Announcing Reason 11

[Vyckeil]

I really don't get people when they say that they'll sell Reason to buy another DAW. The whole point of this update is to use Reason in another DAW. Why are they selling Reason then? Just buy the other DAW, update Reason and use it inside the DAW you prefer.

Reason just became one of the most powerful plugins on the market, if not the most powerful. Why the hell would you sell it?

Some people are really weird and eternally unsatisfied. I, for one, am very happy with this update. I'm very existed at the idea of using Reason in StudioOne.

[ShelLuser]

Suite having to pay full price is a middle finger to those including myself having paid several 100's for 4 or more instruments in the bundle, it's disrespectful to loyal customers.

Agreed. I don't feel the same about your other arguments but this seems very strange in these modern times. They can easily check what stuff you own so it should be easy to apply a discount based on the devices you already got.

otoh: If you own most devices anyway then why bother with Suite in the first place? In that case my strategy would be to stick with standard and wait until they added MORE to their collection; somewhere in Reason 12 or 13. This is the strategy I'm going to follow, also considering that I bought quite a lot of stuff last weekend, including an upgrade to Reason 10. Heck, I think I own pretty much all the devices you get with Suite, so... I'm not going to bother with that.

[guitfnky]

Reason just became one of the most powerful plugins on the market, if not the most powerful.

this perfectly sums up why this version rubs a lot of us the wrong way.

Reason is a DAW first. it’s a plugin second. this upgrade telegraphs that they’re more interested in expanding its use as a plugin than they are in building out a mature, full-featured DAW. that’s very concerning to many of us.

[avasopht]

so i can use the Reason Rack vst inside the Reason Rack vst inside the Reason Rack vst
can't wait to try.

No, because Reason rack is VST3 and Reason only supports VST2!

Instead of adding VST3 support to Reason they've added, erm, Reason support to VST3.

So I can't run Reason Rack as a VST inside of Reason

[jlgrimes]

Seems pretty cool.

I was wanting a paintbrush style tool and note muting and curves and the ability to maximize tracks vertically. Looks like we got all of those.


This might be one of the upgrades that more caters to my needs.


The VST plugin is also a good idea, it helps open up Reason and the RE technology. There are some cool plugins not available as VSTs, Expanse, Grain, Buffer, RV7000, Scream, Malstrom comes to mind. Now Props need a free Player version, just to get more users into the RE market. Throw in a free instrument or two and the RE market could take off.

Now you can work in Ableton and not cringe when you want to use an instance of Blamsoft Expanse due to the hassle of Rewire.

Still I would have wanted Freeze but that said Reason does perform alot better now.

The GUI, and Freeze is something they will need to deal with at some point.


Have some questions though.

1. Can tracks now be fully maximized to take advantage of your whole screen (or reasonably close to it to handle other GUI)?

2. As a VST plugin, can I still record audio tracks in Reason to use stuff like comping, slice edit, and pitch edit?

3. Is drag and drop of midi clips supported between DAWS? What about samples?

4. I'm assuming Reason is available as a VSTi. Is it also available as a VST, to be used as an effect processor?

5. Are their any midi channel limitations with VST. I remember Sonar used to have a limit of 16 channels with rewire a small amount.

[Ad0]

I wonder how I am going to use this in another DAW.

Use several instances of Reason VST in different tracks instead of one huge VST with tons of stuff to automate. I suspect automating 20+ instruments etc in the VST instance would be a nightmare.

Also, cool to use one Reason instance on the master bus and for sends etc. I hope the VST / reason engine itself is lightweight for each instance and doesn't introduce latency by just being there.

[Creativemind]

Devices

• Sweeper Modulation Effect, an advanced phaser/flanger/filter with extensive modulation options for both classic and crazy modulation.
  
• Quartet Chorus Ensemble
  
• Master Bus Compressor
  
• Channel Dynamics
  
• Channel EQ

Workflow and technical improvements

• Curved automation
• Crossfades
• Improved zoom
• Mute MIDI notes
• New Pencil Tool mode (multi-note Pencil)
• Absolute Snap
• Key visualization
• Octave shortcut
• Draw automation...on the existing automation line
• Bug fixes (to be detailed)

this is all you get if you’re not using v11 inside another DAW. I don’t expect you to respond, but I hope you can at least appreciate how many of us feel this is an underwhelming amount of content/improvements for those of us who like using Reason as a DAW.

