How Did Reason Miss The Modular Boat So Badly
With the relatively new VCV Rack and Softube Modular there are now two solid options for people looking for a virtualized rack, but how did Reason miss this opportunity so badly when it has used the rack metaphore for so long?
I know Noise Engineering have bought some of their excellent modules to the RE format, but that's pretty much it. Maybe other developers will follow, but at the moment that is a pipe dream.
It seems that despite being rack-based, the majority of REs are effects, synths and rompers. There are a few developers making more modular devices, but they aren't really in the same ballpark as some of the Eurorack devices available.
Why do people think this is? Why have two alternative platforms been developed by other companies in order to allow people to use virtualized racks when one already existed with an app-store built in and a large number of existing users?
This isn't a snarky question. I'm just genuinely interested in how this opportunity was missed. I know Reason has been moving further and further away from its modular roots and more towards a plug-and-play/presets-loving market, but it seems there are still a large number of people using it for more modular applications. And it's absolutely built for that application. In fact you could argue that its modular nature is exactly what is preventing it from achieving more popularity beyond.
I know Noise Engineering have bought some of their excellent modules to the RE format, but that's pretty much it. Maybe other developers will follow, but at the moment that is a pipe dream.
It seems that despite being rack-based, the majority of REs are effects, synths and rompers. There are a few developers making more modular devices, but they aren't really in the same ballpark as some of the Eurorack devices available.
Why do people think this is? Why have two alternative platforms been developed by other companies in order to allow people to use virtualized racks when one already existed with an app-store built in and a large number of existing users?
This isn't a snarky question. I'm just genuinely interested in how this opportunity was missed. I know Reason has been moving further and further away from its modular roots and more towards a plug-and-play/presets-loving market, but it seems there are still a large number of people using it for more modular applications. And it's absolutely built for that application. In fact you could argue that its modular nature is exactly what is preventing it from achieving more popularity beyond.
I think there's a misunderstanding that the concept of rack devices means a focus on modular synthesis. Reason's main purpose is music creation and the rack is simply an emulation of how studios use to (and in some cases still) look and work before softsynths. It was common for a production studio to have multiple synths, samplers, romplers and perhaps even fx racks. In recording studios, it's still common to see outboard fx. Yes Reason included the possibilities for modular setups by including CV, but the vast majority of music makers in general aren't into modular synthesis. It's a very niche thing. That's why there aren't many VST platforms for it besides Softube modular and VCV rack. I personally don't think modular synthesis was ever Reason's primary focus.
I think PH should have still make steps in the modular direction perhaps with a separate Program which could work as part of Reason if one want it to just like Record did.
Also creating different format REs like half Rack and vertical sub racks would be beneficial for this separate modular environment as well as inside Reason.
Also creating different format REs like half Rack and vertical sub racks would be beneficial for this separate modular environment as well as inside Reason.
Budapest, Hungary
Reason 11 Suite
Lenovo ThinkPad e520 Win10x64 8GB RAM Intel i5-2520M 2,5-3,2 GHz and AMD 6630M with 1GB of memory.
Interesting to note that even Reaktor, which could be considered one of the ultimate “modular” environments and an app that has been around as long as Reason, only very recently added a specific modular environment (Bocks). For Reason to enter this area they would have to do the same thing IMO, and who knows if the market is strong enough for them to devote the necessary resources to this endeavor.
[emoji3]
Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk
[emoji3]
Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk
Selig Audio, LLC
Reason was and is modular. They just could increased this thing a bit more to the next level. But tbh, most ppl do not want and need modular stuff and they just want to press a button and have awsome results - they are not much into exploring, rather than using. IMO PH made a good balance for usage and modularity - and both types could still be implemented better and more (pun intended...).
All eyes on the next release of Reason. PH has to deliver...
All eyes on the next release of Reason. PH has to deliver...
Reason12, Win10
Most CV "tricks" can be done with LFO/Envelope curve-bank by controlling the 1-127 of any parameter. I never use CV that much either as I'm not a believer of CV-magic that much. But when making sound-design, then I like to have some fun with CV.
This ^^. We're talking probably te first app that was really modular. I guess you'd need smaller/simpler devices to look at reason as a real modular app but IMHO though it is not the core of reason now you can still pretty much use it as a modular application.Loque wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018Reason was and is modular. They just could increased this thing a bit more to the next level. But tbh, most ppl do not want and need modular stuff and they just want to press a button and have awsome results - they are not much into exploring, rather than using. IMO PH made a good balance for usage and modularity - and both types could still be implemented better and more (pun intended...).
