Announcing Reason 11

[electrofux]

I barely post here, but I have to admit I'm thoroughly disappointed with this update. It's as if PH/RS have basically decided to screw looooooong time Reason users (since Reason 1.0 for me) in favor of users of other DAWs with a "Reason Rack" VST. Not to mention if you remove the Hype - dedicated reason only users barely get anything. No free major instrument (we have to pay for the new Scenic synth - which is fine, but still). There's no major overhaul of the Sequencer, something ALL reason users have been begging for for years, and for the few upgrades to the workflow we still have to pay a full on upgrade price for WHAT exactly? The half rack SSL's are cool, but not that critical. Some like Reason and Reason alone and don't need or want a VST version of the rack to use in ANOTHER DAW. I understand the commercial strategy behind this move and I understand the need to grow the "Reason" customer base, but I feel this will just push people away from using Reason as a DAW only. Ok, rant over

Totally agree with you...

I always thought that the primary vision of the company is the Reason as the fully featured unique system for the music production as a whole. I thought they will put effort to develop and improve this unique product to be better and better and more and more sophisticated tool for music production - regular major instrument AND WORKFLOW improvements based on user feedback.

But as we can see with R11 announcement, there will be no major and serious sequencer/workflow revamp . The company shifts towards business direction where only purpose is to make profit as much as possible without passionately putting efforts into developing, improving and bringing new ideas to the Reason desktop as independent music production ecosystem.

Well opening this to the other DAWs means alot more customers and the development effort doesnt seem to involve that much ongoing development after it has been released and stable. So i am ok with that. There are a bunch of people who already use another DAW besides Reason (not me) and they will be happy campers i think.
For the guys hating the Reason sequencer they now got the option to use another DAW with less hazzle. For the purists though (which i am too) this update doesnt hold alot. But there is allways a dissatisfied group of people with each update. I willd efinitly try it with Bitwig or Live to enjoy the Session view but i hold my breath that the remote control side of things doesnt come with too many restrictions.

[Crumbfort]

I'm speechless... this is just... beyond brilliant. Reason rack as VST... I can't believe it's actually happening. Can't describe how happy this makes me as a long time Reason user.

[boingy]

Two predictions. Two years from now:

1. Reason Studios (previously known as Propellerhead Software) will have new owners.

2. Reason VST will be right up there with the big players, the "must have" VSTs for any DAW user. As a bonus, Reason VST will come with a free "standalone mode" just like Kontakt, Reaktor, Sampletank, Amplitube, Guitar Rig and lots of the new breed of "big" synths.

(and folks will still be complaining about it hehe).

[EnochLight]

I bought Cubase 10 Pro during Steinberg's sale for exactly this worst case scenario.
I'll wait for Cubase 10.5, then activate my license, and use ReWire until Reason 12 is on sale.

No shame in skipping upgrades. I'm sure more features will come in 11.x updates and eventually 12 that might bring value to you.

Back in the day, we got similar things in some major releases. 2.0 introduced only 2 new instruments, and zero workflow enhancements, but then 2.5 added 3 more effects and some utilities. I remember 3.0 being largely underwhelming, even though it introduced the Combinator (which has arguably been Reason's most valuable addition over the years), and some new effects. 4.0 was literally just 1 instrument: Thor (and an arp). Again, during these first 4 versions, we saw very little workflow enhancements.

I know it's been years since those days, but I'm just trying to illustrate that 11.0 seems to be in alignment with virtually every Reason release since it began. I'm hoping that the point updates bring more to the table.

[friday]

You've given up on the DAW side of things, haven't you.

Not at all! All workflow features are super highly requested and there are more of them than most full version upgrades we've ever done. Curved automation, crossfades, muting notes, new pen tool, increased vertical and individual zoom, visual feedback when playing in the piano roll and so on. This is definitely a commitment to Reason as a whole. Try 'em out, they're super useful!

I hear you and thanks for the update, especially the automation curves. But their statement also has a reason. It really is not so much on the "Reason only" users’ side (your hardest fanboys). You have so many potentials in reason with sequencer and audio development. Just some fast inputs (again).... update the audio editor so it is possible to edit clips from the sequencer direct. Add Recycle features to the audio editor. More fader curves to the audio editor. Tempo adjustable grid lock in the audio editor to cut samples in time. Add dummy/placeholder channels to the mixer, so we can clean up the mixer. Add grouping in the Sequencer for clean up the sequencer.