Yes. I would expect double that for £100 be honest. I'm not sure (probably come in handy) if I'll use the Reason as a VST in another daw. The top list, not sure apart from Sweeper and Quartet Chorus whether the main mixer elements will ever get used by me especially considering how much scope we have for plug-ins with Re's, native devices and VST.

So the bottom list is the most important one for me. 9 features (you missed off seeing which midi controller key you're pressing or have I got that wrong?) some of which are tiny implementations. I mean Studio One just had an upgrade with 70 features in it.

I think the midi editor should have been listed as one features of the update and loads of really vital midi editing features added:- midi chase, remember last note length, joining notes, colouring notes, note displays, toggle on/off button for the trigger notes while editing, type in chords, notes automatically shorten when you shorten a clip and slice by grid (also unselect all as part of the midi editor and the whole daw) weren't also added to that list.

EDIT - and oh REMOVE THOSE ARROWS OFF THE NOTES IN THE MIDI EDITOR as they get in the way. Should only appear when you get a certain pixel length towards the beginning or end of notes when they're needed to either extend or shorten a note.

[dezma]

I really don't get people when they say that they'll sell Reason to buy another DAW. The whole point of this update is to use Reason in another DAW. Why are they selling Reason then? Just buy the other DAW, update Reason and use it inside the DAW you prefer.

Reason just became one of the most powerful plugins on the market, if not the most powerful. Why the hell would you sell it?

Some people are really weird and eternally unsatisfied. I, for one, am very happy with this update. I'm very existed at the idea of using Reason in StudioOne.

A lot of people using reason as their main DAW are not happy with the much wanted sequencer update. Unhappy does not equal selling.

[guitfnky]

I wonder how I am going to use this in another DAW.

that’s what I’m wondering now too...on top of learning the other DAW’s workflow, how do the sequence-based Rack devices work alongside(inside) the host DAW? seems like it could be clunky.

[Creativemind]

Also, so long Propellerhead - hello Reason Studios.

I will never get used to the rebranding. The old Reason logo was so cool. Propellerhead was a great name. Literally overnight the product has gone from "Propellerhead's Reason" to "Reason Studios Reason". It's doesn't quite flow off the tongue as well.

Propellerhead Reason and the new name is Reason Studio, that's it. To me I think they're copying Image-Line here?

[boingy]

I wonder how I am going to use this in another DAW.

that’s what I’m wondering now too...on top of learning the other DAW’s workflow, how do the sequence-based Rack devices work alongside(inside) the host DAW? seems like it could be clunky.

I guess in the same way that many VST synths have built-in arpeggiators.

Assuming that the CPU load of a bare Reason rack is small then I'll have several small Reason racks in the Studio One rather than one large rack. You just treat each rack as a single instrument.

[guitfnky]

which key you're pressing or have I got that wrong?

that’s the Key visualization bullet. yeah, those things are all fairly simple to add, I’d think, including a ton of others (auto punch, markers, track folders, yadda, yadda...). I said it before and I’ll say it again, they could’ve *easily* hit a home run, but instead, they decided to bunt.

[Luxuria]

I'm not sure what to say here....

A quote from Mattias from the Speculations about the new guy thread: " I don't believe music production is a completely one-platform, in-the-box activity though. I think people use plenty of tools in plenty of different ways and we'll continue to make software that fit in to that one way or the other."

This is the new direction Propellerhead aka Reason Studio is heading towards. The new CEO, Niklas, was brought in to rebrand the company and this is the result.

1.Reason Rack Plugin: RRP is a VST3, but the DAW itself doesn't support VST3? Has the company lost interest in being a full fledged DAW? Like I had predicted, Pheads doesn't want to compete in the DAW industry, they never did. So instead, they are slowly transition into a Kontakt but for synths/effects using their RE platform.

2. Reason Suite: "Here are all our Rack Extentions we've built over the years. We've maximized all the profits out of them in our shop so we are going to bundle them all up and sell them as a suite. Oh, and we don't do complete your bundle offers so you're going to have to pay full price $250 even if you have most of the devices."

