Drum Sequencer: Opportunity Missed?

This forum is for discussing Rack Extensions. Devs are all welcome to show off their goods.
User avatar
BradfordMoeller
Posts: 42
Joined: 06 Oct 2016

Post 25 May 2018

I was so excited by this, and even getting started with it felt great. And then I put it on top of an instance of Toontrack EZDrummer, and discovered that indeed, it only has 8 assignable drum sounds.

It seems very odd to me that you need 3-4 of these on top of most sampled acoustic kits, *and you even need 2 just for a Kong.

I understand that it is a sleek, simple, powerful tool, but what use is it, and how streamlined is it, when you need several of them for a simple Kong kit?- A simple scroll of up to maybe 32 assignable drum sounds would be so much better.

Does anyone else share my frustration?
:reason:)))

User avatar
ljekio
Posts: 693
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

Post 25 May 2018

You can add more then one drumseq to one instrument.

antic604

Post 25 May 2018

ljekio wrote:
25 May 2018
You can add more then one drumseq to one instrument.
That's what the OP said...

User avatar
Emian
Posts: 678
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 25 May 2018

well, why ALLWAYS add a sequencer that controls 16/32/64 sounds if you only sometimes need 8 (or less...) ? ....


"i might be established, but i'll never be establishement "
- Dave Clarke -www.soundcloud.com/emian

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 1435
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 25 May 2018

I thought I was going to love it, but without any built in humanization (semi-random timing/velocity) settings, it’s basically useless for my purposes. printing the MIDI to a track and using the randomization settings in the F8 tools settings doesn’t do a good job of making patterns sound natural. it’s a shame too...the probabilities and rolls/subdivisions, and ability to easily do polyrhythms are awesome, and it’s super easy to use.

having 16 channels would’ve been nice too, but without 👆🏼👆🏼👆🏼, it’s sort of a moot point, for me. 😔

User avatar
BradfordMoeller
Posts: 42
Joined: 06 Oct 2016

Post 25 May 2018

Emian wrote:
25 May 2018
well, why ALLWAYS add a sequencer that controls 16/32/64 sounds if you only sometimes need 8 (or less...) ? ....
If you were to be able to scroll up or hit a small button on the left side, beyond 8, it would still look & feel great with just 8 or fewer sounds; why only have 8 when many people sometimes (more often) need many more, since it wouldn't take away anything from the design?
:reason:)))

User avatar
O1B
Posts: 1658
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

Post 25 May 2018

+1.
without any built in humanization (semi-random timing/velocity) settings, it’s basically useless for my purposes.
guitfnky wrote:
25 May 2018
I thought I was going to love it, but without any built in humanization (semi-random timing/velocity) settings, it’s basically useless for my purposes. printing the MIDI to a track and using the randomization settings in the F8 tools settings doesn’t do a good job of making patterns sound natural. it’s a shame too...the probabilities and rolls/subdivisions, and ability to easily do polyrhythms are awesome, and it’s super easy to use.

having 16 channels would’ve been nice too, but without 👆🏼👆🏼👆🏼, it’s sort of a moot point, for me. 😔

User avatar
BradfordMoeller
Posts: 42
Joined: 06 Oct 2016

Post 17 Jun 2018

Anyone else wishing for more than 8 slots?- The new Umpf RE is perfect for this, but both would be so much more usable if each had 16 spaces for sounds.
:reason:)))

User avatar
Carly(Poohbear)
Posts: 2401
Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Location: UK

Post 17 Jun 2018

BradfordMoeller wrote:
17 Jun 2018
Anyone else wishing for more than 8 slots?- The new Umpf RE is perfect for this, but both would be so much more usable if each had 16 spaces for sounds.
I just don't get this, it only takes seconds to drag over another Umpf and Drum Seq (more even less time with a Ctrl+d). What am I missing?

User avatar
EnochLight
Posts: 5839
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: your mom

Post 17 Jun 2018

As a reminder: by default installation, all Reason users report their usage statistics to Propellerhead unless you opt out. Propellerhead know exactly how many drum pads most of their users program with.

