Reason Slow Performance - when is optimisation coming?

This forum is for discussing Propellerhead's music software. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
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bolandross
Posts: 16
Joined: 20 Oct 2017

Post 09 Feb 2019

Data_Shrine wrote:
09 Feb 2019
I recently wanted to start a project - ep or lp, made only in Reason, but I quickly realized it's not possible. I can't do much before the software becomes unusable. It's like all it can handle fine by itself is recording audio. Forget about RE's & VST's. So it's back to rewire for me.
Sorry, but I don't understand why you were having problems with Rack Extensions. Just avoiding VST effects did the trick for me. What extensions were you using in your bigger projects?

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KirkMarkarian
Posts: 292
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Location: Tucson, AZ

Post 09 Feb 2019

Still waiting, myself. Opening projects I have made in earlier versions of Reason, running Mojave. I don't use VSTs and this is just sapping my CPU like never before. Can't wait for the update!

RandyEspoda
Posts: 270
Joined: 14 Mar 2017

Post 09 Feb 2019

ethernine99 wrote:
07 Feb 2019
RandyEspoda wrote:
06 Feb 2019
I've been having weird issues as well, never had any up until now with the latest build.

Basically I'm getting 'out of memory' errors while there's still like 8-10 GIGS of ram free...
Reason also hanging while bouncing in place or while 'saving and optimizing' and stuff like that.

Also repeatedly when I mute midi bars, they still play until I unmute then mute them again.

Seriously, performance wise, Reason really is going downhill, not up...never had any of such issues till this last release dropped.

same here i have a bunch of ram free and its still going crazy..
The weird thing is that it usually acts weird with projects that are 'only' audio.
After I bounce all channels to audio and import them into a new project,
Reason starts flipping, hanging, crashing, out of ram messages,...
Ok it involves some 50-60 channels but still, the same amount of channels work fine in midi,
but once working with 60 audio channels, it just can't handle it ?

Is it because it caches all that audio all at once, or what is going on here ?
Audio is supposed to be 'less' straining on cpu and ram compared to midi.
In any case, I suspect poor audio performance in general, can't think of anything else.

DSP never even reaches above two bars.

This has nothing to do with the coming update, which to me is scary because it will not be fixed.
Really considering alternative options if this trend continues...not able to work with audio is a no go, plain and simple.

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buddard
Posts: 671
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 09 Feb 2019

KirkMarkarian wrote:
09 Feb 2019
Still waiting, myself. Opening projects I have made in earlier versions of Reason, running Mojave. I don't use VSTs and this is just sapping my CPU like never before. Can't wait for the update!
Sadly, judging from earlier comments by PH staff, the primary purpose of the next update is to address VST performance issues. So it's not very likely that your issues will be fixed. But not completely impossible, of course!

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Maxsu
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Location: Vienna

Post 11 Feb 2019

buddard wrote:
09 Feb 2019
KirkMarkarian wrote:
09 Feb 2019
Still waiting, myself. Opening projects I have made in earlier versions of Reason, running Mojave. I don't use VSTs and this is just sapping my CPU like never before. Can't wait for the update!
Sadly, judging from earlier comments by PH staff, the primary purpose of the next update is to address VST performance issues. So it's not very likely that your issues will be fixed. But not completely impossible, of course!
:o I try to improve my workflow and dsp impact with bouncing as much stuff that I can after creating and processing!I had worked to much only with midi tracks but to amek certain sounds you have to bounce the hell out of it.

will give feedback if I have problems with audio tracks - my opinion, maybe your graphics card is the problem - the Audio tracks get visualized in reason and if you have mcuh of it you should close the tracks to minize it.

cheers ;)
:essentials: Bring it to life :essentials:

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KirkMarkarian
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Location: Tucson, AZ

Post 11 Feb 2019

Maxsu wrote:
11 Feb 2019

:o I try to improve my workflow and dsp impact with bouncing as much stuff that I can after creating and processing!I had worked to much only with midi tracks but to amek certain sounds you have to bounce the hell out of it.

will give feedback if I have problems with audio tracks - my opinion, maybe your graphics card is the problem - the Audio tracks get visualized in reason and if you have mcuh of it you should close the tracks to minize it.

cheers ;)
@Maxsu - I wish I could render the audio and be satisfied; I may have to change the way I work (again) to do so. Been using Reason since 2001, and I've always read about that technique. My style of music does change timbre quite a bit, on a generative level, which is why I haven't been too satisfied with that type of workaround.