3. 5 New Devices!: 3 of which were already present in the previous version's mixer. A new chorus and the new phaser which were much needed additions since the only previous stock devices were the half rack devices from Reason 2.5

4. 6 Workflow features: WOW! I guess 6 technically is 1 more than a "handful" so I have to eat my words /sarcasm. And the community sings their song "Just wait for the point updates, surely there will be more down the line." Really guys? How many times are they going to pull this before you snap out of it? Phead's is sitting on a mountain of workflow improvements! They would rather let the other DAW's add them for you. Reason sequencer isn't ever getting the revamp it deserves.

How is this even close to a full version upgrade? I can't justify upgrading for $129 and I'm still on V8! The Reason Rack Plugin didn't even get a HD GUI upgrade. And if they didn't fix the issue with high resolutions Mac devices running like crap this is toast.

I'm upset. Why do duel DAW owner's get such a big priority in a FULL version release while we who are 1 DAW users dedicated to Reason have to sit in the backseat?

[Vyckeil]

this perfectly sums up why this version rubs a lot of us the wrong way.

Reason is a DAW first. it’s a plugin second. this upgrade telegraphs that they’re more interested in expanding its use as a plugin than they are in building out a mature, full-featured DAW. that’s very concerning to many of us.

Before version 6, Reason was pretty much a plugin first (via ReWire) and DAW second. Now it's just coming back to its roots. They're still improving the DAW features, albeit slowly. The competition is fierce for DAWs. Props tried their hand at it, improved a lot of the features but it's never enough for some people. I personally love all the other features that Reason provide and don't limit myself, so I bought StudioOne to compensate for Reason's failings. Now that Reason is a VST, it fixes a lot of my problems, and I won't ever feel stuck with all those REs I purchased.

I understand that some people exclusively use Reason, so just don't buy this update. Reason version 1 never stopped people in making music. Whatever version you're on won't stop you making music. Just skip this one. I'll be upgrading from version 9. I didn't find version 10 interesting, so I skipped it.

[guitfnky]

that’s what I’m wondering now too...on top of learning the other DAW’s workflow, how do the sequence-based Rack devices work alongside(inside) the host DAW? seems like it could be clunky.

I guess in the same way that many VST synths have built-in arpeggiators.

Assuming that the CPU load of a bare Reason rack is small then I'll have several small Reason racks in the Studio One rather than one large rack. You just treat each rack as a single instrument.

ah, that makes sense. seems weird to think of multiple instances of the Reason rack, rather than a single monolith.

[Belltunes]

This seems to be the last thought to shut down the company.

It really does not seem like that at all to me. All the Ableton kids will now consider Reason as an alternative to Reaktor or even Komplete.

I think this is a genius move really from a business perspective. Think of all the Rack Extensions that will now get sold. A bigger user base means the RE market will prosper again

Agreed!!!!

[antic604]

So, what's your opinion about that? I don't really see much use for them either in Reason or in Rack VST, because I already have better alternatives for both use cases.

Also, hopefully those are not final designs, because the fonts are all over the place. Also, it would really be much better if Channel EQ was bigger and included the graphical display we have under F2 for the channel.

Seems like a rushed job, really

[diminished]

As Mattias stated, the GUIs are not finished yet.

[guitfnky]

this perfectly sums up why this version rubs a lot of us the wrong way.

Reason is a DAW first. it’s a plugin second. this upgrade telegraphs that they’re more interested in expanding its use as a plugin than they are in building out a mature, full-featured DAW. that’s very concerning to many of us.

Before version 6, Reason was pretty much a plugin first (via ReWire) and DAW second. Now it's just coming back to its roots. They're still improving the DAW features, albeit slowly. The competition is fierce for DAWs. Props tried their hand at it, improved a lot of the features but it's never enough for some people. I personally love all the other features that Reason provide and don't limit myself, so I bought StudioOne to compensate for Reason's failings. Now that Reason is a VST, it fixes a lot of my problems, and I won't ever feel stuck with all those REs I purchased.

I understand that some people exclusively use Reason, so just don't buy this update. Reason version 1 never stopped people in making music. Whatever version you're on won't stop you making music. Just skip this one. I'll be upgrading from version 9. I didn't find version 10 interesting, so I skipped it.

