Idk, music isn't really in that "Get shit done and get to work safely" category of things, is it? I mean people use old samplers and synths and they're definitely more cumbersome to program and handle than ITB instruments..Krell wrote: ↑22 Jun 2018Reason is like an old car. It's quirky and characterful but once you've driven a modern car with all the modern conveniences and engineering that make it easier to drive, faster, safer and reliable that old banger is a shit of a thing to drive. Sure it has charm and its cool to take it for a spin now and then but you sure don't want to have it as your daily drive...
Are You Serious?!
I absolutely agree. Reason is like a charming old sampler, pain in the ass but weirdly inspiring. I wouldn't necessarily write a whole track on an S1000 either though, although you can create some very cool drum sounds on one
Reason 12 // Bitwig 4 // Live 11 // Logic Pro X // Fabfilter // Soundtoys // Arturia // Vintage Hardware
EXACTLY!Krell wrote: ↑22 Jun 2018Reason is like an old car. It's quirky and characterful but once you've driven a modern car with all the modern conveniences and engineering that make it easier to drive, faster, safer and reliable that old banger is a shit of a thing to drive. Sure it has charm and its cool to take it for a spin now and then but you sure don't want to have it as your daily drive...
And seeing you're also using Bitwig I'm not surprised we think alike
On the contrary. Absence of choice - in my example: inability to make my own keyboard shortcuts or arrange & group tracks how I like - is a limitation. Sure, it stems from the features being simple, but it's still a limitation.normen wrote: ↑22 Jun 2018Your sarcasm doesn't quite work there - he said limited, not simple.
And yeah, understanding why you don't want to (have to) control every last single bit about your workflow or life in general... I guess that comes with age At some point a lot of things just get too boring to obsess about.
Also, as you're getting older you start to realise and be annoyed by things that are wasting your time (which - by then - is very precious), seem easy to fix but for some reason aren't.
- Creativemind
- Posts: 4903
- Joined: 17 Jan 2015
- Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
I never said ditch the rack...that's what makes Reason Reason.
Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3
A lot of people are way too concerned about getting everything to fit their needs, not giving a toss about the big picture. If only people would just be reasonable and take the approach you mention... But no, "it HAS to fit MY needs, because I've paid for it and so I can expect my every demand to be top priority!"QVprod wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018I say this a lot, but I'll say it again; It's a lot less frustrating when you use software for what it's good at. Use something else for what it's not good at. Trying to hack the software to do more than what it's designed to do is only going to bring even more frustration. If you find a DAW that does everything you want it to, then switch. Life is simple.
This IS about the big picture. We're stuck working with a sequencer that feels very antiquated in key areas. Not because we don't have specific feaures like multi-layer editing or this or that, but because of the culmination of elementary things that are either missing or implemented in a way that is outdated.Sorped wrote: ↑23 Jun 2018A lot of people are way too concerned about getting everything to fit their needs, not giving a toss about the big picture. If only people would just be reasonable and take the approach you mention... But no, "it HAS to fit MY needs, because I've paid for it and so I can expect my every demand to be top priority!"QVprod wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018I say this a lot, but I'll say it again; It's a lot less frustrating when you use software for what it's good at. Use something else for what it's not good at. Trying to hack the software to do more than what it's designed to do is only going to bring even more frustration. If you find a DAW that does everything you want it to, then switch. Life is simple.
Theres two kinds of people - those who get angry while using a computer and those who don't Problem with computers is it's always your fault, that's hard to stomach for many people. You bought the wrong software, hardware, whatever. You didn't find the correct button. You can't program and understand shit about what this thing is actually doing. For many people thats frustrating.Sorped wrote: ↑23 Jun 2018A lot of people are way too concerned about getting everything to fit their needs, not giving a toss about the big picture. If only people would just be reasonable and take the approach you mention... But no, "it HAS to fit MY needs, because I've paid for it and so I can expect my every demand to be top priority!"