What really has bothered me about all of this is that I use a very limited amount of instruments, like 5 - 6 tracks (maybe 8 if I'm lucky), due to the style of music I generally make. No singers, no guitar, no audio tracks, just synthesis. Lots of wacky CV, lots of movement. Modular, abstract, or lots of subtle movement.

Before the last update to Reason, and right before Mojave, this was not an issue. I would be at 3 bars, peaking into 4. Enough to let me know that the CPU's gonna start having to work. I generally like to work with the Master section full of REs, so I even stopped doing that and changed the way that I use the Master section (less REs) and have processed the tracks even more via the channel strips before running it through the Master section. Not a huge help, but very similar audio results and a little bit of CPU was freed.

After the latest Mojave update, though, Reason has become more sluggish than usual. I am right on the verge of updating my computer in the next month. In the meantime, I'll just have to be patient. I've really milked my 2012 Mac Mini for the past 6+ years, and it's probably just time for me to upgrade. It may be the graphics card, but it's probably just that the computer's old in general.

I'm simply bummed that when I have ideas I'd like to push forward, I'm running into this processing roadblock that wasn't there before. The answer is that I probably need a new computer. :D

kinkujin
Posts: 120
Joined: 01 Mar 2018

Post 11 Feb 2019

Sorry to ask what may be an obvious question, but...
Is the Mac OS potentially an issue here? Have folk moved to an earlier and stable OS to diagnose this issue(s)?

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KirkMarkarian
Posts: 292
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Location: Tucson, AZ

Post 11 Feb 2019

kinkujin wrote:
11 Feb 2019
Sorry to ask what may be an obvious question, but...
Is the Mac OS potentially an issue here? Have folk moved to an earlier and stable OS to diagnose this issue(s)?
It might be. Something about the OpenGL and Metal graphics something or other - not a coding guy, so it's a bit above my head. Nope, not gonna go back, the rest of my computer and it's software run great :D

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jappe
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Post 11 Feb 2019

CookieClimber wrote:
07 Feb 2019
It's sad, seing that Reason always has been very friendly to the CPU. And funny enough this may be why they waited so long to jump on the VST train. At last the pressure got too high and they included VST, only to find this.

ALTHOUGH

It feels like reason is eating power in other ways as well nowadays, cause even when I delete VSTs, my projects seem to lag more than before.
The whole system OS/Reason/audio interface is a moving target so very difficult to identify what causes which problem.
The only thing I can say with certainty is that I find myself struggling with "Computer too slow" very often these past two years, which I didn't do before.

It would be extremely helpful if Propellerheads could utilize some AI & automation to implement a performance advisor.

I need to understand the culprits in a problematic project.
And I'm pretty sure that's a task that a performance advisor can do much better and quicker than me.

For a start, REs could be profiled before submitting them to the shop, and Reason made aware of their performance rating.

FloozProd
Posts: 1
Joined: 19 Dec 2018

Post 16 Feb 2019

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
14 Jan 2019
floozproduction wrote:
01 Jan 2019
Hy guys, i had the same problem on my macbook pro 2018 16 gigabytes; i went to preferences system, display, colour and change in "sRGB IEC6119662.1". Now reason run faster than before even with vst. Bye
I switched from Color LCD to sRGB IEC6119662.1 and noticed no difference in performance using the Activity Monitor.

Reason runs smoother if it uses the GPU, that's all.

Well, for me and my colleague ( just above in the topic :) ) it worked perfectly. And there is a huge difference when you change the display, all is faster and my cpu isn’t crazy anymore ;).

neilprivate
Posts: 7
Joined: 16 Feb 2019

Post 16 Feb 2019

Just a quick post.
I’m using a PC laptop. I have never used a VST. I have an external sound card. With just a handful of native instruments I get the Computer Too Slow. Been using Reason since V4, never had a single issue. Totally smooth, totally awesome. Now I simply cannot use it. This is beyond a problem with VST or MAC. This is beyond a simple issue for a handful of people. What’s happening here is millions of dollars have been spent on a product that simply doesn’t work. It doesn’t work. All the stress testing and spec comparisons in the world aren’t helping anyone. I could go out tomorrow and spend 5k and see zero improvement, as many have done. We all have serious finances invested in this software. I don’t give a damn about VSTs, start with making the software work with a handful of native instruments. Strikes me adding VST capability is what sank this ship in the first place. Bounce, freeze, copy, paste, economize... aren’t solutions, they’re tedious work arounds. I didn’t pay for tedious work arounds. I have a huge studio in a box, as it was initially pitched, and the whole thing is useless, defunct, dead. I want answers or a refund for every damn penny I spent on supporting this endeavour. Frankly the “trying hard” updates from the developer are no consolation when I can’t even write an 8 bar loop with a very limited rack.