The fact of the matter is, most people only use 8 pads (or less) to program their drums. It's the 16 pad peeps that make up the minority, very likely. So while we'd all love to have a Drum Sequencer to match Kong or the myriad of other drum instruments, Props tend to go with the streamlined/easy approach for all music making, so it shouldn't surprise us that they designed Drum Sequencer with just 8 pads in mind.

And of course, as many have already pointed out - stack more if you need more. :)
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

danc
Posts: 261
Joined: 14 Oct 2016

Post 17 Jun 2018

My biggest issue it that SOLO and MUTE are not able to be automated. Well - you can... using a technique that Poohbear (see UMPF Club Drums Topic) showed in his video, by creating a Combinator and doing it that way.... but seriously... why is it not native... not being able to manage what drum layers are playing at any one time is absolutely insane. It seriously restricts Drum Sequencer.

I personally think that every RE and VST should give you full control over automating every rotary/button etc. - otherwise I can't bring life to things, which I depend upon to make things sound interesting.
All my music created, produced and mastered in Reason 11 (WIndows) and Studio One.


User avatar
MrFigg
Posts: 3002
Joined: 20 Apr 2018

Post 17 Jun 2018

danc wrote:
17 Jun 2018
My biggest issue it that SOLO and MUTE are not able to be automated. Well - you can... using a technique that Poohbear (see UMPF Club Drums Topic) showed in his video, by creating a Combinator and doing it that way.... but seriously... why is it not native... not being able to manage what drum layers are playing at any one time is absolutely insane. It seriously restricts Drum Sequencer.

I personally think that every RE and VST should give you full control over automating every rotary/button etc. - otherwise I can't bring life to things, which I depend upon to make things sound interesting.
Yep. Mute/ solo automation would make things a whole lot more manageable for me at any rate.

jlgrimes
Posts: 366
Joined: 06 Jun 2017

Post 17 Jun 2018

BradfordMoeller wrote:
25 May 2018
I was so excited by this, and even getting started with it felt great. And then I put it on top of an instance of Toontrack EZDrummer, and discovered that indeed, it only has 8 assignable drum sounds.

It seems very odd to me that you need 3-4 of these on top of most sampled acoustic kits, *and you even need 2 just for a Kong.

I understand that it is a sleek, simple, powerful tool, but what use is it, and how streamlined is it, when you need several of them for a simple Kong kit?- A simple scroll of up to maybe 32 assignable drum sounds would be so much better.

Does anyone else share my frustration?
I don't mind the 8 sounds. I rarely sequence more sounds and adding more lanes just means adding another device. They make it easier with the presets for Kong and Redrum.

The things I wish they would improve:

1. More than 16 steps.

We have evolved since the 808.

2. More than 8 patterns.

Redrum and matrix has more patterns. And since you only have 16 steps, this is more of an issue.

3. A smarter step sequencer.

Ableton Push is cool as it can go through different timings all in one lane. Makes things more streamlined.



It is a good start though, though I would think a 3rd party developer will build on this idea.

User avatar
Carly(Poohbear)
Posts: 2401
Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Location: UK

Post 17 Jun 2018

MrFigg wrote:
17 Jun 2018
danc wrote:
17 Jun 2018
My biggest issue it that SOLO and MUTE are not able to be automated. Well - you can... using a technique that Poohbear (see UMPF Club Drums Topic) showed in his video, by creating a Combinator and doing it that way.... but seriously... why is it not native... not being able to manage what drum layers are playing at any one time is absolutely insane. It seriously restricts Drum Sequencer.

I personally think that every RE and VST should give you full control over automating every rotary/button etc. - otherwise I can't bring life to things, which I depend upon to make things sound interesting.
Yep. Mute/ solo automation would make things a whole lot more manageable for me at any rate.
You don't need to put it into a combinator to add automaton for Mute and Solo.


User avatar
Carly(Poohbear)
Posts: 2401
Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Location: UK

Post 17 Jun 2018

jlgrimes wrote:
17 Jun 2018
BradfordMoeller wrote:
25 May 2018
I was so excited by this, and even getting started with it felt great. And then I put it on top of an instance of Toontrack EZDrummer, and discovered that indeed, it only has 8 assignable drum sounds.

It seems very odd to me that you need 3-4 of these on top of most sampled acoustic kits, *and you even need 2 just for a Kong.

