree 100%. But we didn't - we also got some core DAW workflow features added (most that have long been requested) as well as 2 new effect device updates for core Reason. They are clearly telegraphing that the core DAW is still a thing that they plan to keep on supporting.

On a other related note, despite a new CEO, Verdane venture capital, and Reason VST plugin, it bares mentioning that Reason alone is literally their top revenue generating product. It's literally what keeps the company in business. Thinking they're bailing on their core DAW doesn't add up with reality, IMHO.

I don’t think they’re bailing on the core DAW. this upgrade is objectively not focused primarily on the core DAW experience though. their marquee feature is VST support to use Reason in other DAWs. it’s the first thing you see when you go to the announcement page.

[joeyluck]

Also, so long Propellerhead - hello Reason Studios.

I will never get used to the rebranding. The old Reason logo was so cool. Propellerhead was a great name. Literally overnight the product has gone from "Propellerhead's Reason" to "Reason Studios Reason". It's doesn't quite flow off the tongue as well.

I would say 'Reason by Reason Studios' similar to 'Europa by Reason' (which I'm guessing will become Europa by Reason Studios?) if I care to say more than just 'Reason.'

But I think the point is that we don't have to say all that. Reason now encompasses it all, the software and the people. Maybe in print you may see 'Reason by Reason Studios' but not necessary during conversation. May not even be necessary to use the 'Studios' part when referring to the company in conversation. I imagine people will be saying "the Reason team", "the Reason devs", "The Reason guys", "The folks over at Reason" etc.

For people who want to keep saying "props" you could argue that it isn't entirely wrong in the sense that "propeller head" or "prop head" is still a term used to describe someone highly skilled, knowledgeable, enthusiastic, in tech. Google's new employees are called "nooglers" and they have to wear a propeller head hat. So it's also not wrong to have a nickname for employees at a company that isn't the company name.

I'm just glad we don't have to change domain names

[WongoTheSane]

Have some questions though.

1. Can tracks now be fully maximized to take advantage of your whole screen (or reasonably close to it to handle other GUI)?

2. As a VST plugin, can I still record audio tracks in Reason to use stuff like comping, slice edit, and pitch edit?

3. Is drag and drop of midi clips supported between DAWS? What about samples?

4. I'm assuming Reason is available as a VSTi. Is it also available as a VST, to be used as an effect processor?

5. Are their any midi channel limitations with VST. I remember Sonar used to have a limit of 16 channels with rewire a small amount.

1. Yes.
2. No, there's no sequencer in the plugin, just the Rack.
3. There are no clips (no sequencer). Samples can be loaded in instruments, like in the Reason Rack.
4. Yes.
5. It's omni, i.e. each instance of the plugin treats all incoming MIDI as the same channel.

[ShelLuser]

I'd just like to say that we're not all disappointed. I'm absolutely chuffed.
This will make Reason so much more usable for me and I'm sure I am not alone.

For those of you who wanted track freeze. Stick the rack in another DAW and you've got "Rack Freeze". Absolutely top banana!

Fully agreed. I am definitely hyped about the plugin as well. I've been using Reason inside Live ever since 4 and my entire workflow is build around that. I even went so far as to apply a 'Live backdrop' on my default Combinator because of it

This has the potential to completely change the way I work with all this, and I can't wait to have native support for the RPG8 within Live! Or any other midi control for that matter. Reason's scales & chords natively in Live? Or better: Note echo?!

Is it September already? No? Oh, still the same day as the original announcement? Darn

[boingy]

This has the potential to completely change the way I work with all this, and I can't wait to have native support for the RPG8 within Live! Or any other midi control for that matter. Reason's scales & chords natively in Live? Or better: Note echo?!

I'm not sure there will be MIDI out of the Reason Rack but it would sure be sweet if there was!

[16161d]

People are not thinking too much about the possibilities now of the SSL units being in the rack, where you will now likely have some CV patch points, and be able to place these devices anywhere now in your gain stage (and as many of them as you want), so this isn't a minor addition, to the doomsayers who are saying that they already have these features in the mix view.

And to the incredibly petty people talking about having their loyalty offended by owning a few of the RE's included in Reason Suite...

