Waves V10 Is Out - A Public Service Announcement

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hurricane
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11 Jun 2018

I successfully updated all but 2 of my Waves plugins to version 10 today. The 2 that couldn't be updated had an expired WUP. No biggie, as I could still use the "old" V9 plugins. This required a little bit of work because after the V10 update process, you have to go download the V9 offline installer and re-install those V9 plugins that couldn't be updated to V10. But this goes to show any of you who are confused about the WUP, that you don't have to pay to continue using your "old" plugins.

Annoying thing when it comes to Reason - you have to go through this again:
wavesohnoes.png
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tibah
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11 Jun 2018

I love taking pictures of my VSTs...

;)

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dvdrtldg
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11 Jun 2018

I've updated everything to v10 but now can't see my Waves plugins in Reason (including the one remaining v9 plugin). Any idea what might be the problem? I followed instructions on the Waves site to the letter, and there's no helpful info under FAQs or Troubleshooting

EDIT: Ah, OK, restarted computer and everything's there. But yeah, eeeeeeeeeeverything has to be screenshotted again

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hurricane
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11 Jun 2018

dvdrtldg wrote:
11 Jun 2018
But yeah, eeeeeeeeeeverything has to be screenshotted again
Or you could follow my tip here: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=7505213

Also didn't realize this V10 update gave me 2 new free plugins - Electric Piano 80 and Eddie Kramer Drum Channel. Really liking EP80.
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strangers
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11 Jun 2018

I only have a small handful of Waves plugins that I bought over the past year. I've known about WUP but there's so much misleading info on the ol' world wide that I'm not sure what is true. What is the reason and/or advantage to updating to 10? I currently can still use my version 9 plugins as usual without having to do anything different. Waves own website doesn't really outline the advantage of upgrading to version 10. I'm only seeing minor bug fixes, if that.

kitekrazy
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11 Jun 2018

Just a heads up that Melda plugins have lifetime updates. Also I've had T-Racks individual plugins that were updated to V5. I don't like Waves licensing since they are only a single license. Most developers allow at least 2 machines. They are great plugins but most of my recent Waves purchases haven been duplicate licenses.

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dvdrtldg
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11 Jun 2018

No need to update unless your Waves plugin is so old that it's no longer supported by your DAW. As you say, there are just a few minor bug fixes here, so no need to bother really. I only updated the plugins of mine that were less than a year old (i.e. the ones I could update for free)

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hurricane
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11 Jun 2018

I'm no expert, but If you have an active WUP plan, then you would want to upgrade all your Waves plugins before it expires, to take advantage of any future updates they'll be making to the V10 set. You stay at V9, your WUP expires, they update the GUIs on all Waves plugins, then you're stuck at V9 and will have to pay for the new GUIs.

I have 2 plugins with expired WUPS - IR1 Reverb and Kramer Tape. These will remain at V9 and will work just like they always have under my current system. As long as I keep this system unchanged, they'll work indefinitely. All my other Waves plugs are now V10 (some got bug fixes, all have been "future proofed") so now say I upgrade to OS X Mojave and my V9 plugins won't work under that OS, then I'll either have to pay to have the V9 plugins updated to V10 or just not use them. Meanwhile my V10 updates will work just fine.
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strangers
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11 Jun 2018

Makes a bit more sense now. Just finished my updates now. I guess I get too click happy when making purchases since I didn't realize until now that WUP is free for a year for new purchases. All of my Waves plugins were still within the year so upgrading to version 10 was no cost and only took a few minutes. It's really not as bad as it's made out to be then. I'm guessing the real fuss people seem to make is simply extending WUP an additional year every year?

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hurricane
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12 Jun 2018

strangers wrote:
11 Jun 2018
I'm guessing the real fuss people seem to make is simply extending WUP an additional year every year?
The fuss is made by the people who have no idea how the WUP works. Those are the same people that complain about iLok, Gobbler, Native Access, Elicensers, and VST plugins being too much trouble, lol.

I'll make a fuss come version 11, with my expired WUP, and when I may have to renew all my Waves plugins and have to pay $225 to update them all.
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groggy1
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12 Jun 2018

I guess the upgrade decision is easy:
--If your WUP is active, upgrade
--If your WUP is NOT active, and your v9 plugins all work in your daw, DON'T upgrade
--If your WUP is NOT active, and your v9 plugins stop working in your daw, pay for WUP and upgrade

But, I gotta say, it's weird that their big sell on v10 is "upgrade since we're doing a lot of work to keep-up with DAWs". I think they should go for the carrot instead of the stick (not just a few minor plugins)

Unknown
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29 Jul 2018

I really wish I’d read up on this first., anyone else lost access to their Waves plugins because of the update plan?