Additionally - talking negatively about something make you sound a bit smarter and that's tempting to many people. I mean most people complaining talk extensively about how feature X missing in Reason and how bad Reason is because of that. That's not really productive - if you wanted anyone to get excited about your idea for feature X you should talk about how great it works in the other DAW. But theres the issue: It's much harder to stand by something you say you think is great than keeping to bash something else.
Meaning they'd know that if they were just emphasizing how great feature X is in DAW Y they KNOW that asshole Z will do what they're doing instead - bashing DAW Y.
We're seeing "big picture" differently. Sure we should want Reason to be as great as it can be, but the Big Picture should be the music making no? I can't change the capabilities of the software, but I can either work around limitations or use something that doesn't have those limitations. OP states he tried to "outsmart dumb software" and if you've happened to read threads he's created here, it was generally him trying to add functionality or do some type of eccentric setup that no one actually understood. Of course in that case you're going to be frustrated. You're not actually making any music. Could the sequencer use some updates? Yes. But it records midi just like any other sequencer does and at the basic level that's mostly what's needed. Personally, when I need more than what I feel Reason is best at, I just use something else.Ermitage wrote: ↑23 Jun 2018This IS about the big picture. We're stuck working with a sequencer that feels very antiquated in key areas. Not because we don't have specific feaures like multi-layer editing or this or that, but because of the culmination of elementary things that are either missing or implemented in a way that is outdated.Sorped wrote: ↑23 Jun 2018
A lot of people are way too concerned about getting everything to fit their needs, not giving a toss about the big picture. If only people would just be reasonable and take the approach you mention... But no, "it HAS to fit MY needs, because I've paid for it and so I can expect my every demand to be top priority!"
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Some very strange replies in this thread.
Every DAW has its own unique style, of course. But why is it unreasonable to expect a DAW to keep up-to-date with hi-resolution graphics, or consistent labels across tracks, or curved automation? All other DAWS do this without losing their signature style. These things do not require Propellerhead to change their core style at all, simply to provide a modern and usable interface.
It is not a good policy for the future to say "this software has always had bad VST performance, so there is no need to improve it, use another DAW if you need good performance"...
I'm glad to see that props have decided to improve VST performance, it shows that they are thinking about the future. Lets hope a hi-res GUI, automation curves and so on, are soon to follow.
Every DAW has its own unique style, of course. But why is it unreasonable to expect a DAW to keep up-to-date with hi-resolution graphics, or consistent labels across tracks, or curved automation? All other DAWS do this without losing their signature style. These things do not require Propellerhead to change their core style at all, simply to provide a modern and usable interface.
It is not a good policy for the future to say "this software has always had bad VST performance, so there is no need to improve it, use another DAW if you need good performance"...
I'm glad to see that props have decided to improve VST performance, it shows that they are thinking about the future. Lets hope a hi-res GUI, automation curves and so on, are soon to follow.
I don't think anyone said this.chaosroyale wrote: ↑23 Jun 2018Some very strange replies in this thread.
Every DAW has its own unique style, of course. But why is it unreasonable to expect a DAW to keep up-to-date with hi-resolution graphics, or consistent labels across tracks, or curved automation? All other DAWS do this without losing their signature style. These things do not require Propellerhead to change their core style at all, simply to provide a modern and usable interface.
Way to shut down a good discussion!normen wrote: ↑23 Jun 2018Theres two kinds of people - those who get angry while using a computer and those who don't Problem with computers is it's always your fault, that's hard to stomach for many people. You bought the wrong software, hardware, whatever. You didn't find the correct button. You can't program and understand shit about what this thing is actually doing. For many people thats frustrating.Sorped wrote: ↑23 Jun 2018A lot of people are way too concerned about getting everything to fit their needs, not giving a toss about the big picture. If only people would just be reasonable and take the approach you mention... But no, "it HAS to fit MY needs, because I've paid for it and so I can expect my every demand to be top priority!"