I feel like this update is the best one yet. I mean, you can use a DAW in a DAW. And since Reason is now a VST, you can use a VST in a VST. That's crazy awesome!

yep, I understand that. but it’s undeniable that they’ve been focused on rounding Reason out as a DAW since version 5 (Record+Reason). they’ve tiptoed right up to the line of greatness, and in v11, decided to go another way. that’s what we’re upset about.

and of course, the old adage, ‘if you don’t like it, don’t buy it’ applies (hell, I’ve used it many times myself). I agree the new VST Rack feature is great, but it’s only great for certain people who don’t use/don’t want to use Reason as their core DAW. that’s sort of antithetical to what Props’ approach has been for the past 5 versions.

[plasticfractal]

I don't use other DAWs so I have zero interest in the feature of reason as a vst. Unfortunately that seems to be the flagship feature of v11. I'm baffled as to why this was their main focus for this release. At the very least I was expecting am HD visual upgrade and workflow improvements. I know we are getting a couple sequencer goodies but it does feel like an afterthought. I've been using reason since 1.0 and I'm struggling to justify making this upgrade. I'll probably do it to show my support, but that's what I did with v10 even though I wasn't too pumped about it. I respect the vst support, and the performance improvement was simply amazing, and those were free updates, so huge respect to them for that.

But the reason as a vst is a useless feature to me. Unless they are considering exiting the DAW market altogether, which is a concern that I have now that this is their main big new feature.

I've been loyal since 1.0, but it seems like other DAWs get major workflow features added regularly, on top of having modern high resolution user interfaces. I have a lot of respect for the company formerly known as Propellerheads, but I'm confused about their strategy now. I will upgrade out of respect. and to show gratitidue for their amazing recent free updates. But a high res gui and big workflow improvements would have made me and many other people much more excited.

[guitfnky]

So, what's your opinion about that? I don't really see much use for them either in Reason or in Rack VST, because I already have better alternatives for both use cases.

Also, hopefully those are not final designs, because the fonts are all over the place. Also, it would really be much better if Channel EQ was bigger and included the graphical display we have under F2 for the channel.

Seems like a rushed job, really

I feel like it’s a bone they had to throw core users (we who don’t want to use another DAW). agree that they’re almost totally pointless to use in another DAW. I do think they’ll be useful in Reason though, but then I do a LOT of EQ/compression stacking. I almost never use the channel compression because of that, but I could see myself reaching for the channel comp in the rack.

[Aria Salvatrice]

Like everyone else, I'm disappointed, but that's about what I expected from the Props (I will continue calling them that forever): a long history of making underwhelming mainline releases all about reaching out to new users, and sometimes cool surprises in point releases making it worth upgrading mid-cycle.

I've used Reason as a part of a greater whole in many bizarre scenarios over the years... ReWired in many ways, loopback MIDI and ASIO drivers to have VSTs before VST support, on a separate computer with MIDI and audio cables, getting MIDI from another non-rewired sequencer.... so having Reason as a VST is kinda interesting for me, but Reason will always remain my primary DAW, and those sequencer improvements are.... just a good start, but it needs dozens more to compete with others. Just making the clips aware of your current key and scale would have been an instant buy from me.

[Loque]

So, what's your opinion about that? I don't really see much use for them either in Reason or in Rack VST, because I already have better alternatives for both use cases.

Also, hopefully those are not final designs, because the fonts are all over the place. Also, it would really be much better if Channel EQ was bigger and included the graphical display we have under F2 for the channel.

Seems like a rushed job, really

I do not like the GUIs much (a bit flat, unpolished and a bit big), but i really appreciate that the devices are now available in the rack.

I already had my eyes here and there on SSL Bus Comp VSTs, but really hesitated and now i have it in the rack as i wanted. Great!

And finally there is a Gate FX in the rack, which makes patch creation for developer much better! The Channel comp also sounds very nice and musical.

The EQ is also good to just have a quick SSL musical RQ to throw in and again, for patch making and sharing it is perfect!

I really appreciate the additions.

PS: Anybody seen the back? Maybe we can have some CV goodies, like a note-follow for the LP/FP filters

[steff3]

No UI scaling to be able to use Reason on modern computer screens ergonomically - no update I guess ....

[KGB]

I am thankful, however, that with this update, we are now free to leave the ship while taking all our belongings with us.

Rather, she said "if you want her, you can have her!"
She kicked us out and changed her name.
She wants alimony and shared custody of the Rack.
Is this the end?
I never imagined life without her...