I have just moved house so I haven’t been doing much music, I turn on Reason yesterday and I get a missing plugin for the Grand Rhapsody. After a bit of confusion I find I have no Waves VST’s at all. Noting in the VST directory so I search and find the Waves plugins and create a new link. Then I get told I have no license.

Long story short, Waves automatically deleted all of my V9 and updated to V10, even though I only have V9 licenses. I can’t download V9 versions (unless there is a secret route) so I have now lost access to them unless I pay for the update plan.

It seems you have to be savvy or you are effectively on a annual subscription plan. Despite being told in emails that I can continue to use them, Waves software seems to decide otherwise.

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NekujaK
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29 Jul 2018

Unknown wrote:
29 Jul 2018
Long story short, Waves automatically deleted all of my V9 and updated to V10, even though I only have V9 licenses. I can’t download V9 versions (unless there is a secret route) so I have now lost access to them unless I pay for the update plan.

It seems you have to be savvy or you are effectively on a annual subscription plan. Despite being told in emails that I can continue to use them, Waves software seems to decide otherwise.
Waves Central automatically updates itself to v10 and only installs v10 plugins. That's why you're not seeing your v9 plugins any more. Fortunately, Waves provides a separate offline installer that installs the v9 plugins. You can find more information and links to the installer here:
https://www.waves.com/support/how-to-in ... aves-v9-92

Good luck!
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joeyluck
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29 Jul 2018

I lucked out I guess having just now bought some Waves plugins after the V10 release. I'll have to read up on the update plans. That's unfortunate they would charge people for compatibility updates vs. feature updates. I guess since they have a million plugins, it's how they afford to do it?

Slightly off topic question...

Is there anything special going on in the various mono version plugins that can't be achieved outside of the plugin? And why not just a switch vs. a separate plugin? I have mono-to-mono versions, mono-to-stereo versions, stereo versions, lite versions, version 2's, etc.

jimmyklane
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29 Jul 2018

tibah wrote:
11 Jun 2018
I love taking pictures of my VSTs...

;)
I agree! The screenshot feature is one of the coolest parts about Reason’s VST integration
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strangers
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29 Jul 2018

joeyluck wrote:
29 Jul 2018
Slightly off topic question...

Is there anything special going on in the various mono version plugins that can't be achieved outside of the plugin? And why not just a switch vs. a separate plugin? I have mono-to-mono versions, mono-to-stereo versions, stereo versions, lite versions, version 2's, etc.
I've been wondering the same thing for a while now. It's a little annoying to have several options of the exact same plugin to clog up the list. A toggle switch would be ideal to cut down on clutter.

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joeyluck
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29 Jul 2018

strangers wrote:
29 Jul 2018
joeyluck wrote:
29 Jul 2018
Slightly off topic question...

Is there anything special going on in the various mono version plugins that can't be achieved outside of the plugin? And why not just a switch vs. a separate plugin? I have mono-to-mono versions, mono-to-stereo versions, stereo versions, lite versions, version 2's, etc.
I've been wondering the same thing for a while now. It's a little annoying to have several options of the exact same plugin to clog up the list. A toggle switch would be ideal to cut down on clutter.
Yeah for now I'm just deactivating the others.

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NekujaK
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29 Jul 2018

joeyluck wrote:
29 Jul 2018
Is there anything special going on in the various mono version plugins that can't be achieved outside of the plugin? And why not just a switch vs. a separate plugin? I have mono-to-mono versions, mono-to-stereo versions, stereo versions, lite versions, version 2's, etc.
That's a good question. I read in some forum that the stereo versions use twice the processing power. That sort of makes sense, but I've never seen it confirmed. The more important question, however, is do the mono and stereo versions affect the sound differently?

I did a simple test with a Subtractor (mono) and the Waves H-Delay plugin. Basically, I found no difference in the effect when using the Stereo or Mono/Stereo plugins. Reason auto-routes both stereo outs from the plugins, converting the track to stereo. When applying the mono H-Delay, presets that rely on stereo processing (like Ping Pong delay) are not available and can't be achieved, and the track remains mono. That all makes sense.

But here's where you need to be careful. In the case of a mono track, the above is only true for stereo plugins IF the stereo Waves plugin is the last or only plugin in the chain, or is the first plugin inserted. So for example, If my signal chain is:

Subtractor -> Valhala Vintage Verb

Reason routes both stereo outs from the reverb and converts the track to stereo, as expected. If I then insert a stereo H-Delay before the reverb:

Subtractor -> H-Delay -> Valhala

Even though I inserted a stereo Waves plugin, Reason only auto-routes the left output from the H-Delay, which means I'll only hear half my Ping Pong. This can be fixed by connecting the right output manually, so if you're going to use stereo effects on a mono track, it makes sense to always double-check the cabling.

The above is a simple and obvious example, but other effects like compressors, EQs, and reverbs could have unexpected differences when only the left channel is fed to a stereo version. Don't know for sure.

On a different note... I was hoping the v10 Waves plugins would finally support sidechain inputs in Reason, but unfortunately they don't. I suppose that's on Reason's end to fix.
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hurricane
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29 Jul 2018

So according to Waves:

"WaveShell technology enables us to split Waves processors into smaller plugins, which we call components. Having a choice of components for a particular processor gives you the flexibility to choose the configuration best suited to your material.'

I appreciate the thought behind that, but sometimes it's a little too much, like in the case of Abbey Road Reel ADT, where you are faced with numerous components for your "convenience":

ADT Mono
ADT Mono-to-Stereo
ADT Stereo

ADT 2V Mono-to-Stereo. --- These 2V versions are the same as above, except that they give you a second ADT modulation signal to generate a richer doubling effect, says the manual
ADT 2V Stereo

ADT Live Mono
ADT Live Mono-to-Stereo
ADT Live Stereo ----------------- And these are just lower latency versions of the above, intended for live performance.
ADT Live 2V Mono-to-Stereo
ADT Live 2V Stereo

It would sure be a hell of a lot more convenient to have everything in one master plugin.

And while my initial move was to disable all Waves plugins except for the Stereo versions, I've since realized that there are real differences to their plugins, some of which could actually aid you musically. Like for instance, let's just look at the bare bones mono version of Reel ADT:


Mono in, mono out, looks very simple and clean.

reel m.png
reel m.png (665.72 KiB) Viewed 5855 times


Now look at the mono to stereo and stereo versions, note the extra channel pan and drive controls, but also the circled bit on the stereo version, which lets you select your input:


reel-ms-s.jpg
reel-ms-s.jpg (387.34 KiB) Viewed 5855 times


And now the 2v version which is a double ADT:


reel 2vs.png
reel 2vs.png (803.17 KiB) Viewed 5855 times


So while it is a little annoying and unmanageable (particularly in Reason) I guess I'm ok with these different component versions of their plugins, but still would welcome an all-in-one.
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NekujaK
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29 Jul 2018

BTW, the SSL and Neve channel strips from Plugin Alliance/Brainworx, detect the orientation of the target track and automatically instantiate as mono or stereo accordingly - so it's not out of the realm of possibility for Waves to implement something like this. However - and this should come as no surprise given Reason's quirky VST integration - in Reason, these channel strips always load as stereo, even on mono tracks :(
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joeyluck
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29 Jul 2018

hurricane wrote:
29 Jul 2018
So according to Waves:

"WaveShell technology enables us to split Waves processors into smaller plugins, which we call components. Having a choice of components for a particular processor gives you the flexibility to choose the configuration best suited to your material.'

I appreciate the thought behind that, but sometimes it's a little too much, like in the case of Abbey Road Reel ADT, where you are faced with numerous components for your "convenience":

ADT Mono
ADT Mono-to-Stereo
ADT Stereo

ADT 2V Mono-to-Stereo. --- These 2V versions are the same as above, except that they give you a second ADT modulation signal to generate a richer doubling effect, says the manual
ADT 2V Stereo

ADT Live Mono
ADT Live Mono-to-Stereo
ADT Live Stereo ----------------- And these are just lower latency versions of the above, intended for live performance.
ADT Live 2V Mono-to-Stereo
ADT Live 2V Stereo

It would sure be a hell of a lot more convenient to have everything in one master plugin.

And while my initial move was to disable all Waves plugins except for the Stereo versions, I've since realized that there are real differences to their plugins, some of which could actually aid you musically. Like for instance, let's just look at the bare bones mono version of Reel ADT:


Mono in, mono out, looks very simple and clean.


reel m.png



Now look at the mono to stereo and stereo versions, note the extra channel pan and drive controls, but also the circled bit on the stereo version, which lets you select your input:



reel-ms-s.jpg



And now the 2v version which is a double ADT:



reel 2vs.png



So while it is a little annoying and unmanageable (particularly in Reason) I guess I'm ok with these different component versions of their plugins, but still would welcome an all-in-one.
Gotcha. Yeah everything in one would certainly be more convenient in several ways. If you are working on something and you get it close to how you would like it to sound, only to realize you probably should have been using a different version, you sort of have to start over... versus just being able to flip a switch. I say 'sort of' because I did check some of them, and you can at least save and load patches from one version into others, including Reel ADT2V.

And I would imagine them having to maintain all these separate components of their hundreds of plugins, doesn't necessarily make it easier for them...

Even if not a switch in the sense that many of us would think, perhaps just an option to actually switch the versions while maintaining settings? Such as a drop-down that says 'Switch to... Mono-to-Stereo.' It would effectively work the same for the user in the end.