Additionally - talking negatively about something make you sound a bit smarter and that's tempting to many people. I mean most people complaining talk extensively about how feature X missing in Reason and how bad Reason is because of that. That's not really productive - if you wanted anyone to get excited about your idea for feature X you should talk about how great it works in the other DAW. But theres the issue: It's much harder to stand by something you say you think is great than keeping to bash something else.
Meaning they'd know that if they were just emphasizing how great feature X is in DAW Y they KNOW that asshole Z will do what they're doing instead - bashing DAW Y.
How do I prove to you I'm not computer illiterate and/or that I'm not stupid? Do I now need to provide a sample of code and IQ report before I post? Do I really need to explain how "awesome" high-DPI support, multi-clip editing or folder grouping are?
Some questions:antic604 wrote: ↑23 Jun 2018Way to shut down a good discussion!normen wrote: ↑23 Jun 2018
Theres two kinds of people - those who get angry while using a computer and those who don't Problem with computers is it's always your fault, that's hard to stomach for many people. You bought the wrong software, hardware, whatever. You didn't find the correct button. You can't program and understand shit about what this thing is actually doing. For many people thats frustrating.
Additionally - talking negatively about something make you sound a bit smarter and that's tempting to many people. I mean most people complaining talk extensively about how feature X missing in Reason and how bad Reason is because of that. That's not really productive - if you wanted anyone to get excited about your idea for feature X you should talk about how great it works in the other DAW. But theres the issue: It's much harder to stand by something you say you think is great than keeping to bash something else.
Meaning they'd know that if they were just emphasizing how great feature X is in DAW Y they KNOW that asshole Z will do what they're doing instead - bashing DAW Y.
How do I prove to you I'm not computer illiterate and/or that I'm not stupid? Do I now need to provide a sample of code and IQ report before I post? Do I really need to explain how "awesome" high-DPI support, multi-clip editing or folder grouping are?
a) Why did you feel like I was talking about you specifically?
b) How did I „shut down“ the discussion? With a good point?
c) Who said they don‘t want „HiDPI“ or any of the other features you talk about?
a) because I'm "complaining" about missing features, without saying how great they arenormen wrote: ↑23 Jun 2018Some questions:antic604 wrote: ↑23 Jun 2018
Way to shut down a good discussion!
How do I prove to you I'm not computer illiterate and/or that I'm not stupid? Do I now need to provide a sample of code and IQ report before I post? Do I really need to explain how "awesome" high-DPI support, multi-clip editing or folder grouping are?
a) Why did you feel like I was talking about you specifically?
b) How did I „shut down“ the discussion? With a good point?
c) Who said they don‘t want „HiDPI“ or any of the other features you talk about?
b) because it assumes that everyone who's "complaining" is computer illiterate and/or stupid and therefore needs to prove they're not before posting
c) who's "they"?
a+b) Well those were general observations, maybe you re-read my post? If you can state your opinion here I can too right? I didn‘t say ANYTHING about what who can say or not, if you don‘t like yourself in the light of my words then grow a pair.
c) Thats what I am asking you, who‘s keeping you from saying „I think Reason should support HiDPI“? Thats all in your head I‘m afraid.
Exactly. It just seems that some people - and I'm not thinking of anyone in particular here - have to make a big stink about making the switch rather than just get on with it. Guess that goes back to what Normen said about thinking they sound smarter (than they are) when bashing stuff.
No, I don't think your post was directed at me personally nor do I feel bad about my posts in light of yours.normen wrote: ↑23 Jun 2018a+b) Well those were general observations, maybe you re-read my post? If you can state your opinion here I can too right? I didn‘t say ANYTHING about what who can say or not, if you don‘t like yourself in the light of my words then grow a pair.
c) Thats what I am asking you, who‘s keeping you from saying „I think Reason should support HiDPI“? Thats all in your head I‘m afraid.
