Wimpy guitar tone

[Deanricks]

Hello fellow Reasonites!

So i'm just a freak whom uses Reason Intro 10 to sketchpad songs for my band. All I need is a drum machine (ReDrum), and three audio tracks. *Maybe* some synth and sampler stuff, so it's perfect. But here's the thing i'm experiencing:

I'm only playing power chords on the guitar. And no matter what I do, the sound is...well, wimpy. I've tried all sorts of rack extensions and combinations of existing rack modules, but the best I can seem to do is a blues overdrive/Stevie Ray Vaghan kinda sound, and i'm aiming for Deicide or something. (For those who don't know that band: think a really heavy, beefy distortion.) Y'know...a real metal/punk sound.

Weirder still is that no matter what I seem to do, I can't get the tone to change. I try the heaviest distortion combo I can think of as well as routing different ways, and *still* just get that mild overdrive sound.

What i'm *thinking* of doing is just buying a cheapo distortion pedal and put it between the guitar and the audio interface input. I know that would work, but before I do that, I thought i'd ask here.

Has anyone else experienced this, or am I just too much of a n00b to know what i'm doing? Anyway, any advice would be appreciated.


--Dean

[SymphonicDischord]

I think we need a little bit more info on your signal chain. What interface are you using, what REs, VSTs are you running it thorough, etc. I think once you give us more info we can help you dial up the “brvtal metals.”

[Deanricks]

As far as VSTs, i'm not using any. I'm just using the SoftTube Guitar Amp simulator in conjunction with the Foldback Distortion with the distortion cranked as high as it can go. Sometimes I try that in combination with the Pulverizer Grit Guitar setting, but that ends up too muddy. My audio interface is a simple two input/one output Behringer U-Phoria UM2. I'm using the Mic/Line 1 channel for the guitar. Beyond that, i'm just using a simple audio channel for the input. Forgive me, but I don't know what an RE is in this context.

If this matter at all: it's being played on an Ibanez RG with customized pickups.

--Dean

[Steedus]

Part of your issue is you should be using the "Inst 2" input on that interface. That will give you the best input for a guitar and should drive the Softube Amp better.

Personally I would stay away from the foldback distortion unit on a guitar, especially in conjunction with the Softube Amp. It's more for tweaking synth signals as far I I know.

[Steedus]

Also in regards to not hearing any changes, be sure that you don't still have the tuner activated on the sequencer page. That automatically (from memory) bypasses any insert effects you have on the audio track.

[WillyOD]

Use any of the guitar plugins (or VST) that Reason has (the distortion part). Then add guitar cabin IR into that (the sound comes alive...) and you should be golden with an okay guitar tone.

Check out Dimi of Kuassa on the forums (or his blog at https://dimitones.wordpress.com) for some cool guitar tones that he has provided (some do require investing in many Kuassa REs to get out the full sound, but even with some REs missing you still see his fx process chain). On the IR side: Google is your friend and will get you thousands of IRs from all the guitar/bass amps in the world.

Then double track your rhythm guitar tracks.

Also make sure your audio interface has a good mic preamp.

If you want to do the distortion with an outside unit you could just get a cheap pedal, yes... but I would highly recommend you try out some amp emulation with IR, because you might be pleasently suprised!

[motuscott]

If REs are an option, it sounds like you should try Kuassa's Creme.

[MrFigg]

If REs are an option, it sounds like you should try Kuassa's Creme.

Was going to say exactly that this morning but wasn’t sure if they worked in Intro.

[guitfnky]

you might be able to get an okay metal tone out of the Softube Amp RE, but it might be difficult to get a great one. the Softube sims are pretty finicky, and tend to require a lot of trial and error to get good tones (it is doable though).

for your purposes, you might be better off grabbing a dedicated third party amp sim. there are a ton out there, but the Kuassa Creme RE I think is built specifically for higher gain metal tones. I can also vouch for Bias FX VST. super versatile, and will give you some great tones for any genre.

one last thing I’ll mention is that in most cases, cranking your distortion to the maximum setting will do the opposite of what you’re trying to achieve. the more distortion you add, the more it tends to flatten out the signal, which can lead to a lifeless, anemic sound. find an appropriate distortion for metal, and put it in front of an appropriate high gain amp, and start out with moderate settings, and you should have something pretty close to usable. and check out presets—you can learn what sorts of settings work in a particular genre just by opening up some presets and seeing how others doing similar music set up their tones. for example, the Bias VST has a vast, always-expanding library of presets (many of which are created by successful artists like Tosin Abasi and Ola Englund).