My personal input for a more sensitive communication …. We needed much of our resources for the Reason Plugin, therefore we only had time for some very important changes to the Reason Sequencer. But the Reason Plugin is a important move for the whole Reason and RE ecosystem and we are for sure, fully committed to Reason Studio. We will come up with more Reason Studio optimization as soon as possible.

Don't try to make apple like communication, with the attempt to hide some of the weaknesses with in your face marketing. You are not flawless and that’s ok!

[diminished]

just thought it would be useful to show how little core users* are getting with Reason 11...

core users get these new features in Reason 11:

5 new devices (just 2 brand new—the other three are already in Reason, just not as rack devices)

curved automation, cross fading, zoom improvements, MIDI note muting, draw multiple notes, and key highlighting in piano roll

am I missing something?

*I’m defining ‘core users’ as those of us who use Reason as our only DAW, and don’t want to run Reason within another DAW—I’m also not counting anything in Reason Suite, since none of that is new content; it’s merely a new way to bundle/sell existing devices.

Did you delete your thread with this question?

Anyways, this is spot on. And if you own a few Suite plugins already, you're basically double-crossed because not even that upgrade path is of relevance.
And I think you will be able to buy those two or three new REs on their own.
So all that's left in terms of core features is a few measly workflow "improvements" and the option to take your stuff to another DAW.
I can't even say "I can't even...".

Edit: PLEASE, PH/RS, have the decency to add those 6 sequencer improvements to a free 10.5.

[JiggeryPokery]

I think this is a genius move really from a business perspective. Think of all the Rack Extensions that will now get sold. A bigger user base means the RE market will prosper again

If Reason Studios ever suggest that would be the case in the light of their previous harebrained schemes they expected the same thing to happen, it'd be no more than hubris and hope and deflection from other pressing issues they avoid discussing.

Because if marketing third party REs to VST users for growth of the RE market was indeed the idea then surely the VST3 Rack itself would be free and standalone of Reason Studios Reason 11 itself, and the devices—at least other than say, the old non-RE devices and perhaps a few early ones from 2012-2013—wouldn't be included, but paid extras.

Reason Reason Studios Reason 11 Suite Reason will include all their REs, many of which are designed explicitly to compete with better third party REs, thus cutting them from earning revenue, while those products were funded by the third-party developers: remember, the idea of REs back in 2012 as announced was that it would allow Propellerhead to focus on the core program, and third party devs could provide most of the extra content. That's not really what happened. There's no signficant compelling reason for large numbers of other DAW users to even trial better RE devices than Reason Studios Reason 11 or Reason 11 Suite throws at them, and have to install another dongle or software licensing program to handle them all for the priviledge.

What Reason Studios Reason Reason Studios Reason Spam Spam Reason Baked Beans Spam and Reason 11 are doing in that video is quite literally advertising their entire DAW and saying "but even we don't think our DAW sequencer is actually any good compared to everything else*, but at least you can use all the devices we include in the competing DAW you do like!". That's some crazy baffling mixed-message marketing there, where simply saying "we've added a VST3 Rack to replace ReWire!", which does make a fair amount of sense for a number of reason studios reason reason reasons, would have sufficed.

I suppose there will always be enough new people signing up to the SDK for Reason Studios to pretend the RE SDK is popular and new devs are still signing up.

Ixus above makes a great point and is likely correct: this is a release predominately to head off or mitigate Reason users leaving Reason; it gives those guys a compelling and useful method to maintain their existing Rack purchases in other products. Cubase users choosing between Komplete or Reason Suite and extra REs? They'll sell a few, sure, but that's being mightly hopeful unless their definition of "bigger user base" is literally "more than zero".

_____

* harsh, I don't believe that myself, even if there are useful things missing, but this is an advert designed for non-Reason users we're talking about. Even the likes of Nissan can screw this kind of stuff up, famously with their Almera, "the car they don't want you to drive". ("You're never alone with a Strand" is always the example of bad ads, but I don't feel that one applies here, unless it's a reference to the sad, lonely life of an RE developer ).

[Zac]

This is going to make the props (sorry Reason Studios) a lot of money.

For me personally it's the worst thing that could have happened. It feels like I'm now obligated to learn a new DAW such as Ableton.

It feels to me that props have admitted that the architecture of Reason won't allow for improvements as a DAW to compete quickly enough with Ableton etc. So they're now selling Reason as a Virtual Rack rather than worry about the sequencer/mixer/audio editing etc.