KGB
Posts: 31
Joined: 22 Nov 2016

Post 17 Feb 2019

As others have stated, I've been having issues since the Mojave update as well, mainly with my 32-bit bridge. But Reason is still usable.. Im at a good place right now and can wait a little longer for a new update. I will be more excited for 10.5 or 11 to see what new features will come about.

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friday
Posts: 218
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 17 Feb 2019

Can you please post a Video about this issue? I am also, so much waiting for a update. I usaly come to reasontalk every day with the hope to see news on this! But "can not use it" seems to be a other problem? I also work with PC, but my problems start after about... 15 RE & 15 VST in one Project... Anything before works very vell and I still have to say, sadly I can't live without the reason workflow... 😂
neilprivate wrote:
16 Feb 2019
Just a quick post.
I’m using a PC laptop. I have never used a VST. I have an external sound card. With just a handful of native instruments I get the Computer Too Slow. Been using Reason since V4, never had a single issue. Totally smooth, totally awesome. Now I simply cannot use it. This is beyond a problem with VST or MAC. This is beyond a simple issue for a handful of people. What’s happening here is millions of dollars have been spent on a product that simply doesn’t work. It doesn’t work. All the stress testing and spec comparisons in the world aren’t helping anyone. I could go out tomorrow and spend 5k and see zero improvement, as many have done. We all have serious finances invested in this software. I don’t give a damn about VSTs, start with making the software work with a handful of native instruments. Strikes me adding VST capability is what sank this ship in the first place. Bounce, freeze, copy, paste, economize... aren’t solutions, they’re tedious work arounds. I didn’t pay for tedious work arounds. I have a huge studio in a box, as it was initially pitched, and the whole thing is useless, defunct, dead. I want answers or a refund for every damn penny I spent on supporting this endeavour. Frankly the “trying hard” updates from the developer are no consolation when I can’t even write an 8 bar loop with a very limited rack.

nerris
Posts: 1
Joined: 19 Feb 2019

Post 19 Feb 2019

This is also working for me. From unusable to perfectly fine on iMac 27" 2017. Thank you Marco Raaphorst and FloozProd
FloozProd wrote:
16 Feb 2019
Marco Raaphorst wrote:
14 Jan 2019


I switched from Color LCD to sRGB IEC6119662.1 and noticed no difference in performance using the Activity Monitor.

Reason runs smoother if it uses the GPU, that's all.

Well, for me and my colleague ( just above in the topic :) ) it worked perfectly. And there is a huge difference when you change the display, all is faster and my cpu isn’t crazy anymore ;).

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jappe
Posts: 2212
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 19 Feb 2019

nerris wrote:
19 Feb 2019
This is also working for me. From unusable to perfectly fine on iMac 27" 2017. Thank you Marco Raaphorst and FloozProd
FloozProd wrote:
16 Feb 2019



Well, for me and my colleague ( just above in the topic :) ) it worked perfectly. And there is a huge difference when you change the display, all is faster and my cpu isn’t crazy anymore ;).
Has anyone seen Propellerheads comment on this workaround?

psonicspot
Posts: 6
Joined: 13 May 2015

Post 19 Feb 2019

You know, it would be nice and respectful if the devs (there are some on this forum) would update us every couple of weeks on how the performance update is coming along. I've been a user since the beginning and have found myself drifting farther away from using Reason and using Reaper more and more because of the ridiculously high CPU usage with VST plugins.

neilprivate
Posts: 7
Joined: 16 Feb 2019

Post 19 Feb 2019

Seems like the whole thing is focused on VST support. I’m sure they have their reasons, but I never even used a VST and I can’t even run 2 Europas without issues. Very frustrating. It basically means I can’t work until it’s fixed. Professional software means being used by people who depend on it for income, so it’s not just a small frustration, and it doesn’t matter how new and hot the machine is, seemingly there’s no common problem other than computer too slow! Sound cards, memory, cpu, cores, monitors... we’re all clutching at straws. I can make drum patterns, so it’s not a silent studio, but it’s utterly killed my productivity. But, moaning won’t fix it, I certainly hope this upcoming update isn’t just for VSTs, they’ve focused too long on that when it should really just be gravy. Make the core system work first!