[SymphonicDischord]

Your definitely gonna want to change things up and use the instrument input as opposed to the line input. A proper Hi Z input is generally pretty crucial to getting a good starting basis for your guitar tone. I also don’t think your gonna be able to get into that high gain sound easily with the Softube REs(Rack Extension). I would be looking at a VST route.

http://www.wiredguitarist.com/2016/12/3 ... r-plugins/

Here’s an article for some free VSTs to try. The LePou stuff is supposed to be fantastic and that paired with the TSE808 and Cab IR loader should get you there.

[KarmaFunkarma]

IMO, the two most important things since you said you're mostly (totally?) just playing power chords...

1. Run the sound through a good Impulse Response of a real cabinet/mic. A high quality cab/mic IR will change your basic sound more than anything. There are 10's of thousands of them out there.

2. Triple or quadruple track whatever you're playing. Actually play the track multiple times (don't just duplicate a track). Then pan/mix them into one sound to get a bigger, thicker tone.

Karma

[chimp_spanner]

Foldback distortion isn't really what you wanna be going for here as it will really mangle the sound of the guitar, and not in a good way!

I'd recommend using Scream and then just using the distortion or overdrive models and tweaking to taste (low-to-mid gain, tone/presence at 60-70%) and then running that into an amp sim RE with as big a cab setting as you can get. The Softube amps aren't my favourite tbh, but there's one high gain setting and one cab there that will work well with the Scream first in the chain.

As others have said, if you're in the market for REs from the shop then I highly recommend Kuassa. Creme is great for high gain stuff, and it even comes with a little tone booster/overdrive section before the pre-amp. The cab section on it is really versatile too.

Orrrr if you're able to use VST then try out the LePou plugins. There's an Uberschall model, a Mesa, an ENGL, a Marshall and I think one or two others. That plus any impulse response loaded into RV7000 will sound great!

[boingy]

First, as others have said, sort out your input. it *MUST* go into an "inst" input rather than line or MIC.

Second, if you are fine with VSTs pickup the latest copy of Computer Music mag - it includes a free special edition of a Kuassa guitar amp sim.That will give you a mush better range of sounds to start and then you can start brutalising it some more with Reason's effects if you need to

[hurricane]

I think your problem is that you're trying RE's and combinators.

PRS and Impulse Responses all the way, man...

[hurricane]

and:

[gullum]

I would define DEICIDE - Defying the Sacred guitars as wimpy sounding if played alone the secret is to have multiple guitars playing the same parts even back in the early days dead by dawn they had a wimpy sound in metal or death metal if the guitar sounds good on its own it will sound terrible in the mix.

this is 100% reason

[Spaceship]

I love my Fender Mustang amp. It has a headphone output to connect directly to the computer without a microphone. It models numerous amplifiers and has built in effects. Put a distortion pedal before it and you’ve got a great tone with no VSTs needed.

[MrFigg]

Tech 21. SansAmp GT2
http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/gt2/

[Deanricks]

THANK YOU ALL!!!! I followed your suggestions, and *now* the guitar sounds decent! You dudes ROCK!!

--Dean

[reggie1979]

But er, what did you do?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Boombastix]

I just put a Camel Crusher after the Softube amp, just what it needed. Happy accident, but hey, worked for the stuff I was doing then.

[Deanricks]

First of all, I used to instrument line on the UM2 like you all told me I should, and then dloaded Kussara Creme. Worked like a charm!

[reggie1979]

First of all, I used to instrument line on the UM2 like you all told me I should, and then dloaded Kussara Creme. Worked like a charm!

That's a good one.

[napynap]

As with most modeller hardware units that simulate the sound of guitar rigs, build your circuit the same way as you would with pedals and amps, only virtually. So if you plug your guitar into a distortion pedal first, and then into your amp, build that same thing in reason. I've been playing live for years direct to PA through a Line6 POD HD that I programmed with that concept. It sounds great!