Climate Change [Solved!]

This forum is for anything not Reason related, if you just want to talk about other stuff. Please keep it friendly!
User avatar
bxbrkrz
Posts: 1599
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 06 May 2019

Zac wrote:
06 May 2019
bxbrkrz wrote:
05 May 2019

Eugenics has never been a joking matter to me. It is not SciFi.
Your personal feelings you have, or your super power ability of smelling me across a computer screen is totally irrelevant.
If you are too young to know past events then it is never too late to learn what we, the human race did to each other, especially to the poorest among us. The same excuses were used: too many children, a burden to society and Nature, etc.

Have a good read. Or not.

UNWANTED STERILIZATION AND EUGENICS PROGRAMS IN THE UNITED STATES

Coerced sterilization is a shameful part of America’s history, and one doesn’t have to go too far back to find examples of it. Used as a means of controlling “undesirable” populations – immigrants, people of color, poor people, unmarried mothers, the disabled, the mentally ill – federally-funded sterilization programs took place in 32 states throughout the 20th century. Driven by prejudiced notions of science and social control, these programs informed policies on immigration and segregation.

As historian William Deverell explains in a piece discussing the “Asexualization Acts” that led to the sterilization of more than 20,000 California men and women,“If you are sterilizing someone, you are saying, if not to them directly, ‘Your possible progeny are inassimilable, and we choose not to deal with that.’”

According to Andrea Estrada at UC Santa Barbara, forced sterilization was particularly rampant in California (the state’s eugenics program even inspired the Nazis):

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/blog ... ed-states/
I haven't read everything in full here. I don't need that. My head's full of enough crap already. But I've read enough to decide you are in this for your own entertainment.
Music and art. It is about entertainment. Always for our own selfish gratification. Always. Can you point to a case when it is not true? Your statement will always be true. I can't help you with what is already inside your head though :geek:

User avatar
EnochLight
Posts: 6224
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: your mom

Post 06 May 2019

bxbrkrz wrote:
05 May 2019
At least you did not do a bad copy pasting job in the thread.
Speaking of getting triggered... :lol: :lol: :lol: :puf_wink:
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

User avatar
bxbrkrz
Posts: 1599
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 06 May 2019

EnochLight wrote:
06 May 2019
bxbrkrz wrote:
05 May 2019
At least you did not do a bad copy pasting job in the thread.
Speaking of getting triggered... :lol: :lol: :lol: :puf_wink:
:puf_bigsmile: :puf_bigsmile: "Relax." :puf_wink:




Right now humanity is at its best and happiest it has ever been, thanks to Capitalism. The lowest level of poverty. Ever. More people are happier everyday eating oatmeal, shipped from across the world, than ever before.
Oatmeal tastes better thanks to patented technologies from Bill Gates' Monsanto and its massive investment in S.T.E.M.
Capitalism is the answer to Climate Change. Not enforced population control from the tiny housing bourgeoisie :thumbs_up:

User avatar
Creativemind
Posts: 3415
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

Post 22 Aug 2019

mashers wrote:
04 May 2019
I think we can do even better than that. Beef has just been grown in a lab which is so convincing that the correspondent who visited couldn't tell the difference between a burger made from meat grown in a lab and a beef burger made from cow flesh. I think that if we have the ability to grow meat in a lab then it is immoral not to.
That's great. I also saw a woman on British tele a couple of months ago eat a chicken nugget grown in a lab and she said it was delicious and couldn't tell the difference.

The thing I worry about though is would we find out in 20 years it was bad for our health in someway as we'd been eating something essentially syntheric or am I wrong?

And if they can do this (regardless of what I just said) it'd be a major step forward if McDonald's lead the way and started selling lab grown chicken McNuggets. Start off with a few branches then expand to others and eventually the world and then onto lan grown beef patties for the other burgers if they taste as good.
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 11.3 / Cockus Reaper 6.10 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Pro Tools First / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

User avatar
Creativemind
Posts: 3415
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

Post 22 Aug 2019

Creativemind wrote:
26 Apr 2019


What he says at 14m27 though, about using ethanol to run your car, in the UK, does anyone know where you buy it and how much it costs in comparison with petrol?
Can anybody shed any light here and would like to know if cars can be fitted with this converter, why every car isn't fitted with one when they're manufactured?
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 11.3 / Cockus Reaper 6.10 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Pro Tools First / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