Reason Suite contains £1200 worth of RE's - Reason Suite is just £120 more expensive than a standard upgrade.

For £120 you're getting over £1200 worth of RE's. Essentially, you're paying 10% of what it would cost you separately.

I didn't include Scenic because I don't know how much that will cost yet but will probably follow the standard pricing of £89 that most of Props RE's cost, increasing the value of the bundle.

Most of the devices included in the bundle cost nearly that much. You would have to own 12-14 out of the included devices for it to be anywhere close to not being worth it, in which case if you own the majority of the devices in Reason Suite why are you complaining? All you're getting is additional devices that are still available to buy from the store if you want them, and you may not even want all of them, if you do then, even if you have 14 of them it may still end up being cheaper just buying Reason Suite.

The amount of money you would save buying Reason Suite is absolutely insane in terms of value, even if Props were to consider that you own a few of the devices, the reduction would be minimal in price. If you start applying discounts, there's pretty much nothing left for Props, who are already being incredibly generous in this offer. I don't think this update is aimed at anyone who has the majority of RE's already (but even so this offer might still benefit you), but it's embarrassing to go around saying that this offer is disloyal. You buying Rack Extensions funds development, that development has resulted in an update that will make Reason even more accessible than ever before, and provide this amazing deal to existing and new users, that is what your loyalty buys.

I hate the brand change though, absolutely terrible, Props was already such a strong brand and I wouldn't be surprised if the brand change hurts Props more than any feature of this update...

[hurricane]

Nice, Reason turned into Korg Gadget. I've got gadget but I don't use Gadget Sequencer, I just use the instruments in Logic. I imagine lots of people will buy Reason to do the same thing - that is, use the instruments and fx in their own DAW. This also reminds me of when Sega got out of the console business to focus on content. Seeing Sonic on a Nintendo console was jarring at first but now it's all good. Kept Sega alive.

AU support should have been ready for R11 launch though. Shame on them for not having it ready. As a Logic user, I'm not going to upgrade to R11 until AU support is ready, and I'm hoping it'll happen sooner rather than later. The enhancements to the reason app itself are very weak, and not worth the upgrade for those alone. SIX workflow improvements? C'mon guys. A new chorus and mod effect? Boring. Three fx devices based on the mixer? Yawn.

Anyway, I predict GUI resizing will come to the Reason Rack VST first.

Sucks for you hardcore Reason-only guys who don't want to use another DAW.

[Vyckeil]

I really don't get people when they say that they'll sell Reason to buy another DAW. The whole point of this update is to use Reason in another DAW. Why are they selling Reason then? Just buy the other DAW, update Reason and use it inside the DAW you prefer.

Reason just became one of the most powerful plugins on the market, if not the most powerful. Why the hell would you sell it?

Some people are really weird and eternally unsatisfied. I, for one, am very happy with this update. I'm very existed at the idea of using Reason in StudioOne.

Those are mostly people who do music production as a hobby, and/or are on extremely limited budgets. For everyone else (read: professionals, those with looser budgets), I'm willing to wager they see the value or aren't that miffed.

You make good points, but I still don't get why people would sell their licence since you can now use Reason with any other DAW with this update. Save up and buy the update later, or wait for the next version. The number one comment I heard was "I'm going to sell my licence and buy another DAW." That's the whole point if this update, so you can use Reason in another DAW!!!

I personally consider it a hobby despite spending way too much money on this hobby, and I'm not exactly swimming in money either. I just save most of my loose money and spend it on that because it makes me happy. That's the whole point of a hobby, to make me happy. If an simple version update, that nobody is forced to buy mind you, causes people to act this way, then maybe they need to change hobbies. Just my two cents.

