Goodbye Hydlide?

[fieldframe]

I have no interest in wading through whatever YouTube drama preceded this, but the idea of Propellerhead terminating an account attached to hundreds of euros worth of software, for *any* reason, is concerning. I’m pretty sure there are EU consumer protection laws that have something to say about this.

[antic604]

What would happen to someone's Rack Extensions in this case?

REs are tied to your Propellerhead account, so it depends whether they've terminated the account or *just* the Reason license. In latter case, he could still use the demo or even purchase Reason again. In former, he'd loose everything.

But I really doubt Props have terminated anything - from all we've seen so far, they've no right to do so, because if batch & moaning is enough of a reason, I'd have my license terminated long ago...

[Wobbleburger]

And check out the latest chapter in the Hydlide drama:

Good riddance

[bxbrkrz]

What would happen to someone's Rack Extensions in this case?

In this case, all RE's used in your projects are saved in your project. But if he no longer has a Reason license, he can't access purchased RE's without getting a Reason license.

Then it would be logical for him to get a refund for the purchased REs.

[EnochLight]

And check out the latest chapter in the Hydlide drama: .youtube.com/watch?v=UMfsKztbbsY

Good riddance

I seriously can't be arsed to wade through a 25 minute video of him blabbing. Can you please just summarize the gist of the video?

[EnochLight]

Then it would be logical for him to get a refund for the purchased REs.

Why? He still has those licenses, and if he gets another Reason license, he'll have access to all of them. He (presumably) violated his Reason EULA; not his RE's.

[aeox]

And check out the latest chapter in the Hydlide drama: .youtube.com/watch?v=UMfsKztbbsY

Good riddance

I seriously can't be arsed to wade through a 25 minute video of him blabbing. Can you please just summarize the gist of the video?

Illusory superiority and narcissism..

[adfielding]

I've only skimmed the videos but I feel like I'm missing something here. I'm sure that PH addressed the topic of VST performance issues in Reason, and that they mentioned they were working on a performance update (which I am very much looking forward to). It sucks that these issues exist, but beyond actually addressing the issue (which is exactly what it sounds like they're doing?) I'm not quite sure what else they could do at this point.

No idea what's going on with the whole "license revoked" scenario - like I said, I only skimmed the videos but I'm still none-the-wiser. Anyone fancy providing a concise summary?

[EnochLight]

I seriously can't be arsed to wade through a 25 minute video of him blabbing. Can you please just summarize the gist of the video?

Illusory superiority and narcissism..

[chimp_spanner]

I've only skimmed the videos but I feel like I'm missing something here. I'm sure that PH addressed the topic of VST performance issues in Reason, and that they mentioned they were working on a performance update (which I am very much looking forward to). It sucks that these issues exist, but beyond actually addressing the issue (which is exactly what it sounds like they're doing?) I'm not quite sure what else they could do at this point.

No idea what's going on with the whole "license revoked" scenario - like I said, I only skimmed the videos but I'm still none-the-wiser. Anyone fancy providing a concise summary?

It's not really VST he's talking about. The implication is that he's "discovered" something from Reason 8 onwards that's causing all-round poor performance, that the VST will do little-to-nothing to address it, and furthermore that he will violate the EULA to reveal the cause in a subsequent video. Which, if I had to guess, is what put him on the shit-list.

All of which is weird because - and I sound like a broken record here - I work and record in Reason almost every day. If I was unable to play a chord in eXpanse, or video capture for my work, or use VSTs or make music, I would've jumped ship a long time ago, despite the absurd amount of Rack Extensions I've bought. I definitely don't remember there being any performance drop from 7-8, but it was such a long time ago ya know.

That's not to say there are no problems at all. Like you said, PH have acknowledged this with regard to VSTs. REs...I'm not sure I ever saw a problem, at least not on my particular setup. I see people making comments on the video like "performance was never this bad". Compared to what? Reason 5? R5 didn't have virtual analogue synths like VK2 or granular synthesis or spectral waveshaping. It's *gonna* use more CPU. Yeah I can stack like 32 Thors in a Combinator, load a different patch in each one and play a chord without my fan even revving up. No way would I expect to do that with Europa.

Of course there might also be issues with the current gen of CPUs. I've seen a couple of people with i9s and Threadrippers reporting underwhelming results. I'm still on an old 4th gen i7 mobile chip so...can't really comment.

It's just an all-round shitty way for this to play out. Sucks for him, sucks for PH to have to do it (if they even did...I mean I'll believe it when I see proof tbh).

[EnochLight]

It's just an all-round shitty way for this to play out. Sucks for him, sucks for PH to have to do it (if they even did...I mean I'll believe it when I see proof tbh).

It sucks all around, but to play devil's advocate... if you seriously do something so idiotic with your EULA that a dev pulls your license, you've really screwed the pooch and had it coming. No one does something like this "accidentally". He knew what he was doing, and he enjoys the celebrity. He's a YouTuber, after all.