All eyes on the next release of Reason. PH has to deliver...
TBH, maybe it wasn't reason who lost the "modular boat" but people that are not using it's modular features so often.
I agree, but it was in a pretty unique position to use the rack metaphore to make it happen given that it already had everything needed in place, CV not least of all. And the interest in modular is huge and growing rapidly.I think there's a misunderstanding that the concept of rack devices means a focus on modular synthesis.
Every synth, FX and utility can be used in a modular manner inside Reason.
There is the Polymodular System by Blamsoft.
There is the A-Series by Ochen K.
There is the Analog Sequencer by DLD (all other sequencers can be used too for modular sequencing).
Also take a look at the Tres Mono Synth and the Etch Red Dual Filter by FXpansion.
Search the shop for "filter" or "envelope" and you will be surprised what's already there.
And don't forget the KRON CV Toolbox by Alien Seed Tech.
There is the Polymodular System by Blamsoft.
There is the A-Series by Ochen K.
There is the Analog Sequencer by DLD (all other sequencers can be used too for modular sequencing).
Also take a look at the Tres Mono Synth and the Etch Red Dual Filter by FXpansion.
Search the shop for "filter" or "envelope" and you will be surprised what's already there.
And don't forget the KRON CV Toolbox by Alien Seed Tech.
Not saying there isn't a market for it at all. But in comparison to most music makers, the modular crowd is small. A million is still a small amount compared to several billions for example. Indeed they could have made it happen, but it comes down to their target audience which seems to be a more general audience while still providing a tease of cv modularity. That's not to say that more modular features won't ever be added though.Undistraction wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018I agree, but it was in a pretty unique position to use the rack metaphore to make it happen given that it already had everything needed in place, CV not least of all. And the interest in modular is huge and growing rapidly.I think there's a misunderstanding that the concept of rack devices means a focus on modular synthesis.
Your comment just made me think, how long i would need to explain to a friend that plays in a band what "CV" is and where it can be used...QVprod wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018Not saying there isn't a market for it at all. But in comparison to most music makers, the modular crowd is small. A million is still a small amount compared to several billions for example. Indeed they could have made it happen, but it comes down to their target audience which seems to be a more general audience while still providing a tease of cv modularity. That's not to say that more modular features won't ever be added though.Undistraction wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018
I agree, but it was in a pretty unique position to use the rack metaphore to make it happen given that it already had everything needed in place, CV not least of all. And the interest in modular is huge and growing rapidly.
Reason12, Win10
Exactly! If I weren't a Reason user than hung out on the PUF, I wouldn't know either.Loque wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018Your comment just made me think, how long i would need to explain to a friend that plays in a band what "CV" is and where it can be used...QVprod wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018
Not saying there isn't a market for it at all. But in comparison to most music makers, the modular crowd is small. A million is still a small amount compared to several billions for example. Indeed they could have made it happen, but it comes down to their target audience which seems to be a more general audience while still providing a tease of cv modularity. That's not to say that more modular features won't ever be added though.
The point of my question was really that there was already an ecosystem (Reason) with many users that already offered a way to monetise devices (The Store and lately subs) and supplied everything needed for modular developers to move from hardware to software (The SDK) and capabilities for hooking into hardwear, yet this hasn't happened (except Noise Engineering).
I know there are lots of modular-style devices (I own many of them), but compared to the wierd and wonderful focused devices available for Eurorack etc, there is a dirth of REs that have adopted the modular ethos.
Just seems like a missed opportunity to me.
I know there are lots of modular-style devices (I own many of them), but compared to the wierd and wonderful focused devices available for Eurorack etc, there is a dirth of REs that have adopted the modular ethos.
Just seems like a missed opportunity to me.
So you would like to see Eurorack style modules as REs.Undistraction wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018The point of my question was really that there was already an ecosystem (Reason) with many users that already offered a way to monetise devices (The Store and lately subs) and supplied everything needed for modular developers to move from hardware to software (The SDK) and capabilities for hooking into hardwear, yet this hasn't happened (except Noise Engineering).
I know there are lots of modular-style devices (I own many of them), but compared to the wierd and wonderful focused devices available for Eurorack etc, there is a dirth of REs that have adopted the modular ethos.
Just seems like a missed opportunity to me.
Yea, i got your point. I am into it. But most , well at least a lot of ppl are not. For me, add some more modular stuff, make Reason more modular in itself. Cables on the front. audio rate modulation, interchange modules even in synths, PDC within a cable chain and and and....Undistraction wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018The point of my question was really that there was already an ecosystem (Reason) with many users that already offered a way to monetise devices (The Store and lately subs) and supplied everything needed for modular developers to move from hardware to software (The SDK) and capabilities for hooking into hardwear, yet this hasn't happened (except Noise Engineering).
