Synthesizing with europa

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sleep1979
Posts: 961
Joined: 20 Jul 2017

Post 08 Mar 2019

So im starting to create my own patches but i havent a clue what im doing apart from filter cut off and a d s r , what i need is some basic understanding of how to make keys or basses or pads and synths i primarily like keys and pads and atmosphere , i know i can reverse engineer patches , but id like a few turorials also where to find them ?

Baylo
Posts: 33
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 08 Mar 2019

I recommend taking a read of this thread which started with an inquiry similar to yours, but asked about Complex-1 rather than Europa: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7510903

To cut to the chase, if you're new to synthesis, you might want to start with a simpler synth like Subtractor, and/or use a tutorial program like Syntorial. YouTube of course has a million tutorials on the basics. You say you understand filter cutoff and ADSR principles but little else - I would suggest that you now need to familiarize yourself with the basic sound of different waveforms (saw, square/pulse, triangle, sine, etc) and the impact of different types of modulation (as well as the impact of filters and envelopes on the sound). Then add in the impact of effects.

Once you have a grasp of the components of a sound, it will make using a very complex synth like Europa much easier.

Mark

sleep1979
Posts: 961
Joined: 20 Jul 2017

Post 08 Mar 2019

Baylo wrote:
08 Mar 2019
I recommend taking a read of this thread which started with an inquiry similar to yours, but asked about Complex-1 rather than Europa: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7510903

To cut to the chase, if you're new to synthesis, you might want to start with a simpler synth like Subtractor, and/or use a tutorial program like Syntorial. YouTube of course has a million tutorials on the basics. You say you understand filter cutoff and ADSR principles but little else - I would suggest that you now need to familiarize yourself with the basic sound of different waveforms (saw, square/pulse, triangle, sine, etc) and the impact of different types of modulation (as well as the impact of filters and envelopes on the sound). Then add in the impact of effects.

Once you have a grasp of the components of a sound, it will make using a very complex synth like Europa much easier.

Mark
do you think using pinknoise maia is ok to start learning ? i know its samples based but it has waveforms etc and looks simple to me

Baylo
Posts: 33
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 08 Mar 2019

It might be - I don't have any experience of using it. But looking at the screenshots in the shop it still looks like it is more complex than Subtractor, given that it has a mod matrix, effects and step sequencer. More to the point, why spend another $50 when Subtractor (and Malstrom and Thor) are already in the rack and can teach you the basics?

If you're a beginner trying to learn, I really urge you to use the resources already available in Reason before you spend money on something that looks more shiny. Spend that money when you understand what's going on, otherwise you're really spending money on more presets and not learning anything. Which, to be clear, is fine if that's really what you want. Plenty of people make good music using presets and tweaking. But it won't make learning any easier, just more expensive.

Try this video to get started:

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Oquasec
Posts: 2368
Joined: 05 Mar 2017

Post 08 Mar 2019

You should learn 2 types of synthesis with subtractor & 6 types of synthesis with thor.
Producer/Sound Designer.
Currently checking out peff & hydlide's archives

sleep1979
Posts: 961
Joined: 20 Jul 2017

Post 08 Mar 2019

Baylo wrote:
08 Mar 2019
It might be - I don't have any experience of using it. But looking at the screenshots in the shop it still looks like it is more complex than Subtractor, given that it has a mod matrix, effects and step sequencer. More to the point, why spend another $50 when Subtractor (and Malstrom and Thor) are already in the rack and can teach you the basics?

If you're a beginner trying to learn, I really urge you to use the resources already available in Reason before you spend money on something that looks more shiny. Spend that money when you understand what's going on, otherwise you're really spending money on more presets and not learning anything. Which, to be clear, is fine if that's really what you want. Plenty of people make good music using presets and tweaking. But it won't make learning any easier, just more expensive.

Try this video to get started:
Thanks thor looks way too complicated for me

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Loque
Posts: 5651
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 08 Mar 2019

sleep1979 wrote:
08 Mar 2019
Baylo wrote:
08 Mar 2019
It might be - I don't have any experience of using it. But looking at the screenshots in the shop it still looks like it is more complex than Subtractor, given that it has a mod matrix, effects and step sequencer. More to the point, why spend another $50 when Subtractor (and Malstrom and Thor) are already in the rack and can teach you the basics?

If you're a beginner trying to learn, I really urge you to use the resources already available in Reason before you spend money on something that looks more shiny. Spend that money when you understand what's going on, otherwise you're really spending money on more presets and not learning anything. Which, to be clear, is fine if that's really what you want. Plenty of people make good music using presets and tweaking. But it won't make learning any easier, just more expensive.