[OverneathTheSkyBridg]

Watching this saga unfold has been pretty cringey. I don't see why he'd risk his $3K+ worth of software in the first place just to be some sort of hero. Just move on to Ableton if you have to and stop buying Reason shit, and wait for the performance enhancements. Aside from that, it's doubtful that they've even banned him.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk

[adfielding]

It's not really VST he's talking about. The implication is that he's "discovered" something from Reason 8 onwards that's causing all-round poor performance, that the VST will do little-to-nothing to address it, and furthermore that he will violate the EULA to reveal the cause in a subsequent video. Which, if I had to guess, is what put him on the shit-list.

All of which is weird because - and I sound like a broken record here - I work and record in Reason almost every day. If I was unable to play a chord in eXpanse, or video capture for my work, or use VSTs or make music, I would've jumped ship a long time ago, despite the absurd amount of Rack Extensions I've bought. I definitely don't remember there being any performance drop from 7-8, but it was such a long time ago ya know.

That's not to say there are no problems at all. Like you said, PH have acknowledged this with regard to VSTs. REs...I'm not sure I ever saw a problem, at least not on my particular setup. I see people making comments on the video like "performance was never this bad". Compared to what? Reason 5? R5 didn't have virtual analogue synths like VK2 or granular synthesis or spectral waveshaping. It's *gonna* use more CPU. Yeah I can stack like 32 Thors in a Combinator, load a different patch in each one and play a chord without my fan even revving up. No way would I expect to do that with Europa.

Of course there might also be issues with the current gen of CPUs. I've seen a couple of people with i9s and Threadrippers reporting underwhelming results. I'm still on an old 4th gen i7 mobile chip so...can't really comment.

It's just an all-round shitty way for this to play out. Sucks for him, sucks for PH to have to do it (if they even did...I mean I'll believe it when I see proof tbh).

Ahh whoops - that’s what I get for skimming thanks for the explanation!

[jappe]

I experience the problems with DSP meter going up when scrolling.
And this is on a machine that didn't have that problem before, so I don't see lack of GPU acceleration as the problem.
Further, I'm not sure if this has happened after a Reason patch or a Windows 10 patch.
It's as if it's a resource lock problem rather than a CPU performance problem.

a) you might notice it more, because you're looking for it now as the DSP became more "precious" after introduction of VSTs,
b) the DSP bars aren't precise - there's 5 of them and single bar covers 20% of available DSP, therefore the meter might not jump while scrolling if you're at 25% and it might start jumping when you're at 35%, whereas both - when not scrolling - would show 2 DSP bars being used,

I also THINK (but I'm not sure) it's related to heperthreading being enabled or not. I THINK when it's ON, single logical core (1 out of 4 in my case) is reserved for GUI, whereas when it's OFF the load is "shared" with the actual DSP processing. With it ON, the diagnostic tools show 3 logical cores used a lot (like 90%) and the 4th is only at 15-20%. As a result, on the very same project, I THINK I hear clicks & pops sooner when hyperthreading is OFF when I scroll the Rack or Mixer. But on the flip side, if that's the case (1 logical core is reserved for rendering the GUI when it's ON) then overall I get more DSP available when it's OFF.

Screenshots to "prove" that:

- hyperthreading ON - notice the 4 blue meters in the right side of the Windows taskbar: 3 are filled in, 4th is barely used & I guess that's were GUI rendering is happening,

https://i.imgur.com/IzT0QB6.png

- hyperthreading OFF - notice how only 2 cores are used AND also how % CPU load in Task Manager is lower

https://i.imgur.com/T0DQHwW.png

a), no, this is a real problem with significant impact that I didn't have before. From a stable "safe" DSP level I get crackles when I scroll. I also don't use VST's.
Hyperthreading is off.

It could be some graphic driver issue, but I experience it on two entirely different machines and I've tried reinstalling drivers.
Or some Windows 10 patch - I really don't know.

[chimp_spanner]

a) you might notice it more, because you're looking for it now as the DSP became more "precious" after introduction of VSTs,
b) the DSP bars aren't precise - there's 5 of them and single bar covers 20% of available DSP, therefore the meter might not jump while scrolling if you're at 25% and it might start jumping when you're at 35%, whereas both - when not scrolling - would show 2 DSP bars being used,

I also THINK (but I'm not sure) it's related to heperthreading being enabled or not. I THINK when it's ON, single logical core (1 out of 4 in my case) is reserved for GUI, whereas when it's OFF the load is "shared" with the actual DSP processing. With it ON, the diagnostic tools show 3 logical cores used a lot (like 90%) and the 4th is only at 15-20%. As a result, on the very same project, I THINK I hear clicks & pops sooner when hyperthreading is OFF when I scroll the Rack or Mixer. But on the flip side, if that's the case (1 logical core is reserved for rendering the GUI when it's ON) then overall I get more DSP available when it's OFF.

Screenshots to "prove" that:

- hyperthreading ON - notice the 4 blue meters in the right side of the Windows taskbar: 3 are filled in, 4th is barely used & I guess that's were GUI rendering is happening,

https://i.imgur.com/IzT0QB6.png

- hyperthreading OFF - notice how only 2 cores are used AND also how % CPU load in Task Manager is lower

https://i.imgur.com/T0DQHwW.png

a), no, this is a real problem with significant impact that I didn't have before. From a stable "safe" DSP level I get crackles when I scroll. I also don't use VST's.
Hyperthreading is off.

It could be some graphic driver issue, but I experience it on two entirely different machines and I've tried reinstalling drivers.
Or some Windows 10 patch - I really don't know.

What system dya have Jappe? Only with busy projects or just all the time?

[jappe]

a), no, this is a real problem with significant impact that I didn't have before. From a stable "safe" DSP level I get crackles when I scroll. I also don't use VST's.
Hyperthreading is off.

It could be some graphic driver issue, but I experience it on two entirely different machines and I've tried reinstalling drivers.
Or some Windows 10 patch - I really don't know.

What system dya have Jappe? Only with busy projects or just all the time?

Current machine is an ASUS G75V laptop, Intel i7-3630QM 2.4 GHz, GEFORCE GTX 660M

It's a project where I'm using Bitleys refills, which tend to be lightweight.
I can make it crackle when only Drumtrack, Vocals and Pad plays simultaneously.
I have many other unused tracks with Bitley patches, and DSP meter hits 3 bars without playing. When I start to play it goes up one bar.
When I scroll the DSP goes up and down, I hear crackle even when it's not red.

There are plenty RE:s in the effect chain though - but very few for the tracks actually playing.

[chimp_spanner]

Have you tried using the nVidia control panel to force Reason to use accelerated graphics? Or alternatively force it to use intel HD?

[jappe]

Have you tried using the nVidia control panel to force Reason to use accelerated graphics? Or alternatively force it to use intel HD?

Hmm good suggestion; no I haven't. I'm using the plug and play driver so assumed default is the accelerated graphics; I'll install the nvidia panel and post results, thanks:-)

[chimp_spanner]

Have you tried using the nVidia control panel to force Reason to use accelerated graphics? Or alternatively force it to use intel HD?

Hmm good suggestion; no I haven't. I'm using the plug and play driver so assumed default is the accelerated graphics; I'll install the nvidia panel and post results, thanks:-)

Let me know how you get on! I remember a long ass time ago I had to do some mucking around with drivers to get smooth scrolling. Not sure if I ever fixed it or if it just got resolved with a new driver, but always use the full/proper drivers for your graphics! You’ll be missing out if not!

[aeox]

* yes, I saw his 1st videos about i9 performance but they were flawed in that he was using a single polyphonic instance of Expanse and - as everyone is aware, right? - most devices will only use single thread/core, so it's possible to choke a CPU even if it's multi-core; he should probably try Serum or some of the U-He's synths, as they support multi-core processors for separate voices.

Hmm, when I load VK-2 and play a chord it fires up 15/16 cores on my computer

[EnochLight]

* yes, I saw his 1st videos about i9 performance but they were flawed in that he was using a single polyphonic instance of Expanse and - as everyone is aware, right? - most devices will only use single thread/core, so it's possible to choke a CPU even if it's multi-core; he should probably try Serum or some of the U-He's synths, as they support multi-core processors for separate voices.

Hmm, when I load VK-2 and play a chord it fires up 15/16 cores on my computer

Which CPU is that? Is that an 8-core CPU that you're Hyperhreading, or an actual 16 core CPU?

[aeox]

Hmm, when I load VK-2 and play a chord it fires up 15/16 cores on my computer

Which CPU is that? Is that an 8-core CPU that you're Hyperhreading, or an actual 16 core CPU?

It's actual 16 cores, I have hyperthreading turned off in the bios.

[EnochLight]

Which CPU is that? Is that an 8-core CPU that you're Hyperhreading, or an actual 16 core CPU?

It's actual 16 cores, I have hyperthreading turned off in the bios.

What CPU? The DSP seems exceedly high for just one Viking instance.

[antic604]

Which CPU is that? Is that an 8-core CPU that you're Hyperhreading, or an actual 16 core CPU?

It's actual 16 cores, I have hyperthreading turned off in the bios.

It's the same issue Hydelide was reporting with his i9. Question is, is this real load or a phantom one? Can you copy this VK-2 instance several times and does it still work?

[EnochLight]

Man. My 8 year old 4-core i7 2600 doesn't even push a bar - maybe 2 - with VK-2 poly patches.