I understand that it is a sleek, simple, powerful tool, but what use is it, and how streamlined is it, when you need several of them for a simple Kong kit?- A simple scroll of up to maybe 32 assignable drum sounds would be so much better.

Does anyone else share my frustration?
I don't mind the 8 sounds. I rarely sequence more sounds and adding more lanes just means adding another device. They make it easier with the presets for Kong and Redrum.

The things I wish they would improve:

1. More than 16 steps.

We have evolved since the 808.

2. More than 8 patterns.

Redrum and matrix has more patterns. And since you only have 16 steps, this is more of an issue.

3. A smarter step sequencer.

Ableton Push is cool as it can go through different timings all in one lane. Makes things more streamlined.



It is a good start though, though I would think a 3rd party developer will build on this idea.
You may find this handy.





PoohBear

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T&T's viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7503909
My Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqCNsA ... p4cQF4j-8A
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Soundcloud Page ....... Nektar Mappings
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

User avatar
MrFigg
Posts: 3002
Joined: 20 Apr 2018

Post 17 Jun 2018

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
17 Jun 2018
MrFigg wrote:
17 Jun 2018


Yep. Mute/ solo automation would make things a whole lot more manageable for me at any rate.
You don't need to put it into a combinator to add automaton for Mute and Solo.

:):):):)

danc
Posts: 261
Joined: 14 Oct 2016

Post 17 Jun 2018

MrFigg wrote:
17 Jun 2018
Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
17 Jun 2018


You don't need to put it into a combinator to add automaton for Mute and Solo.

:):):):)
EXCELLENT FIND: So... why have Propellerhead's decided to HIDE this functionality? I've been with Reason since version one and they've taught me years ago to right click and automate from there. Now... are they expecting me to guess that it can be automated and I have to create a track to find out if it can. Not very glad they think HIDDEN features are the way to go! Seems like a backward step to me.
All my music created, produced and mastered in Reason 11 (WIndows) and Studio One.


User avatar
BradfordMoeller
Posts: 42
Joined: 06 Oct 2016

Post 17 Jun 2018

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
17 Jun 2018
BradfordMoeller wrote:
17 Jun 2018
Anyone else wishing for more than 8 slots?- The new Umpf RE is perfect for this, but both would be so much more usable if each had 16 spaces for sounds.
I just don't get this, it only takes seconds to drag over another Umpf and Drum Seq (more even less time with a Ctrl+d). What am I missing?
For me it is mostly an issue of CPU/RAM/workflow efficiency & taking up a lot of visual space.

EnochLight wrote:
17 Jun 2018
As a reminder: by default installation, all Reason users report their usage statistics to Propellerhead unless you opt out. Propellerhead know exactly how many drum pads most of their users program with.

The fact of the matter is, most people only use 8 pads (or less) to program their drums. It's the 16 pad peeps that make up the minority, very likely. So while we'd all love to have a Drum Sequencer to match Kong or the myriad of other drum instruments, Props tend to go with the streamlined/easy approach for all music making, so it shouldn't surprise us that they designed Drum Sequencer with just 8 pads in mind.

And of course, as many have already pointed out - stack more if you need more. :)
Probably the best argument to my case! I just feel that it would be such an out-of-the-way addition to be able to click/scroll for additional hits. I would be surprised if the majority uses such a small drum kit on the regular, but that's a great point & you very well may be right.
:reason:)))

User avatar
rcbuse
Posts: 893
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: SR388

Post 17 Jun 2018

danc wrote:
17 Jun 2018
EXCELLENT FIND: So... why have Propellerhead's decided to HIDE this functionality? I've been with Reason since version one and they've taught me years ago to right click and automate from there. Now... are they expecting me to guess that it can be automated and I have to create a track to find out if it can. Not very glad they think HIDDEN features are the way to go! Seems like a backward step to me.
I'm not sure about calling it hidden. The drop down menu to access automation parameters has been there since Reason 5. What has changed is custom displays. Many devices use these custom displays for widgets because they allow for more flexibility. Since these custom displays allows editing of multiple parameters at the same time, there isn't any right-click/Alt-click to automate because there could be 10s or 100s of parameters attached to a single display item.

User avatar
wireless
Posts: 95
Joined: 14 Apr 2017

Post 17 Jun 2018

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
17 Jun 2018
jlgrimes wrote:
17 Jun 2018


I don't mind the 8 sounds. I rarely sequence more sounds and adding more lanes just means adding another device. They make it easier with the presets for Kong and Redrum.

The things I wish they would improve:

1. More than 16 steps.

We have evolved since the 808.

2. More than 8 patterns.

Redrum and matrix has more patterns. And since you only have 16 steps, this is more of an issue.

3. A smarter step sequencer.

Ableton Push is cool as it can go through different timings all in one lane. Makes things more streamlined.



It is a good start though, though I would think a 3rd party developer will build on this idea.
You may find this handy.





PoohBear

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T&T's viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7503909
My Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqCNsA ... p4cQF4j-8A
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Soundcloud Page ....... Nektar Mappings
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well done Poohbear. Well explained and invaluable! Thanks

User avatar
EnochLight
Posts: 5839
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: your mom

Post 17 Jun 2018

rcbuse wrote:
17 Jun 2018
danc wrote:
17 Jun 2018
EXCELLENT FIND: So... why have Propellerhead's decided to HIDE this functionality? I've been with Reason since version one and they've taught me years ago to right click and automate from there. Now... are they expecting me to guess that it can be automated and I have to create a track to find out if it can. Not very glad they think HIDDEN features are the way to go! Seems like a backward step to me.
I'm not sure about calling it hidden. The drop down menu to access automation parameters has been there since Reason 5. What has changed is custom displays. Many devices use these custom displays for widgets because they allow for more flexibility. Since these custom displays allows editing of multiple parameters at the same time, there isn't any right-click/Alt-click to automate because there could be 10s or 100s of parameters attached to a single display item.
Exactly. Automation drop down menu has been accessed via the main sequencer for 8 years and 5 versions. Not hidden at all! I'm also willing to wager that it was done way back then to "prepare" for the inevitable scenario that rcbuse illustrated above.

Reason 4:
R4_seq.jpg
Reason 5:
R5_seq.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

electrofux
Posts: 658
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

Post 18 Jun 2018

First thing i do when i test a RE is getting the remote info from the menu to see what is remotable and thus automatable.

This RE sadly was added to the bad ones in terms of remotability.

User avatar
motuscott
Posts: 1620
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: the new york

Post 19 Jun 2018

Here’s my slightly off topic request: in the probability section of the note editing row, I would like to be able to group notes. If in the repeat section if you chose 3/2 or 3/4 and set each of those steps to the same probability percentage, the separate notes still fire independently whereas I would prefer the entire triplet to act as one unit. Also grouping just regular notes to appear or disappear together would be cool.
Sometimes a cigar is just a synth that's on fire

K_R33Z3
Posts: 11
Joined: 01 Oct 2018

Post 25 Oct 2018

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
17 Jun 2018
jlgrimes wrote:
17 Jun 2018


I don't mind the 8 sounds. I rarely sequence more sounds and adding more lanes just means adding another device. They make it easier with the presets for Kong and Redrum.

The things I wish they would improve:

1. More than 16 steps.

We have evolved since the 808.

2. More than 8 patterns.

Redrum and matrix has more patterns. And since you only have 16 steps, this is more of an issue.

3. A smarter step sequencer.

Ableton Push is cool as it can go through different timings all in one lane. Makes things more streamlined.



It is a good start though, though I would think a 3rd party developer will build on this idea.
You may find this handy.





PoohBear

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T&T's viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7503909
My Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqCNsA ... p4cQF4j-8A
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Soundcloud Page ....... Nektar Mappings
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THANKS FOR SHARING THIS! I never knew you could program the drum sequencer using combinaor/thor... I tried this last night, only difference is I had it programming Redrum pattern sequencer. It was great to know I could use this feature in the future to really spice up drum patterns while making beats!

User avatar
MrFigg
Posts: 3002
Joined: 20 Apr 2018

Post 25 Oct 2018

I still wish I could automate the Alter, Random and Shift buttons. But I can’t. Damnit!!!

  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests