Complex from Propellerhead

[selig]

Ohh I mis represented what I meant. While I see what you mean and you are correct I just mean something along the lines of a limited size modular. Like for example take complex 1. But have drop down field arrows (like in an excel table) and have the option of having various oscillators filters etc

But yeah, if someone who was wanting a full blown system, you’d have to get use to building up and downwards due to the width restraint, do you think it’s possible for the props to add interchangeable oscillators to this synth as is though?

If I understand what's going on, my personal view (not based on any inside information) is that the limitations would involve the number and placement and name of the modulation points. All jacks would have to be in exactly the same place and have the same name (I could be wrong about this part) to work correctly. This means all connections would remain in place when you switched modules. This also means you could likely only select (at best) between a very limited number of similar modules, which is VERY non-modular at the core. It's only one small step away from the current setup, and there would certainly be no way for third party modules.

In fact, even adding what I described above, if possible, may require a whole new synth.

Of course, I would love to have different oscillators and filter options at the very least. But maybe there's a better way to do this, which is to do it as it is done with the Noise and Function module, where you select from a list of possible core options and the UI stays the same.

[selig]

I'm not joining this particular bandwagon for the time being, though I'm glad everyone else is enjoying it, it's just that the thing I love most about modulars is choosing my own modules.
Good thing Reason was already extremely modular prior to this release.

Maybe think of Complex-1 as a modular voice with CV, much like Mother-32, MiniBrute 2s, Neutron, and any of a handful of Eurorack "synth voice" Modules. Would you choose it in that case?

[jam-s]

Imho there should be more ext audio in/out and (audio rate) CV jacks on the back. (There's enough space left on the front to fit at least another 4 of each.)

[Breach The Sky]

This thing is... well, complex. How about some tutorial videos Props/anyone?

[selig]

Imho there should be more ext audio in/out and (audio rate) CV jacks on the back.

Basically, there are not because of what SuzzyEye already explained.


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[Melody303]

I'm not joining this particular bandwagon for the time being, though I'm glad everyone else is enjoying it, it's just that the thing I love most about modulars is choosing my own modules.
Good thing Reason was already extremely modular prior to this release.

Maybe think of Complex-1 as a modular voice with CV, much like Mother-32, MiniBrute 2s, Neutron, and any of a handful of Eurorack "synth voice" Modules. Would you choose it in that case?

Nope.
While in Eurorack it's certainly an easier starting point to grab an entire voice for a new rack, I would always prefer to pick all my (not-full-voice) modules one by one.

[jam-s]

Imho there should be more ext audio in/out and (audio rate) CV jacks on the back.

Basically, there are not because of what SuzzyEye already explained.

Sure, but I think just to have the option would be good despite the significant CPU hit when somebody starts using those additional jacks (there could be a warning on the back as well). Right now, I think its not all that "Reasonesque" with that few back connections.

[selig]

Maybe think of Complex-1 as a modular voice with CV, much like Mother-32, MiniBrute 2s, Neutron, and any of a handful of Eurorack "synth voice" Modules. Would you choose it in that case?

Nope.
While in Eurorack it's certainly an easier starting point to grab an entire voice for a new rack, I would always prefer to pick all my (not-full-voice) modules one by one.

Well sadly, nothing in the Reason world will fill the bill because there will always be hundreds if not thousands of options in Eurorack vs (potentially) a hand full of options in Complex-1, if that.

Besides, hardware is more fun in many ways (I’m getting ready to jump into that pool myself next year).


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[selig]

Sure, but I think just to have the option would be good despite the significant CPU hit when somebody starts using those additional jacks (there could be a warning on the back as well). Right now, I think its not all that "Reasonesque" with that few back connections.

I get that (and I agree with wanting “more”), but can only imagine the number of jacks present is no accident or speculation as to what would happen with more jacks.

I would guess that more jacks were initially attempted and the problems encountered suggested the current number of jacks. It’s not like the Props do things without a lot of consideration, and it’s also not like they don’t know that fewer jacks is not “Reasonesque”. Meaning, I’m guessing they weighed the options and landed on this solution as the best choice.


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[seqoi]

Tried it briefly. This is amazing synth but this does does not replace Viking-2 in any way - soundwise Viking-2 is different sounding. Different filters etc.

And this is actually a GREAT thing. One is completing other one.

Just my IMO.

[selig]

Tried it briefly. This is amazing synth but this does does not replace Viking-2 in any way - soundwise Viking-2 is different sounding. Different filters etc.

And this is actually a GREAT thing. One is completing other one.

Just my IMO.

It's more of a classic East coast vs West coast synth thing IMO - both are awesome!

[Melody303]

Nope.
While in Eurorack it's certainly an easier starting point to grab an entire voice for a new rack, I would always prefer to pick all my (not-full-voice) modules one by one.

Well sadly, nothing in the Reason world will fill the bill because there will always be hundreds if not thousands of options in Eurorack vs (potentially) a hand full of options in Complex-1, if that.

Besides, hardware is more fun in many ways (I’m getting ready to jump into that pool myself next year).


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Don't forget about Noise Engineering, Blamsoft, and Ochen K.
Regardless, I'm happy with both my virtual studio (Reason and the Rack Extensions I've chosen to buy through the years) and my physical rig (Analog 4 & Machinedrum + TB-3 & MS-70CDR). I don't actually have any Eurorack, but I'm ready to build myself one (probably along these lines: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/301105 ) should a lot of money I don't need for anything else shows up, and the Analog 4 could sequence it handily. :p

[adfielding]

I love it. It's just so damn fun to mess around with, and it sounds awesome I love a synth that sounds great and has its own unique character, and this has got both in spades. Plus... I mean, come on. Cables on the front.

[rpieket]

Has anyone figured out what is going on in the Complex-1 init patch? When I use "Reset Device", instead of getting a simple saw, I get a triangle with some kind of wave shaping and reverb + echo. But the wave shaper is not patched in, and the reverb is turned off. And I can't even find an echo module.

What is going on in the init patch? How do I strip it down to a simple saw with no effects?

-Ron.

[Adabler]

As someone who never heard of east coast/west coast synth before, I found this to be an interesting read:
https://reverb.com/news/the-basics-of-e ... -synthesis

[madmacman]

As someone who never heard of east coast/west coast synth before, I found this to be an interesting read:
https://reverb.com/news/the-basics-of-e ... -synthesis

I found the best definition over there at MuffWiggler's in a signature:

fat is warmer than digital is analog, except when it's more west than east, in which case cold is the hotness, but not very musical.

[ScuzzyEye]

I've had a bit of a play with it, and here are my impressions:

The GUI on this is brilliant. I know how it's done, but holy crap I don't know how they managed it.

It sounds grand too. I've really grown to hate aliasing. I can definitely appreciate any work done to minimize it. With simple waveforms it's possible design the oscillator in a way that it's band limited to start. Not so when you can have almost any wave possible. Oversampling is the way to go (I think it sounds better than band-limits oscs/distortion anyway).

What I don't like though, it that it's monophonic. This I really don't understand. Yes, real modulars are monophonic. And when you build your own with inter-device patching in the rack the audio is also mono. But the one benefit of doing all this front-of-rack, single device patching, is you could break those rules, and have each patch be copied to multiple voices in a fully polyphonic synth.

Also as astounding as the GUI is. It's no more powerful than Thor's modulation matrix. Perhaps less powerful, as in Thor two different sources can be patched to same target. And Thor is polyphonic. After the wow wears off, it feels more like a case of "because we could".

Ultimately I'm giving it a pass. At least until it becomes a Complex-N with more than one voice.

[Koshdukai]

The GUI on this is brilliant. I know how it's done, but holy crap I don't know how they managed it.

Exactly ...that's why it took a while and hasn't been done sooner

Also as astounding as the GUI is. It's no more powerful than Thor's modulation matrix. Perhaps less powerful, as in Thor two different sources can be patched to same target. And Thor is polyphonic.

This has the advantage of having more "mod matrix entries" vs Thor.

Also... speaking of polyphonic semi-modulars, there's Blamsoft's VK-2 too.

[antic604]

Have you guys seen the Manual? I think I'll start there! Also, the announcement came just in time for me - I was planning to finally choose this evening whether I'm upgrading Dune to v3, buying Hive 1.2 or Viper. Now I know where my money will go instead

On a different note - why is this in RtO, but QNG isn't?

[borracho]

OMG! Buchla synth is finally here!!! I was hoping to see at least complex osc and LPG in Reason some day... but a complete West Coast system inside Reason... my dreams came true!

Pheads,thank you!
Please add more input/outputs on the back!

[ScuzzyEye]

This has the advantage of having more "mod matrix entries" vs Thor.

I thought of that. It could be solved by making a scrolling modulation matrix. Not a nice as being able to see everything at once. Which cable patching gives you. But at some number of cables, telling what's going on with a glance is no longer possible, and you're tracing individual cables. That's probably no worse than scrolling a matrix.

There's also going to be an upper limit of how many cables can be run on the Complex-1 (especially with each input only receiving one cable). So that can be covered with a matrix of finite length (something like 256 rows should be sufficient).

[EnochLight]

On a different note - why is this in RtO, but QNG isn't?

Huh? What's RtO?

[antic604]

On a different note - why is this in RtO, but QNG isn't?

Huh? What's RtO?

Rent-to-Own

[selig]

Don't forget about Noise Engineering, Blamsoft, and Ochen K.

All of which suffer from all the problems Complex-1 (and Viking-2) do not!


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[Koshdukai]

This has the advantage of having more "mod matrix entries" vs Thor.

I thought of that. It could be solved by making a scrolling modulation matrix. Not a nice as being able to see everything at once. Which cable patching gives you. But at some number of cables, telling what's going on with a glance is no longer possible, and you're tracing individual cables. That's probably no worse than scrolling a matrix.

There's also going to be an upper limit of how many cables can be run on the Complex-1 (especially with each input only receiving one cable). So that can be covered with a matrix of finite length (something like 256 rows should be sufficient).

All true, but I meant "currently" as in, what we have today in Thor and Complex-1

There's always the scroll/multi-page solution on a mod matrix (some REs have it) which also has the advantage of easier attenuation or extra mod ratio sources, etc
Some are "scared" by modulation "spreadsheets" , others are scared of wiring spaghetti so... it's nice to have examples of both