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avasopht
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Post 19 Feb 2019

neilprivate wrote:
19 Feb 2019
Seems like the whole thing is focused on VST support. I’m sure they have their reasons, but I never even used a VST and I can’t even run 2 Europas without issues. Very frustrating. It basically means I can’t work until it’s fixed. Professional software means being used by people who depend on it for income, so it’s not just a small frustration, and it doesn’t matter how new and hot the machine is, seemingly there’s no common problem other than computer too slow! Sound cards, memory, cpu, cores, monitors... we’re all clutching at straws. I can make drum patterns, so it’s not a silent studio, but it’s utterly killed my productivity. But, moaning won’t fix it, I certainly hope this upcoming update isn’t just for VSTs, they’ve focused too long on that when it should really just be gravy. Make the core system work first!
If you can't run 2 Europas then you might want to check your AV or something. Europa is a low CPU device. No more than Maelstrom.
---

neilprivate
Posts: 7
Joined: 16 Feb 2019

Post 19 Feb 2019

I was running about 5 native instruments, including a Rex and 3 effects, through mastering. I added a second Europa and immediately got the dreaded slow message. I tried other instruments and basically found that I was at capacity and most other instruments his the DSP limit. Interestingly, I have a CPU monitor and that never once goes over 50% when this happens. My Win 10 system is optimized to the hilt and nothing has changed since V9. So... when you say look at AV issues... and not wanting to hog the thread... I’m curious as to what specific suggestions you may have.

neilprivate
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Joined: 16 Feb 2019

Post 19 Feb 2019

That’s my most recent effort, basically when there’s around 10 boxes in the rack, no VSTs, the DSP lights up and halts the playback.

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selig
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Post 21 Feb 2019

neilprivate wrote:Seems like the whole thing is focused on VST support. I’m sure they have their reasons, but I never even used a VST and I can’t even run 2 Europas without issues. Very frustrating. It basically means I can’t work until it’s fixed. Professional software means being used by people who depend on it for income, so it’s not just a small frustration, and it doesn’t matter how new and hot the machine is, seemingly there’s no common problem other than computer too slow! Sound cards, memory, cpu, cores, monitors... we’re all clutching at straws. I can make drum patterns, so it’s not a silent studio, but it’s utterly killed my productivity. But, moaning won’t fix it, I certainly hope this upcoming update isn’t just for VSTs, they’ve focused too long on that when it should really just be gravy. Make the core system work first!

I would think you have something seriously wrong with your system if you cannot get two Europas running. I can add two Europe’s with no DSP bars and the buffer set as low as 64-128 samples. Even playing big chords on both with the “Friendly Keys” default patch only gets one DSP bar at most.

Even with 11 Europa’s each playing 11 note chords I can get two bars at a more reasonable 512 buffer. FWIW, I’m using a Zoom LiveTrack L-20 as my audio interface.


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Selig Audio, LLC

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selig
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Post 21 Feb 2019

neilprivate wrote:That’s my most recent effort, basically when there’s around 10 boxes in the rack, no VSTs, the DSP lights up and halts the playback.
If Reason is halting playback is it because you have a CPU Usage Limit set in prefs? If you set it to “none”, does it do the same?


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Selig Audio, LLC

neilprivate
Posts: 7
Joined: 16 Feb 2019

Post 21 Feb 2019

I’ve turned the usage limit off, tried diff %. Like everyone else, I’ve already read every forum post at least once and tried everything everyone else tried or suggested. My Win 10 is extremely lean and optimized. Loathed to buy a new system and find myself in the same hole, as others have reported.

neilprivate
Posts: 7
Joined: 16 Feb 2019

Post 21 Feb 2019

Selig.

I’m open to suggestions. Do you really think the external sound card can make a difference? I’m using a simple Behringer UM 2 with an updated driver. Yes I’ve tried other drivers, ASIO4ALL and just the internal sound card. Still red DSP once there’s a few things in the rack. No VST and no more than 10 boxes of love in the rack before slow message. Anyway, I’m not wanting to hog the thread, just thought I’d add my voice and give my experience in the hope that it helps. I’m hoping 10.3 is worth the wait.

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jappe
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Post 21 Feb 2019

Try to see if there is any specific RE causing your performance problem.
I opened a 1-DSP bar project in R8.something, and then compared with R9.5 expecting it to perform worse.
It was still 1 DSP bar.
... and there were at least some REs used.

Another project is just on the edge of Computer Too Slow.
Removing just 3 effect REs and the DSP bar went down 2 bars.

The Reason manual tells us that performance analysis is complex, and that's true for sure.
But I think the props should make a performance advisor that points out what REs in a project that's expensive performance wise. So much better user experience than handing that automatable task over to the user.

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