[Creativemind]

Don't understand why many things are left unfinished in Reason though before they start adding more stuff. They add things and then just leave them. It's like they go, that's it, that's done, never touching the code for that again, even after many requests, let's look:-

Themes....still don't affect mixer and since incorporated, no more themes have been added and you still have to restart Reason to apply.
Spectrum EQ - Still can't open multiple at once (for comparison purposes) or see multi spectrum displays in the one EQ box + many other things that could be added.
Adjust Multiple Faders - But can't adjust multiple faders on the mix channels in the rack.
Slice Midi Notes - but can't join them back together again.
Browsers - Still can't sync and still can't add tags etc for more intuitive searching and no audio wave display.. Refresh button for the folders too.
Pitch Correction and Audio to Midi - Still both in monophonic, no polyphonic.
Europa - Can still only load one sample as a wavetable.
Audio - Since audio was added in Reason 6 you still can't bounce to mono.
Bounce in Place - Still no mono option for this either nor consolidating clips.
Re's - Still no Notes / Patterns / Loops to Track.
VST is added, then optimisation, next step should be VST 3 support, scan for VST's while Reason is still open and Multi-Out and Midi VST support.
Still no Kong or Combinator updates either that have been requested for years.

Don't get it. Why are things just left hanging?

[selig]

So the new Sweeper modulation effect has the same filters as the Europa...why they didn't introduce the completely new fresh inspiring filter algorhitms ?

Since you were't able to run audio through the Europa filters, these are "new" (at least to my way of thinking). And even in Europa, it would be a stretch to call those classic old-school filter types "new" and/or "Fresh" IMO.

[Loque]

Don't understand why many things are left unfinished in Reason though before they start adding more stuff. They add things and then just leave them. It's like they go, that's it, that's done, never touching the code for that again, even after many requests, let's look:-

Themes....still don't affect mixer and since incorporated, no more themes have been added and you still have to restart Reason to apply.
Spectrum EQ - Still can't open multiple at once (for comparison purposes) or see multi spectrum displays in the one EQ box + many other things that could be added.
Adjust Multiple Faders - But can't adjust multiple faders on the mix channels in the rack.
Slice Midi Notes - but can't join them back together again.
Browsers - Still can't sync and still can't add tags etc for more intuitive searching and no audio wave display.. Refresh button for the folders too.
Pitch Correction and Audio to Midi - Still both in monophonic, no polyphonic.
Europa - Can still only load one sample as a wavetable.
Audio - Since audio was added in Reason 6 you still can't bounce to mono.
Bounce in Place - Still no mono option for this either nor consolidating clips.
Re's - Still no Notes / Patterns / Loops to Track.
VST is added, then optimisation, next step should be VST 3 support, scan for VST's while Reason is still open and Multi-Out and Midi VST support.
Still no Kong or Combinator updates either that have been requested for years.

Don't get it. Why are things just left hanging?

A lot of the added devices are old ones, developed by others in cooperation. The Reason crew was working on Reason...

[guitfnky]

I really don't get people when they say that they'll sell Reason to buy another DAW. The whole point of this update is to use Reason in another DAW. Why are they selling Reason then? Just buy the other DAW, update Reason and use it inside the DAW you prefer.

Reason just became one of the most powerful plugins on the market, if not the most powerful. Why the hell would you sell it?

Some people are really weird and eternally unsatisfied. I, for one, am very happy with this update. I'm very existed at the idea of using Reason in StudioOne.

Those are mostly people who do music production as a hobby, and/or are on extremely limited budgets. For everyone else (read: professionals, those with looser budgets), I'm willing to wager they see the value or aren't that miffed.

perhaps 'mostly' is accurate, but I can speak for my part, and I'm neither a hobbyist, nor do I have a limited budget. I just prefer Reason as a DAW, and that's not the focus of this version--I think that's a fair place to land up, considering it is a DAW.

I don't want to have to learn an entirely new DAW just to get the most out of the new version.

that said, I'm no doomsayer either. I find the direction concerning, but I certainly don't think it means Reason Studios (geez, that's weird to type ) is abandoning the DAW, or that somehow it means the downfall of the company (those predictions have always struck me as incredibly weird).

[NekujaK]

Nice idea, but I didn't realize using the Reason rack in another DAW was high on anyone's priority list. But if that's how they're going to play it, it definitely doesn't seem worthy of the "Reason 11" label. Just "Reason Rack VST" would've been fine. Save the "Reason 11" label for an update that actually puts meaningful improvements into Reason itself.

Oh well...

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