Try this video to get started:
Thanks thor looks way too complicated for me
Europa is way easier to understand than Thor...imo...
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

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Oquasec
Posts: 2368
Joined: 05 Mar 2017

Post 08 Mar 2019

Thor's layout is very simple once you spend a few days tinkering.
I'd recommend learning all 3 of the Reason 5 synths first.
One day for subtractor. One day for thor. one for maelstrom.
---
The route that makes Reason extremely deep is the route of dealing with more than a dozen plugins.
Sure, there are more tools at your disposal these days...but now you have more to do.
Producer/Sound Designer.
Currently checking out peff & hydlide's archives

Baylo
Posts: 33
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 08 Mar 2019

Somehow we seem to be focusing on the small part of my post that was in parentheses LOL! :-)

I should clarify - I didn't mean to imply that Thor was simpler than Europa (though the fact that it doesn't hide anything that's actively creating sound while Europa does might count for something...). I did mean to imply that it was free, and Maia isn't.

The real point, though, is: why not start with Subtractor?

sleep1979
Posts: 961
Joined: 20 Jul 2017

Post 08 Mar 2019

Baylo wrote:
08 Mar 2019
Somehow we seem to be focusing on the small part of my post that was in parentheses LOL! :-)

I should clarify - I didn't mean to imply that Thor was simpler than Europa (though the fact that it doesn't hide anything that's actively creating sound while Europa does might count for something...). I did mean to imply that it was free, and Maia isn't.

The real point, though, is: why not start with Subtractor?
Im feeling what your saying and i may sped a whole day sunday looking at the videos u showed me , and going back over subtactor i kinda ignored it thinking it cant give me the sound i want and its not a great synth , but maybe your right use my presets from the other synths but start learnibg with that , but the problem i have is all synths look different to me so if i learn subtractor , aint i still gonna have a problem when i come up against a modulation matrix ? Good advice though mate u make sense

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QVprod
Posts: 2267
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 08 Mar 2019

sleep1979 wrote:
08 Mar 2019
Baylo wrote:
08 Mar 2019
Somehow we seem to be focusing on the small part of my post that was in parentheses LOL! :-)

I should clarify - I didn't mean to imply that Thor was simpler than Europa (though the fact that it doesn't hide anything that's actively creating sound while Europa does might count for something...). I did mean to imply that it was free, and Maia isn't.

The real point, though, is: why not start with Subtractor?
Im feeling what your saying and i may sped a whole day sunday looking at the videos u showed me , and going back over subtactor i kinda ignored it thinking it cant give me the sound i want and its not a great synth , but maybe your right use my presets from the other synths but start learnibg with that , but the problem i have is all synths look different to me so if i learn subtractor , aint i still gonna have a problem when i come up against a modulation matrix ? Good advice though mate u make sense
The idea is to understand how synthesis works. While synths may look different, most of them basically work the same way. SubTractor is a good starting point because of it's simplicity. It won't take you long to learn it. Afterwards once you realize what oscillators, filters, and LFOs do, you can apply that knowledge to Europa or any other synth. Modulation matrixes aren't complicated by the way. It's just source and destination at it's core. If you can use an LFO (SubTracktor has 2) you can use a mod matrix.

Baylo
Posts: 33
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 09 Mar 2019

QVprod said it better than I did. Thanks!

I spent an embarrassingly long amount of time struggling to understand synthesis, and spent too much money buying shiny objects with cool demos but always got frustrated that I couldn’t ever get exactly the sound I wanted. Then I read something that broke it all down to oscillators, envelopes, filters and modulation, and all of a sudden 90% of synths made sense (I’ll leave FM out for now...)

It’s a bit like driving a car - once you can recognize the common patterns and conventions it doesn’t matter what you learnt on, you can drive any of them. And better appreciate their differences.

Good luck!

Mark


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Carly(Poohbear)
Posts: 2300
Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Location: UK

Post 09 Mar 2019

sleep1979 wrote:
08 Mar 2019
So im starting to create my own patches but i havent a clue what im doing apart from filter cut off and a d s r , what i need is some basic understanding of how to make keys or basses or pads and synths i primarily like keys and pads and atmosphere , i know i can reverse engineer patches , but id like a few turorials also where to find them ?
I think this is the best tutorial on the web, Syntorial, it teaches you about synths but more importantly by listening and reproducing.