I know there are lots of modular-style devices (I own many of them), but compared to the wierd and wonderful focused devices available for Eurorack etc, there is a dirth of REs that have adopted the modular ethos.
Just seems like a missed opportunity to me.
But for most ppl make it simple, let them get the "job" done quickly. Oh...that is, what i want too
Reason12, Win10
A huge step forward could be done with modules that mirror knobs on the back side of the rack and by doubling CV with audio cables (see VK-2 and Selig Gain). I don't expect that Propellerhead will do a lot here.
I think I should give it a start and grab one of the open-source VCV modules and make a port to a free RE as I described above.
What do you think?
I think I should give it a start and grab one of the open-source VCV modules and make a port to a free RE as I described above.
What do you think?
I guess I just don't buy into the false dichotomy that it has to be one or the other. (I know you're not saying that), but a lot of threads seem to deteriorate into an 'I don't want this therefore nobody wants this' back and forth. I specifically find this subject interesting because it wouldn't require much (if anything) from Propellerhead because it's already in place. It's a cultural barrier rather than a technological one.Loque wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018Yea, i got your point. I am into it. But most , well at least a lot of ppl are not. For me, add some more modular stuff, make Reason more modular in itself. Cables on the front. audio rate modulation, interchange modules even in synths, PDC within a cable chain and and and....Undistraction wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018The point of my question was really that there was already an ecosystem (Reason) with many users that already offered a way to monetise devices (The Store and lately subs) and supplied everything needed for modular developers to move from hardware to software (The SDK) and capabilities for hooking into hardwear, yet this hasn't happened (except Noise Engineering).
I know there are lots of modular-style devices (I own many of them), but compared to the wierd and wonderful focused devices available for Eurorack etc, there is a dirth of REs that have adopted the modular ethos.
Just seems like a missed opportunity to me.
But for most ppl make it simple, let them get the "job" done quickly. Oh...that is, what i want too
I think that would be bloody great.Ahornberg wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018A huge step forward could be done with modules that mirror knobs on the back side of the rack and by doubling CV with audio cables (see VK-2 and Selig Gain). I don't expect that Propellerhead will do a lot here.
I think I should give it a start and grab one of the open-source VCV modules and make a port to a free RE as I described above.
What do you think?
I would like to start with VCV's Texture Synthesizer, aka "Clouds".Undistraction wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018I think that would be bloody great.Ahornberg wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018A huge step forward could be done with modules that mirror knobs on the back side of the rack and by doubling CV with audio cables (see VK-2 and Selig Gain). I don't expect that Propellerhead will do a lot here.
I think I should give it a start and grab one of the open-source VCV modules and make a port to a free RE as I described above.
What do you think?
- kuhliloach
- Posts: 881
- Joined: 09 Dec 2015
I've been using both the bridge and VST versions of VCV Rack inside of Reason.
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=7507652&p=401291
Reason's rack being "modular" and "modular synthesis" itself have a lot in common, and I see Reason as being naturally the king of modular in the DAW world. I expect the modular crowd to gravitate towards Reason because of this and the rack being so modular puts Reason way "ahead of its time."
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=7507652&p=401291
Reason's rack being "modular" and "modular synthesis" itself have a lot in common, and I see Reason as being naturally the king of modular in the DAW world. I expect the modular crowd to gravitate towards Reason because of this and the rack being so modular puts Reason way "ahead of its time."
The interaction with a modular system is very hands on and very visual, but you could be legally blind and fully control a modular system without much help after a while. As long as you have to patch with a mouse a physical modular system will always be faster and/or unpredictable in a fun way. Instead of somebody missing the proverbial boat, I see two worlds working great together, especially for sound design. It's a plus, not a minus.
757365206C6F67696320746F207365656B20616E73776572732075736520726561736F6E20746F2066696E6420776973646F6D20676574206F7574206F6620796F757220636F6D666F7274207A6F6E65206F7220796F757220696E737069726174696F6E2077696C6C206372797374616C6C697A6520666F7265766572
- theshoemaker
- Posts: 595
- Joined: 21 Nov 2015
- Location: Germany
- Contact:
I would already be more modular, if it had less artificial restrictions. or to say more remotable items on the devices.
latest V12 on MacOS Ventura
-
- Information
-
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: stillifegaijin, winterdunkel and 13 guests