I felt smug when Reason allowed vsts. I felt like my choice of learning Reason was justified.

Today, I feel like I either stick with R10 forever or learn a new DAW to take advantage of any future Reason versions.

I really don't want to support two DAWs financially and neither does my aging brain.

So I feel really disillusioned with this update. It feels like the venture capitalists came in and broke it up for parts.

Just my current feelings. Hopefully I'll be able to rationalise some positivity in the future.

[stp2015]

Post over at KVR by one of the Props regarding 4K / scalable GUI:

"Believe me, we're not ignoring it. I can't say anything definite but we're acutely aware."

[Loque]

Post over at KVR by one of the Props regarding 4K / scalable GUI:

"Believe me, we're not ignoring it. I can't say anything definite but we're acutely aware."

Yea, ppl should be opening their eyes. They have probably done a lot of refactoring under the hood, otherwise the Reason Rack or the VST performance update would not be possible Even some simple features in the sequencer like scaling a single track indicates, that they integrate flexibility in their architecture more and more.

And they wrote at https://www.propellerheads.com/blog/whats-name

Our current look dates back nearly twenty years and was getting a little rusty

And look that guided lines all around the new logo when they created it:


I would not be surprised, if there is something around the corner...

[guitfnky]

just thought it would be useful to show how little core users* are getting with Reason 11...

core users get these new features in Reason 11:

5 new devices (just 2 brand new—the other three are already in Reason, just not as rack devices)

curved automation, cross fading, zoom improvements, MIDI note muting, draw multiple notes, and key highlighting in piano roll

am I missing something?

*I’m defining ‘core users’ as those of us who use Reason as our only DAW, and don’t want to run Reason within another DAW—I’m also not counting anything in Reason Suite, since none of that is new content; it’s merely a new way to bundle/sell existing devices.

Did you delete your thread with this question?

Anyways, this is spot on. And if you own a few Suite plugins already, you're basically double-crossed because not even that upgrade path is of relevance.
And I think you will be able to buy those two or three new REs on their own.
So all that's left in terms of core features is a few measly workflow "improvements" and the option to take your stuff to another DAW.
I can't even say "I can't even...".

Edit: PLEASE, PH/RS, have the decency to add those 6 sequencer improvements to a free 10.5.

nope, it looks like a mod merged my post into this thread.

[Heigen5]

Well, Propellerheads are a company, and a company needs making money to run their business and Reason as a VST brings lots of new potential customers on the table. As of for those who won't be using a VST version in the other DAWs - yeah, the value is a lot weaker for us, but this has always been the case - we can't be pleased in the same way every time. At least I'm happy for those who will get a VST version for Reason. And I'm happy for the Props too for making more money because of this.

[diminished]

They should have used those blue guidelines while preparing the new shop for release...

[diminished]

Did you delete your thread with this question?

Anyways, this is spot on. And if you own a few Suite plugins already, you're basically double-crossed because not even that upgrade path is of relevance.
And I think you will be able to buy those two or three new REs on their own.
So all that's left in terms of core features is a few measly workflow "improvements" and the option to take your stuff to another DAW.
I can't even say "I can't even...".

Edit: PLEASE, PH/RS, have the decency to add those 6 sequencer improvements to a free 10.5.

nope, it looks like a mod merged my post into this thread.

Ah good, I wouldn't want it to get this a lot of tracktion either if I was so close to my corporate overlords.
All sarcasm aside, I understand that merging topics is better for visibility but I feel like the let-down crowd deserves their own place, too. I'm relieved to see we're not alone.

[Kalm]

Just here to watch the Reason 11 blow up

*munches on popcorn*

[Danilo Villanova]

Wow, users of other DAWs must be very happy! So nice of PH to care so much about them. As a Reason user myself I'm considering selling my license and get Bitwig

[stp2015]

Ixus above makes a great point and is likely correct: this is a release predominately to head off or mitigate Reason users leaving Reason; it gives those guys a compelling and useful method to maintain their existing Rack purchases in other products. Cubase users choosing between Komplete or Reason Suite and extra REs? They'll sell a few, sure, but that's being mightly hopeful unless their definition of "bigger user base" is literally "more than zero".

I surely hope you are wrong...Your REs and those of many other developers are great. I think they can stand their own vs. the Propellerhead devices.

If I was an Ableton User, I would get Reason 11 + Synth Rack on sale for 600. I would get ABL3, Antidote, Expanse, ReSpire, Parsec, Super Audio Cart + Umpf + a whole lot of other stuff. Later on Mix and Mastering Rig for another 200 maybe. That is a lot of money for things many kids are ripping / pirating. But I don't think you need anything else to make fantastic music - unlimited possibilities.

I may be biased, though.

[scratchnsnifff]

So there's no reduction for devices you already own, so let's say you want the Scenic Hybrid Instrument device and you have all the others (quite possible), is it available to buy separately?

Disappointing for me, I already own every other plugin (other than the new Scenic Hybrid Instrument) in the suite.
Based on other Prop's REs, it is likely that Scenic Hybrid Instrument will be selling for $99
Reason Suite ends up not being a great deal for me. So much for loyal customer support.

I was kind of hoping. If you own X amount of the bundled package, you could then get the new synth for some kind of discount


I mainly don’t want to have to pay for all of what I currently own lol I basically have all but two of the devices

[PitW.]

Wow, users of other DAWs must be very happy! So nice of PH to care so much about them. As a Reason user myself I'm considering selling my license and get Bitwig

...and then buy Reason again to have the instruments? Or does bitwig come with a fully blown instrument rack these days?

[dusan.cani]

It feels to me that props have admitted that the architecture of Reason won't allow for improvements as a DAW to compete quickly enough with Ableton etc. So they're now selling Reason as a Virtual Rack rather than worry about the sequencer/mixer/audio editing etc.

I really don't want to support two DAWs financially and neither does my aging brain.

So I feel really disillusioned with this update. It feels like the venture capitalists came in and broke it up for parts.

Feeling the same way...

[chimp_spanner]

I just wanna take a moment to acknowledge how the Reason hive mind was able to accurately predict the 11 announcement to within about a week haha. Well done

I'm always hyped about anything new for Reason, although this is majorly unexpected for sure! So I'm in two...or maybe three or four minds about it haha. It's awesome that Reason can now get into that "industry standard" space. I talk to a lot of pro and semi pro producers on account of my work, and for as much as they dig the results I get from Reason there's no way they'd ever be prepared to part ways with Logic or Ableton or Cubase. I mean God knows I've tried but I totally get it. So for producers and sound designers to have something as flexible and expandable as the rack is really great. It's somewhere between Reaktor, Modular, Kontakt, VCV...just crazy.

Of course on the flipside, I don't use Reason *just* for its rack. I use it for its global undo, static automation values, self contained audio files/portability, plugin management, ability to add/remove effects without audio glitching, etc. Those things are all hugely important to me so I'm not sure I'd move over to a half Reason/Cubase setup even to get at other features I really need like folders, note chase, multi-timbral VSTs. All of which I still really hope we get in 11.x.

Totally down with the improvements they have made though. Didn't realise how much I needed curves until I started dabbling in Cubase again, so that's a very welcome addition. As is octave nudging in the key editor. Crossing my fingers hard that they also implemented note preview when nudging with the keyboard. Won't know until I get on the beta/buy the software.

So yeah overall, it's good news. Any big change they make is always gonna cause some degree of upset, but I don't think there's any reason to think the sky is falling and it's all over for us core users just because the rack VST is now an *option*. I mean we had all the same doom-n-gloom when VST came out; "this is the end for racks and CV!". Can't necessarily speak as to the health of the third party market - but from a user's perspective there's still tonnes of choice, and all the flexibility we've come to know and love.

Anyway super duper excited to try it out. I'm still holding out for folders and multi-channel MIDI - still really, really....really need those things but otherwise congrats guys. Look forward to taking it for a spin!!

[Ahornberg]

3 technical questions about the Reason Rack plugin:

1) Is it possible to have VSTs inside of the Reason Rack plugin?
Actually when using Reason in Rewire mode it is not possible to run VSTs inside the rack.

2) Is it possible to route audio and/or MIDI from the host DAW to CV inside the plugin?
Is it possible to route CV from the plugin to audio and/or MIDI in the host DAW?

3) Can the audio buffer size inside the Reason Rack plugin be set to a smaller value than
the audio buffer size of the DAW? e.g. DAW runs on 2048 samples and the plugin on 64 samples

[Heater]

Just checking. So still no track freeze?

[sdst]

so i can use the Reason Rack vst inside the Reason Rack vst inside the Reason Rack vst
can't wait to try.

[diminished]

so i can use the Reason Rack vst inside the Reason Rack vst inside the Reason Rack vst
can't wait to try.

No. First of all, because Reason doesn't support VST3, while itself will be a VST3 plugin.