The first 22 lession (or there abouts) are free.

https://www.syntorial.com/

PoohBear

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Oquasec
Posts: 2368
Joined: 05 Mar 2017

Post 09 Mar 2019

Syntorial.
Experience.
Books.
Favorite choices were experience & books.
Subtractor is such a good little thing It will not leave my toolset.
Producer/Sound Designer.
Currently checking out peff & hydlide's archives

RandomSkratch
Posts: 415
Joined: 10 May 2016

Post 12 Mar 2019

+10 for Syntorial. It's pretty damn awesome for those who need to get going. It starts off easy and ramps up.

Second - There's a book called How to make a Noise which is quite decent. It's also free which is perfect.

https://noisesculpture.com/how-to-make- ... ogramming/

Third - although Subtractor LOOKS simple it's quite the deep synth. Once you get into all the waveforms and blending (? - + o) options you can make quite the range of sounds. PWM from saw waves? Who knew!?

Finally the Reason Manual is a treasure trove of awesome information. I highly recommend reading it or at least the bits and pieces that are relevant to your knowledge quest.

sleep1979
Posts: 961
Joined: 20 Jul 2017

Post 14 Mar 2019

Tbh i read an article about thor and watched a video and copied some settings from a patch in predator re that i liked got close enough so cancelled predator re , wont bother so much with subtractor and europa now as thor aint as hard to begin with as i thought im getting into it already surprising when u try isnt it , also i like the sound of thor better than europa , europa has that harder gritter sound

sleep1979
Posts: 961
Joined: 20 Jul 2017

Post 14 Mar 2019

Thanks people

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Loque
Posts: 5651
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 14 Mar 2019

sleep1979 wrote:
14 Mar 2019
...europa has that harder gritter sound
Uhh...just thought the opposite...Well, at least in the high frequency end.
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

sleep1979
Posts: 961
Joined: 20 Jul 2017

Post 14 Mar 2019

Loque wrote:
14 Mar 2019
sleep1979 wrote:
14 Mar 2019
...europa has that harder gritter sound
Uhh...just thought the opposite...Well, at least in the high frequency end.
Grainy maybe

RandomSkratch
Posts: 415
Joined: 10 May 2016

Post 14 Mar 2019

sleep1979 wrote:wont bother so much with subtractor and europa now as thor aint as hard to begin with as i thought im getting into it already surprising when u try isnt it
If you understand the signal flow of one you pretty much understand other synths. There's just slight variations in the path but the essentials remain. Oscillators, envelopes, filters, etc. (I'm referring to subtractive synthesis here). What changes is the behaviour of said components. Eg the envelopes on Thor are different than on Subtractor. The oscillators also sound different and there are different waveforms. Same with filters.



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sleep1979
Posts: 961
Joined: 20 Jul 2017

Post 14 Mar 2019

RandomSkratch wrote:
14 Mar 2019
sleep1979 wrote:wont bother so much with subtractor and europa now as thor aint as hard to begin with as i thought im getting into it already surprising when u try isnt it
If you understand the signal flow of one you pretty much understand other synths. There's just slight variations in the path but the essentials remain. Oscillators, envelopes, filters, etc. (I'm referring to subtractive synthesis here). What changes is the behaviour of said components. Eg the envelopes on Thor are different than on Subtractor. The oscillators also sound different and there are different waveforms. Same with filters.



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i like thor though next few weeks im sticking with that

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selig
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Post 14 Mar 2019

Best thing you can do is pick one a start now! Sometimes I see folks spend so much time worrying about where to start, I worry they may get discouraged and never really dig in. That said, Subtractor and Thor would both be a fine place to start - just start!

In the “analog” days, you’d get one synth (if you could afford it) and dive deep with that instrument similar to how a guitarist gets a guitar and bonds with it. I couldn’t afford one so I sat at music stores every Saturday when I was in school with headphones and learned the MiniMoog, Arp Odyssey, and Octave Cat (basically in that order).

These days the value of any one instrument may be lessened because it’s so easy to collect literally hundreds of synths in the virtual world.

Even if you pick a synth to learn that doesn’t pan out for you, you can always drop it and pick another! You may eventually want to learn the basics of all Reason synths, so any time put into learning one synth will still pay off IMO.


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RandomSkratch
Posts: 415
Joined: 10 May 2016

Post 14 Mar 2019

Just don't go near any FM synths unless you like crawling into holes and rocking in the fetal position [emoji23]


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