But I have to wonder, what is the reason of your post here?
How does it contribute to the discussion (other than how I already described above)?
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I don’t know why people are complaining about Reason on a Reason-centric forum. Go to Gearslutz.
I make great music that I enjoy in Reason and I’ve used PT, Nuendo/Cubase, and Live in both personal and professional contexts. You CAN do almost everything that most DAWs can do in Reason, but complaining about what you can’t do (or can’t figure out how to do!) in the program seems a waste of energy.
Just like this post.
I make great music that I enjoy in Reason and I’ve used PT, Nuendo/Cubase, and Live in both personal and professional contexts. You CAN do almost everything that most DAWs can do in Reason, but complaining about what you can’t do (or can’t figure out how to do!) in the program seems a waste of energy.
Just like this post.
DAW: Reason 12
SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine
SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!
www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane
SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine
SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!
www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane
Again, read my post again instead of further putting your own biases and insecurities in there. I was talking about what is productive and what unproductive in my opinion. By now you clearly stated on which side of that you see yourself.antic604 wrote: ↑23 Jun 2018No, I don't think your post was directed at me personally nor do I feel bad about my posts in light of yours.normen wrote: ↑23 Jun 2018
a+b) Well those were general observations, maybe you re-read my post? If you can state your opinion here I can too right? I didn‘t say ANYTHING about what who can say or not, if you don‘t like yourself in the light of my words then grow a pair.
c) Thats what I am asking you, who‘s keeping you from saying „I think Reason should support HiDPI“? Thats all in your head I‘m afraid.
But I have to wonder, what is the reason of your post here?
How does it contribute to the discussion (other than how I already described above)?
Reason is pretty dead now. They gonna end up as a VST plugins. I predicted that at least 3 years ago. PH has no potential to develop new GUI and new workflow, so they gonna feed us with new marketing mumbo-jumbo.
Reason as a whole needs a code rewrite to meet the new standards. In my opinions it's impossible.
The rack system is obsolete. Try to work with it in 4K. The rack system slows down the workflow so it needs a rewrite. Impossible. They need to write the new code from the scratch. Impossible.
Reason as a whole needs a code rewrite to meet the new standards. In my opinions it's impossible.
The rack system is obsolete. Try to work with it in 4K. The rack system slows down the workflow so it needs a rewrite. Impossible. They need to write the new code from the scratch. Impossible.
See there is an opinion. Just doing a new software could indeed be an idea for PH, why not? They have great sounding DSP code, maybe somebody with THE idea for the ideal workflow of the 21st century that pleases everybody creates the GUI and Pelle can forever feed us with synthie goodness. I'm not even being sarcastic here.ArcoZ wrote: ↑23 Jun 2018Reason is pretty dead now. They gonna end up as a VST plugins. I predicted that at least 3 years ago. PH has no potential to develop new GUI and new workflow, so they gonna feed us with new marketing mumbo-jumbo.
Reason as a whole needs a code rewrite to meet the new standards. In my opinions it's impossible.
The rack system is obsolete. Try to work with it in 4K. The rack system slows down the workflow so it needs a rewrite. Impossible. They need to write the new code from the scratch. Impossible.
Talking about that I wonder if anyone even has an example for a DAW (or software in general) that just changed their complete workflow at some point? I could maaaayyybe come up with Final Cut Pro X.. Every other software I can think of obviously slowly morphed but the general idea behind the software never changed? Any1?
Last edited by normen on 23 Jun 2018, edited 1 time in total.
But that's what makes the program unique and fun to work with. The rack extensions and workflow are the only reason I even use the DAW in the first place.ArcoZ wrote: ↑23 Jun 2018Reason is pretty dead now. They gonna end up as a VST plugins. I predicted that at least 3 years ago. PH has no potential to develop new GUI and new workflow, so they gonna feed us with new marketing mumbo-jumbo.
Reason as a whole needs a code rewrite to meet the new standards. In my opinions it's impossible.
The rack system is obsolete. Try to work with it in 4K. The rack system slows down the workflow so it needs a rewrite. Impossible. They need to write the new code from the scratch. Impossible.
What do you personally like about Reason that brings you to the forum and such?
Not sure why a re-write is impossible. We have an old and ever evolving piece of software called WINDOWS. In recent years it has gone through major changes - so much so that it looks barely anything like its former self... largely for the better. They did it because the world advances and the platform needed to. So - to say Reason can't change is a little strange, as it has many great features - it just needs to evolve with the times.ArcoZ wrote: ↑23 Jun 2018Reason is pretty dead now. They gonna end up as a VST plugins. I predicted that at least 3 years ago. PH has no potential to develop new GUI and new workflow, so they gonna feed us with new marketing mumbo-jumbo.
Reason as a whole needs a code rewrite to meet the new standards. In my opinions it's impossible.
The rack system is obsolete. Try to work with it in 4K. The rack system slows down the workflow so it needs a rewrite. Impossible. They need to write the new code from the scratch. Impossible.
I would just ask Propellerheads to do a new update sometime soon - where they don't ADD any new instruments or sample libraries or whatever else. Instead... they market the new edition as the next generation Reason - fixing all of the things being discussed here and elsewhere on Reasontalk. To be honest I was hoping that version 10 was the ideal number to do it on... but instead they did very little to the base features.
Check my Soundcloud:
- chimp_spanner
- Posts: 3009
- Joined: 06 Mar 2015
But I'm not sure exactly what people want? The rack is the rack. It's conducive to certain things that other DAWs simply can't do. But I don't hear anyone asking for *those* DAWs to get a rack. Because...why should they? They do what they do well, and Reason does what it does well. I mean I get that they kinda threw their hat into the DAW ring when they added audio, and later VST. So they kiiinda set themselves up to be compared to the likes of Cubase, Logic, Ableton, etc. Some of the criticism is fair. Some, not so much. But ultimately I think if people are buying Reason to just be a VST host and sequence without ever flipping the rack then IMO they're really missing the point, and missing out! I'd hate for PH to change it beyond recognition to appease people who, in reality, should've just bought Cubase (or whatever) instead.ArcoZ wrote: ↑23 Jun 2018Reason is pretty dead now. They gonna end up as a VST plugins. I predicted that at least 3 years ago. PH has no potential to develop new GUI and new workflow, so they gonna feed us with new marketing mumbo-jumbo.
Reason as a whole needs a code rewrite to meet the new standards. In my opinions it's impossible.
The rack system is obsolete. Try to work with it in 4K. The rack system slows down the workflow so it needs a rewrite. Impossible. They need to write the new code from the scratch. Impossible.
Now that's not to say I don't want to see any improvements. I've posted my wishlist many, many times so I won't do it again So I don't wanna sound like I'm just fanboying out my ass and don't see the need for improvements. But I'm kinda excited for R11. They've done the content update. They've been unusually public about the path forward, which I think is great. There's been more hype and buzz around Reason in the last year or so than there has been in the last 10. So I think interesting times are coming.
Of course none of us really know what they're working on at HQ. For all we know they've been working on a re-write in parallel to the existing updates and one day they'll just drop a huge paradigm shift on us...and then everyone will hate it and ask where they can download Reason 10
I'd be all in on having a seperate "Complaints & Criticisms" section of the board. Would be the most popular section no doubt. And that would ensure that all your "everything is unicorns and rainbows" posts would remain untainted by the gloom and doom spewed by the more exasperated Reasoners.jimmyklane wrote: ↑23 Jun 2018I don’t know why people are complaining about Reason on a Reason-centric forum. Go to Gearslutz.
But if that's not gonna happen (and I bet you a ga-jillion dollars it won't, lol) then we will just have to deal with both points of view as if we were living in some crazy, free-thinking society!
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