User avatar
EnochLight
Posts: 6224
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: your mom

Post 22 Aug 2019

Creativemind wrote:
22 Aug 2019
Creativemind wrote:
26 Apr 2019


What he says at 14m27 though, about using ethanol to run your car, in the UK, does anyone know where you buy it and how much it costs in comparison with petrol?
Can anybody shed any light here and would like to know if cars can be fitted with this converter, why every car isn't fitted with one when they're manufactured?
No clue, but here's some fun facts: Brazil is the world's largest producer of ethanol (from sugar cane), and the majority of new cars sold in Brazil can use ethanol, but the mix Brazil uses is only 25% ethanol to 75% regular gasoline. In the US, ethanol is mostly made from our vast fields of corn, but even then we max out at about 10-15% ethanol to 85-90% gasoline.

The thing is, even though hypothetically converting a car to use 100% ethanol, I'm not a fan of "carbon sequestration" using this method. IMHO, the fact of the matter is that shit is still being burned, and burning 100% ethanol still emits carbon that needs to be re-absorbed in someway. I get how the process works, but I truly doubt its efficiency.

I'm all for either 100% battery powered vehicles (charged by renewable sources) or hydrogen fuel cells (with hydrogen made via renewable sources).
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

User avatar
Creativemind
Posts: 3415
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

Post 22 Aug 2019

EnochLight wrote:
22 Aug 2019
I'm all for either 100% battery powered vehicles (charged by renewable sources) or hydrogen fuel cells (with hydrogen made via renewable sources).
Yes when they keep talking about electric cars, I think back to when I lived in New Zealand 15 years ago and people used to talk about the hydrogen powered car (they used to claim a New Zealander invented it but not sure.) I wondered what happened to that. That's gotta be the most environmentally friendly way of powering a car surely? sounds like it so I keep thinking, "why they talking about electric cars when you can have hydrogen powered?".

Also, some plant news here I've just seen on the net that's in relation to our planet warming (a plant is now growing outside in the U.K that hasn't grown outside in 60m years):-

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/gl ... li=BBoPWjQ
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 11.3 / Cockus Reaper 6.10 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Pro Tools First / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

reggie1979
Posts: 1181
Joined: 11 Apr 2019

Post 22 Aug 2019

I said it before, I'll say it again. Maybe someday someone will understand.

You can't go from 2.5 billion people to 7.5 billion people in a few decades and not expect circumstances. You can't run airplanes on fuel cells. People in many countries are just living on pollution pits. So though I'm all for the efforts people are making it's not going to be enough.

People are poppin' out puppies at record rates. To build all those house takes a far larger degree of resources than you probably think. Add in all the concrete and blacktop and steel with all the pollution and the fact that by simply being alive you are putting out co2, we're doomed.

But hey, don't be so glum, in the next few decades we'll be raping some other planet or moon for resources.

I just think a lot of these climate experts are chasing their tails.

User avatar
EnochLight
Posts: 6224
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: your mom

Post 22 Aug 2019

reggie1979 wrote:
22 Aug 2019
I said it before, I'll say it again. Maybe someday someone will understand.

You can't go from 2.5 billion people to 7.5 billion people in a few decades and not expect circumstances. You can't run airplanes on fuel cells. People in many countries are just living on pollution pits. So though I'm all for the efforts people are making it's not going to be enough.

People are poppin' out puppies at record rates. To build all those house takes a far larger degree of resources than you probably think. Add in all the concrete and blacktop and steel with all the pollution and the fact that by simply being alive you are putting out co2, we're doomed.

But hey, don't be so glum, in the next few decades we'll be raping some other planet or moon for resources.

I just think a lot of these climate experts are chasing their tails.
I understand your opinion, I just don't agree with all of it. Yes - the world's population explosion most certainly has had consequences (and will continue to do so), and yes - planes will never (likely) run on fuel cells, but automobiles are (not arguably - they are) the greatest contributor to carbon pollution in the atmosphere, followed by actual power generation from coal, fossil fuel (such as natural gas), and industrial/commercial waste.

Switching all of those over to renewable most certainly will have a positive effect on the environment, and reduce the amount of greenhouse gases being poured into the atmosphere. This is all good. This should happen. This needs to happen.