I wonder if this is something that StudioRack can manage? I downloaded it, but haven't done much with it. I was only hoping it might help run the plugins more efficiently CPU-wise inside Reason (like some other wrappers have reportedly done). Workflow-wise, it's certainly tidier in terms of managing Waves plugins, but breaks my workflow otherwise. Already having to open a window to edit a plugin, I'm not too keep on having to do that twice to get to something.

I wonder if this is a feature suggestion they could implement: In-plugin, version (component) switching?

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tobypearce
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30 Jul 2018

Slightly off topic, but just looking at their new Abbey Roads Chamber plugin.
When I was watching the video about how they made it https://www.waves.com/plugins/abbey-roa ... ers-plugin
I noticed them basically getting the room back in shape for this - it looked like a restoration project. They mentioned being able to get their hands on one of the Altec speakers of the type they originally used in the Chamber.

All this history made me wonder whether Abbey Roads themselves - which is still very much an active recoding venue - actually still use the Chamber as a part of their production? It looked like they didn't. If Abbey Roads have been getting by just fine without the sound of that Chamber - presumably by using a more modern reverb for all their productions nowadays, it made me wonder what on earth this plugin is actually for, other than as some kind of heritage project.
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NekujaK
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30 Jul 2018

tobypearce wrote:
30 Jul 2018
If Abbey Roads have been getting by just fine without the sound of that Chamber - presumably by using a more modern reverb for all their productions nowadays, it made me wonder what on earth this plugin is actually for, other than as some kind of heritage project.
A large portion of the music production community is obsessed with gear from 50 years ago, because apparently no technical audio advances have been made since 1970 :roll: That, and all the vintage plugins are so darn pretty :D No really... they are. And I'm a sucker for them as much as the next guy.
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hurricane
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30 Jul 2018

joeyluck wrote:
29 Jul 2018
I wonder if this is something that StudioRack can manage? I downloaded it, but haven't done much with it. I was only hoping it might help run the plugins more efficiently CPU-wise inside Reason (like some other wrappers have reportedly done). Workflow-wise, it's certainly tidier in terms of managing Waves plugins, but breaks my workflow otherwise. Already having to open a window to edit a plugin, I'm not too keep on having to do that twice to get to something.
Using studiorack is like second nature for me right now - in Reason. I really don't use it in Logic even though my Waves plugin list is extremely long. Still, it's more manageable than the gigantic Waves list in Reason. I'd welcome an option in Reason to do without the plugin pictures and just have a text list.

Studiorack is very handy - especially if you have more than I'd say, 15 Waves plugins. It's like a special Waves Combinator. I don't believe it has any CPU advantages though. Looks like it loads the straight mono and stereo version components, so it's slightly cleaner since the mono to stereo components of each plugin are skipped.

And - I swear Reason loads faster having the Waveshells disabled.


ws.png
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joeyluck
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30 Jul 2018

hurricane wrote:
30 Jul 2018
joeyluck wrote:
29 Jul 2018
I wonder if this is something that StudioRack can manage? I downloaded it, but haven't done much with it. I was only hoping it might help run the plugins more efficiently CPU-wise inside Reason (like some other wrappers have reportedly done). Workflow-wise, it's certainly tidier in terms of managing Waves plugins, but breaks my workflow otherwise. Already having to open a window to edit a plugin, I'm not too keep on having to do that twice to get to something.
Using studiorack is like second nature for me right now - in Reason. I really don't use it in Logic even though my Waves plugin list is extremely long. Still, it's more manageable than the gigantic Waves list in Reason. I'd welcome an option in Reason to do without the plugin pictures and just have a text list.

Studiorack is very handy - especially if you have more than I'd say, 15 Waves plugins. It's like a special Waves Combinator. I don't believe it has any CPU advantages though. Looks like it loads the straight mono and stereo version components, so it's slightly cleaner since the mono to stereo components of each plugin are skipped.

And - I swear Reason loads faster having the Waveshells disabled.



ws.png
Hmmm... I didn't actually try disabling the Waveshells. I'll see what that does. Although, I suppose I have much less of those than you, since I only have the Abbey Road bundle. I don't have a big issue with Reason loading time.

I actually looked into the StudioRack further, only to find that it might create more of a challenge when deciding between mono, stereo, etc... As you mention, it doesn't give you the various choices of the plugins, since you've made the routing choice with the version of StudioRack you choose to load (mono/stereo). I guess if you want to change it, perhaps it will still save a load into other versions of StudioRack. But again, why not a switch for that as well?

And what if I want an effect inside StudioRack to be mono-to-mono and the next to be mono-to-stereo and the following one to be stereo-to-stereo. Is that possible?

I finally heard back from Waves about a request for a lock button on the Chambers mix control. They simply said they would pass it along... I might reply and add the request for easier component switching. I'm sure they get that request plenty, but I'll try anyways.

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