And climate experts are only chasing their tails because of two things: 1. government negligence, and 2. the private sector resisting doing the right thing. Overcome those two obstacles, and things become a lot easier.
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

reggie1979
Posts: 1181
Joined: 11 Apr 2019

Post 22 Aug 2019

I does what I can. Not a very wasteful person.

If emissions is your (whomever) bag, then someone outta put some time into traffic lights and F.....ED up they are. I drive very little, but when I do, I spend most of my time waiting at signal lights .... waiting and waiting while the green side has no traffic and the cars just sit and get 0 miles to the gallon. This isn't a really busy place, we don't have really bad traffic or too many cars. But we have horrid traffic lights. I'm guessing it's not the only place on earth in that predicament.

I live with my folks so there is nothing to be done here at the house. They are RED NECK and don't believe in all them thar climate nonsense :thumbs_down:

User avatar
EnochLight
Posts: 6224
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: your mom

Post 22 Aug 2019

Most cars sold in the US currently have a feature that shuts the engine off if you're stopped at a light. It's annoying, but it works. I also buy all of my electricity 100% renewable (we have wind and solar farms in Michigan).
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

User avatar
boingy
Posts: 791
Joined: 01 Feb 2019

Post 22 Aug 2019

EnochLight wrote:
22 Aug 2019

... but automobiles are (not arguably - they are) the greatest contributor to carbon pollution in the atmosphere...
That's not true. Power generation/heating is still the biggest contributor. Insulating your house and using less power is the best thing you can do. Of course, it still won't be enough. :|

reggie1979
Posts: 1181
Joined: 11 Apr 2019

Post 22 Aug 2019

Interesting. I've got a few minds when it comes to "electric" vs. combustion.

A) for all the emission savings, that power has to come from something.
B) that battery isn't going to last forever, where will it go to die?
C) They still use the same shit. Rubber wheels (oil) and metals that require mining.
D) True electrics require re-charging stations. Here, they are available in some ways, but in small town BFE, they are not.

Nobody with any reasonable thoughts would say that "electric" is bad, but it's NOT the end all for what ails us.

reggie1979
Posts: 1181
Joined: 11 Apr 2019

Post 22 Aug 2019

And again, what about airplanes? They cannot and won't be electric. They pollute our sky as much as anything, why are people thinking "cars" are the problem????????????????

User avatar
demt
Posts: 1082
Joined: 16 Sep 2016

Post 23 Aug 2019

its all come true round hear 1 kid eatch etc etc etc etc lecky cars veg diets weve won apart from volcanoes etc etc etc beach huts etc etc even the sun spots have misteriously vanished leaving a comparitevly tame sun instead of the wild won of the past carnt even have a world war for the ritch to fix it plenty of little police actions (install our right wing dictatership etc) no chance of all pulling together plenty of class kaos
currently akai touch mpc. reasonsuite11, android kaosilater .behringer ddm4000 dj mixer
hear scince reason 2.5

mashers
Posts: 435
Joined: 05 Nov 2018

Post 23 Aug 2019

Creativemind wrote:
22 Aug 2019
The thing I worry about though is would we find out in 20 years it was bad for our health in someway as we'd been eating something essentially syntheric or am I wrong?
You're not wrong, but I don't think it's as likely now as it was say when people started smoking tobacco and though it was ok because it's natural. We have the ability to deconstruct substances and examine its precise chemical structure, and we have a pretty good idea how most known chemicals affect biological organisms. These lab-grown meats are basically just normal animal tissue grown artificially, and I think if they contained anything harmful then we would know. Of course it's possible there is something we cannot (yet) detect which is harmful, but personally I think it is a risk worth taking.
Creativemind wrote:
22 Aug 2019
And if they can do this (regardless of what I just said) it'd be a major step forward if McDonald's lead the way and started selling lab grown chicken McNuggets. Start off with a few branches then expand to others and eventually the world and then onto lan grown beef patties for the other burgers if they taste as good.
It would be difficult to get buy-in from big corporations like McDonald's who are all about the bottom line. They won't want to risk putting off customers or decreasing their profit margin (lab-grown meat is bound to be more expensive than meat farmed from live animals, at least in the short-term until demand increases). But this is what legislation is for. Looking at what is happening to the Amazon rainforest, it is clear that farming for billions of humans is detrimental to the planet and needs to be stopped.
reggie1979 wrote:
22 Aug 2019
You can't go from 2.5 billion people to 7.5 billion people in a few decades and not expect circumstances.
Indeed. Climate change is a natural process inasmuch as it is the planet's reaction to overpopulation by one species. Ecosystems are self-limiting when it comes to overpredation, and I sense we are reaching the upper limit of the size of human population on this planet unless we drastically change the way we consume.
reggie1979 wrote:
22 Aug 2019
You can't run airplanes on fuel cells. People in many countries are just living on pollution pits. So though I'm all for the efforts people are making it's not going to be enough.
I fear you're right. I don't think there is much we can do at this point, at least while most human civilisation is being run by corporations. I believe it is possible for us to live within the provisions of the planet, but we won't.
reggie1979 wrote:
22 Aug 2019
But hey, don't be so glum, in the next few decades we'll be raping some other planet or moon for resources.
The only hope really is the almost certain knowledge that there is intelligent life on other planets. So even after we've made this one uninhabitable, at least there will be life somewhere.
EnochLight wrote:
22 Aug 2019
Most cars sold in the US currently have a feature that shuts the engine off if you're stopped at a light. It's annoying, but it works. I also buy all of my electricity 100% renewable (we have wind and solar farms in Michigan).
I'm not an expert in this area and haven't read the research, but have hear a few times that this is actually worse as it uses more fuel to restart the engine than it does to leave it idling. It depends how long you have to wait of course, but I don't think it's simple. Making combustion engines illegal would seem sensible but I don't know how realistic it is, and I also don't know how damaging the process of manufacture/disposal of electric vehicles is compared to the manufacture and use of combustion vehicles. It's complicated.
reggie1979 wrote:
22 Aug 2019
And again, what about airplanes? They cannot and won't be electric. They pollute our sky as much as anything, why are people thinking "cars" are the problem????????????????
I'm quite hardline on things like this, and I realise that is not going to make me popular, but I don't care. Some things are more important than people liking you. That said, my view of this is that leisure flights should be banned. We have tens of millions of people jetting around the world every year and most of them are completely unnecessary. Travelling for fun is selfish, and travel for business is unnecessary. Personally I believe that use of air vvehicles should be restricted to emergencies only. I don't fly, and never will again unless I'm in an air ambulance.

User avatar
Creativemind
Posts: 3415
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

Post 23 Aug 2019

mashers wrote:
23 Aug 2019
I'm quite hardline on things like this, and I realise that is not going to make me popular, but I don't care. Some things are more important than people liking you. That said, my view of this is that leisure flights should be banned. We have tens of millions of people jetting around the world every year and most of them are completely unnecessary. Travelling for fun is selfish, and travel for business is unnecessary. Personally I believe that use of air vvehicles should be restricted to emergencies only. I don't fly, and never will again unless I'm in an air ambulance.
That's quite hardcore thinking but to be honest, we need drastic changes. We need to take all this seriously.

I'm currently worried about what I've seen on news about the Amazon forest fires.
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 11.3 / Cockus Reaper 6.10 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Pro Tools First / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

mashers
Posts: 435
Joined: 05 Nov 2018

Post 23 Aug 2019

Creativemind wrote:
23 Aug 2019
That's quite hardcore thinking but to be honest, we need drastic changes. We need to take all this seriously.

I'm currently worried about what I've seen on news about the Amazon forest fires.
Well I think we need to be at least as hardcore in our protection of the planet as we have been in its destruction. Deliberately burning down something which not only provide a habitat for countless non-human species but also provide oxygen to the rest of the planet is about as hardcore as it gets in terms of wantonly working to make our planet uninhabitable by life as we know it. I don't think any legislation, concession or penalty is too lenient at this point in time.

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 2126
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 23 Aug 2019

someone mentioned that “capitalism is the answer to climate change”, and I’d just like to point out that if that were true, it would’ve been solved 30 years ago.

User avatar
diminished
Posts: 1685
Joined: 15 Dec 2018

Post 23 Aug 2019

While I agree that drastic changes can't arrive soon enough, I don't think preventing a family from flying to a holiday in a different country overseas that they've saved money for over the span of several years is going to help the world become a better place or have an impact on CO2 emissions compared to other measures.
Massivly taxing the people who do travel by plane on a regular basis however I'd much appreciate. Especially for flights that can also be replaced by up to 6 hours of public transportation, buses and trains.
Ban coal plants already and push for electric / hydrogen cars, renewable energy and energy&resource saving technology.
Save the world's rain forests at all cost.
Fucking educate the people around the globe about the trash they produce and the effects it has on their health and environment.
:reason: Most recent track: resentment (synthwave) || Others: on my YouTube channel •ᴗ•

User avatar
diminished
Posts: 1685
Joined: 15 Dec 2018

Post 23 Aug 2019

guitfnky wrote:
23 Aug 2019
someone mentioned that “capitalism is the answer to climate change”, and I’d just like to point out that if that were true, it would’ve been solved 30 years ago.
LOL I won't search for it but that's by far the most stupid sentence I've read in regards to climate change.

Hi, my name is diminished and I, too, suffer from severe communist thinking from time to time.

All capitalism will solve is the survival of the wealthiest people in this world. Capitalism allows a few self-chosen people living large in (sustainable ;)) bunkers below the surface while the rest of the population dies and suffers, and it will allow for armed henchman that protect the status quo by giving them a little piece of the pie.

But to be fair any political scenario will end badly unless there's enough EDUCATION worldwide. But guess what's very expensive and won't give any short-term returns on the investment.

“A society grows great when old men [and women] plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit” - too much to ask for the majority of our species.
:reason: Most recent track: resentment (synthwave) || Others: on my YouTube channel •ᴗ•

User avatar
diminished
Posts: 1685
Joined: 15 Dec 2018

Post 23 Aug 2019

Oh and I remember someone brought up eugenics. Again, I won't search for it. But if that was serious suggestion, please start with yourself. Utterly disgusting.
:reason: Most recent track: resentment (synthwave) || Others: on my YouTube channel •ᴗ•

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 2126
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 23 Aug 2019

yes, yes, aaaaaaaand yes

User avatar
EnochLight
Posts: 6224
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: your mom

Post 23 Aug 2019

boingy wrote:
22 Aug 2019
That's not true. Power generation/heating is still the biggest contributor. Insulating your house and using less power is the best thing you can do. Of course, it still won't be enough. :|
IMHO, that's the second best thing you can do. The best thing you can do is to buy 100% renewable if your utility provider offers it. I'm fortunate that my provider does (though it's only a recent program that began within the past few years). And the crappy part is we've had a boatload of wind and solar options for decades here - it just took BS government and utility providers that much time to allow everyone to shop it as an option.

But yeah, you're right about power plants.

As of this year, there's over 1 billion passenger vehicles on the road worldwide, and up to 2 billion are expected by 2035. The average car emits about six tons of carbon dioxide every year, so by 2035 - assuming a transition to electric/hydrogen powered doesn't occur, that means roughly 12 billion tons of carbon dioxide pushed into the atmosphere that wouldn't have been there 125 years ago. We're pushing roughly 6 billion tons of carbon dioxide as of this year by those metrics. It's a terrifying thought (we're currently at 400 parts per million of CO2 for the first time in human history). :o :shock: :( :?

Power plants (coal fired, natural gas, etc) are pushing over 1.7 billion tons in the US alone as of 2018. I didn't poke around to find the numbers for China, India, and Russa, but I would guess it's pretty damn big. Factor in Africa and the rest of the world, and power generation certainly takes the crown.

Still, cars represent a massive part of the equation. I'm really hoping in the next 20-30 years we see 100% of passenger vehicles transition to renewables in some capacity.
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

User avatar
EnochLight
Posts: 6224
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: your mom

Post 23 Aug 2019

guitfnky wrote:
23 Aug 2019
someone mentioned that “capitalism is the answer to climate change”, and I’d just like to point out that if that were true, it would’ve been solved 30 years ago.
I'm a huge fan of capitalism, but capitalism literally CREATED climate change. If it weren't for Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Fisk, and Gould's battle for market supremacy, we never would have gotten into this mess. Well, that and human's unquestionable desire for cars, lights at night, and staying warm in the winter. :D :lol:

That said, if transitioning to renewables isn't profitable, it will never happen. Full stop. So perhaps capitalism can save the world, yet? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Last edited by EnochLight on 23 Aug 2019, edited 1 time in total.
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests