You seem to be 100% certain its the others fault?
TIDAL accused of deliberately faking Kanye West and Beyoncé streaming numbers
I couldn't disagree more. Like 180 degrees at 180 mph.
You also said, paraphrasing, if there's no audience then it's too much like work.
Quite the opposite. If you're only making music for someone else (ie for a paycheck, for positive feedback, for likes)... that's practically the definition of work.
If you make music you like because you're passionate about it.. that's the opposite of work. That's called a hobby, a passion, etc.
If my music finds an audience one day, cool. If not, it doesn't change my enjoyment of what I do. It could elevate it, sure. But it's not even close to why I do what I do.
I definitely agree to what you say but I guess his initial statement is more along the lines of "nothing is fulfilling if you can't share it". But yeah, then he overthought thatsublunar wrote: ↑16 May 2018I couldn't disagree more. Like 180 degrees at 180 mph.
You said, paraphrasing, if there's no audience then it's too much like work.
Quite the opposite. If you're only making music for someone else (ie for a paycheck, for positive feedback, for likes)... that's practically the definition of work.
If you make music you like because you're passionate about it.. that's the opposite of work. That's called a hobby, a passion, etc.
If my music finds an audience one day, cool. If not, it doesn't change my enjoyment of what I do. It could elevate it, sure. But it's not even close to why I do what I do.
Ok I definitely understand that. If my music never had an audience, that would be.. depressing.
But when I'm in my studio, the only thing I'm thinking about is bringing to life the weird sounds in my head and creating something from hazy ideas and warped brainwaves.
The end goal is to share it, to release it into the wild and let it be my legacy, my contribution to the universe. If I find I'm not alone in my musical opinions, then together we shall get down to the funky sounds and my songs will live on eternally even after I'm dead.
Or.. nobody listens to it and it dies with me. Simultaneously yet separate and alone. Forever.
Yep, 100% agree that you should do what YOU like and not think about "what the audience would want".sublunar wrote: ↑16 May 2018Ok I definitely understand that. If my music never had an audience, that would be.. depressing.
But when I'm in my studio, the only thing I'm thinking about is bringing to life the weird sounds in my head and creating something from hazy ideas and warped brainwaves.
The end goal is to share it, to release it into the wild and let it be my legacy, my contribution to the universe. If I find I'm not alone in my musical opinions, then together we shall get down to the funky sounds and my songs will live on eternally even after I'm dead.
Or.. nobody listens to it and it dies with me. Simultaneously yet separate and alone. Forever.
Theres a strange twist even in situations where you actually write in a certain style "because of the audience" you should actually write what you like. Say doing a country song when you're in a country band. I mean if you'd pull out a Moog wall on that concert and go on a 20 minute noise rampage I don't think anyone in the room would 100% enjoy the art - including you But you will be able to make a country song THEY can enjoy that you 100% enjoy as well.
Edit: Thats a lot of 100%
How about you ask something like: "What exactly do you mean by 'how management works'? How do you see it?"
My answer to that is: It could be that I'm using the wrong words, but I said earlier, I clearly have communication problems (not just because of; but instead 'also' due to English being only my 3rd language - but in general, too). That only makes networking more difficult. I also get stuck with marketing/promotion, and managing and audio career myself. I simply freeze down and don't know what to do next, even if I read tons of journals about it. (I'm also not willing to falsely befriend or use anyone so I can climb higher on their back.) - Getting a manager would be nice, but problem 1: $$$ problem 2: fear of finding the wrong manager.
See? I can't be my own manager. If you mean by "others", 'Me, Myself, and I' - then sure, it's those 'others' "fault" (a.k.a. my own). Is some sort of unknown communication retardation, probable ADD, really my own fault, though? Though my main problem is being secretly overly empathetic, which certainly is bad for business. You gotta do it like in that Zuckerberg documentary where they show the man nicely walking up to, picking up and breaking his partner/employee's laptop, and yelling at the other one like crazy (demanding something ~ I don't remember anymore) - and they said, he walks through anyone in order to achieve what he wants. - I find that stomach twisting, and I'm not capable of doing that.
...and again, why not ask something like "Could you please tell a little more about why you don't enjoy making music for nobody?"sublunar wrote: ↑16 May 2018I couldn't disagree more. Like 180 degrees at 180 mph.
You also said, paraphrasing, if there's no audience then it's too much like work.
Quite the opposite. If you're only making music for someone else (ie for a paycheck, for positive feedback, for likes)... that's practically the definition of work.
If you make music you like because you're passionate about it.. that's the opposite of work. That's called a hobby, a passion, etc.
If my music finds an audience one day, cool. If not, it doesn't change my enjoyment of what I do. It could elevate it, sure. But it's not even close to why I do what I do.
Well, you sort of answered that yourself, but I also answered that question, saying that I prepared myself in the fields of Writing Lyrics, Composing, Performing, Recording, Sound Creation from scratch, Sound Design, Audio editing, Song Arranging, Mixing, Pre-Mastering, Mastering, etc.
How many people dedicate themselves for all of these fields day and night, so they can deliver exactly what they or others want, from start to finish? It very much is breaking me down, realizing that I learned all for nothing, cause success vastly depends on communication, networking, and lots of manipulation; and not on what freaking do-it-all music master you make out of yourself.
If I want to toy around, sure, then I sit down and beat the keys on my keyboards. But finishing a song for practically nobody, is not interesting.
Not exactly; more like, not rewarding.normen wrote: ↑16 May 2018I definitely agree to what you say but I guess his initial statement is more along the lines of "nothing is fulfilling if you can't share it". But yeah, then he overthought thatsublunar wrote: ↑16 May 2018
I couldn't disagree more. Like 180 degrees at 180 mph.
You said, paraphrasing, if there's no audience then it's too much like work.
Quite the opposite. If you're only making music for someone else (ie for a paycheck, for positive feedback, for likes)... that's practically the definition of work.
If you make music you like because you're passionate about it.. that's the opposite of work. That's called a hobby, a passion, etc.
If my music finds an audience one day, cool. If not, it doesn't change my enjoyment of what I do. It could elevate it, sure. But it's not even close to why I do what I do.
There probably is a reason why you don't do mastering just for free and for fun and choose some simple day job. It's easy to laugh people out when you're safely established. I will never-ever do that. Likewise I would never humiliate clients behind their backs.
- EnochLight
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Perhaps you should ask yourself, "am I nobody"? If you don't do art for the love of the art, then it's just work. So I can see your point. Then again, if you don't love your work - perhaps it's time to find a new profession?
Perhaps I'm biased, because music is not my primary profession. I do get tremendous enjoyment out of doing it, though, and frankly - I'm my biggest fan. If people don't enjoy listening to their own music, then things can be quite different.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite | Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD
Sorry, first you complain how indie labels sign only people with exposure and then you complain about "how management works" so I had to assume you are talking about you being rejected by some management.RobC wrote: ↑17 May 2018How about you ask something like: "What exactly do you mean by 'how management works'? How do you see it?"
My answer to that is: It could be that I'm using the wrong words, but I said earlier, I clearly have communication problems (not just because of; but instead 'also' due to English being only my 3rd language - but in general, too). That only makes networking more difficult. I also get stuck with marketing/promotion, and managing and audio career myself. I simply freeze down and don't know what to do next, even if I read tons of journals about it. (I'm also not willing to falsely befriend or use anyone so I can climb higher on their back.) - Getting a manager would be nice, but problem 1: $$$ problem 2: fear of finding the wrong manager.
See? I can't be my own manager. If you mean by "others", 'Me, Myself, and I' - then sure, it's those 'others' "fault" (a.k.a. my own). Is some sort of unknown communication retardation, probable ADD, really my own fault, though? Though my main problem is being secretly overly empathetic, which certainly is bad for business. You gotta do it like in that Zuckerberg documentary where they show the man nicely walking up to, picking up and breaking his partner/employee's laptop, and yelling at the other one like crazy (demanding something ~ I don't remember anymore) - and they said, he walks through anyone in order to achieve what he wants. - I find that stomach twisting, and I'm not capable of doing that.
Maybe that is your problem. Talk about the actual things happening, don't meta everything, just do a few things and THEN try to understand what just happened. Just extrapolating in your mind and then seeing that you took a left turn very early in your calculations when getting to the real world is just boring after a while
Personally, I got the best ideas, when I asked people directly what they think. It's good to take up and adapt to what I agree with, and like. That's why I also check out modern (or from any time) music, and grab and build-in what I find great sounding.normen wrote: ↑16 May 2018Yep, 100% agree that you should do what YOU like and not think about "what the audience would want".sublunar wrote: ↑16 May 2018
Ok I definitely understand that. If my music never had an audience, that would be.. depressing.
But when I'm in my studio, the only thing I'm thinking about is bringing to life the weird sounds in my head and creating something from hazy ideas and warped brainwaves.
The end goal is to share it, to release it into the wild and let it be my legacy, my contribution to the universe. If I find I'm not alone in my musical opinions, then together we shall get down to the funky sounds and my songs will live on eternally even after I'm dead.
Or.. nobody listens to it and it dies with me. Simultaneously yet separate and alone. Forever.
Theres a strange twist even in situations where you actually write in a certain style "because of the audience" you should actually write what you like. Say doing a country song when you're in a country band. I mean if you'd pull out a Moog wall on that concert and go on a 20 minute noise rampage I don't think anyone in the room would 100% enjoy the art - including you But you will be able to make a country song THEY can enjoy that you 100% enjoy as well.
Edit: Thats a lot of 100%
Too bad exorcists work for *free*. They would have made a fortune in the music business industry. Tortured souls abound.
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I pretty much am one, yes. Let me put it this way: I don't want to be a starving artist.EnochLight wrote: ↑17 May 2018Perhaps you should ask yourself, "am I nobody"? If you don't do art for the love of the art, then it's just work. So I can see your point. Then again, if you don't love your work - perhaps it's time to find a new profession?
Perhaps I'm biased, because music is not my primary profession. I do get tremendous enjoyment out of doing it, though, and frankly - I'm my biggest fan. If people don't enjoy listening to their own music, then things can be quite different.
There was a re-run of that ancient show, Colombo - one of the villain told Colombo, if he has no talent, become a critic! - Now, I have no manager's talent, but I know music inside and out. ...and while I have probably the most empathetic personality type, when my kind is desperate (and how easy that is to achieve), we can be the most brutally honest critics, you've ever seen. Even a psychopath would shit itself - though the difference here is that what we say is true and constructive ~ though it makes people lose their shit for sure.
It's fun though, so maybe I should do that! Maybe I will...
...but I have this thought: if I mastered all these smaller music professions, it would be such a damn shame to just drop it all.
"Assume nothing, question everything!" - Said Alfred Hedgehog's (yes xD) grandfather. (Absolutely show The Mysteries of Alfred Hedgehog to your children! - Completely family friendly, good and clever ~ that's why it died after 1 season. \o/ Logic.)normen wrote: ↑17 May 2018Sorry, first you complain how indie labels sign only people with exposure and then you complain about "how management works" so I had to assume you are talking about you being rejected by some management.RobC wrote: ↑17 May 2018
How about you ask something like: "What exactly do you mean by 'how management works'? How do you see it?"
My answer to that is: It could be that I'm using the wrong words, but I said earlier, I clearly have communication problems (not just because of; but instead 'also' due to English being only my 3rd language - but in general, too). That only makes networking more difficult. I also get stuck with marketing/promotion, and managing and audio career myself. I simply freeze down and don't know what to do next, even if I read tons of journals about it. (I'm also not willing to falsely befriend or use anyone so I can climb higher on their back.) - Getting a manager would be nice, but problem 1: $$$ problem 2: fear of finding the wrong manager.
See? I can't be my own manager. If you mean by "others", 'Me, Myself, and I' - then sure, it's those 'others' "fault" (a.k.a. my own). Is some sort of unknown communication retardation, probable ADD, really my own fault, though? Though my main problem is being secretly overly empathetic, which certainly is bad for business. You gotta do it like in that Zuckerberg documentary where they show the man nicely walking up to, picking up and breaking his partner/employee's laptop, and yelling at the other one like crazy (demanding something ~ I don't remember anymore) - and they said, he walks through anyone in order to achieve what he wants. - I find that stomach twisting, and I'm not capable of doing that.
Maybe that is your problem. Talk about the actual things happening, don't meta everything, just do a few things and THEN try to understand what just happened. Just extrapolating in your mind and then seeing that you took a left turn very early in your calculations when getting to the real world is just boring after a while
Honestly, I was aware of how music business works, so my plan was to build my own audience and be independent. Tried both, pretty hard (well, more than my best, at least) at that.
- EnochLight
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Don't take this the wrong way, but if people don't like your art, then I'm not sure what you expect. Most of us all think our own music is awesome, but whether or not it appeals to 4 people, tens of thousands or millions of potential buying customers, then that doesn't matter one bit if you're good at what you do or if you suck.
Pop music is the cultural folk music of today, and it's different throughout the world. The Japanese love J-Pop; most of midwest America likes rock or country. These are literally polar opposite styles of music, and fans of the genres all think the other genres suck.
I'm not sure what kind of music you do/did, or if you're more inclined to the engineering side of the profession, but the general rule of thumb is: find your audience, and try your art. If no one likes your art, then you have your answer. Sure it may not be the answer you want, but unfortunately - life/the universe is not a sentient entity that owes us anything. If anything, it seems more inclined to try and do everything possible to kill us, so if you can get through life by existing at all, you've been successful!
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite | Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD
Eh, could be that in reality nobody liked my music after all. Time to drop this field, too.EnochLight wrote: ↑17 May 2018Don't take this the wrong way, but if people don't like your art, then I'm not sure what you expect. Most of us all think our own music is awesome, but whether or not it appeals to 4 people, tens of thousands or millions of potential buying customers, then that doesn't matter one bit if you're good at what you do or if you suck.
Pop music is the cultural folk music of today, and it's different throughout the world. The Japanese love J-Pop; most of midwest America likes rock or country. These are literally polar opposite styles of music, and fans of the genres all think the other genres suck.
I'm not sure what kind of music you do/did, or if you're more inclined to the engineering side of the profession, but the general rule of thumb is: find your audience, and try your art. If no one likes your art, then you have your answer. Sure it may not be the answer you want, but unfortunately - life/the universe is not a sentient entity that owes us anything. If anything, it seems more inclined to try and do everything possible to kill us, so if you can get through life by existing at all, you've been successful!
A universal reality where nobody likes your music does not exist. Create your own reality.RobC wrote: ↑17 May 2018Eh, could be that in reality nobody liked my music after all. Time to drop this field, too.EnochLight wrote: ↑17 May 2018
Don't take this the wrong way, but if people don't like your art, then I'm not sure what you expect. Most of us all think our own music is awesome, but whether or not it appeals to 4 people, tens of thousands or millions of potential buying customers, then that doesn't matter one bit if you're good at what you do or if you suck.
Pop music is the cultural folk music of today, and it's different throughout the world. The Japanese love J-Pop; most of midwest America likes rock or country. These are literally polar opposite styles of music, and fans of the genres all think the other genres suck.
I'm not sure what kind of music you do/did, or if you're more inclined to the engineering side of the profession, but the general rule of thumb is: find your audience, and try your art. If no one likes your art, then you have your answer. Sure it may not be the answer you want, but unfortunately - life/the universe is not a sentient entity that owes us anything. If anything, it seems more inclined to try and do everything possible to kill us, so if you can get through life by existing at all, you've been successful!
Piero Manzoni
Artist’s Shit
1961
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- EnochLight
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If you subscribe to the idea of infinite universes/multi-verse, then there certainly is a universal reality where nobody likes your music. But there's also a universal reality where everybody loves your music!
The question is: how the hell do I cross into a different universe!?
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite | Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD
Maybe Consciousness is a byproduct of some kind of Quantum tunneling between the multi-verses. By focusing your idea you become the observer of a reality that folds into the reality of people around you, becoming true to them. No one is crossing anything physically, just your consciousness. Be a stronger believer of yourself and they will follow and believe in you.EnochLight wrote: ↑17 May 2018If you subscribe to the idea of infinite universes/multi-verse, then there certainly is a universal reality where nobody likes your music. But there's also a universal reality where everybody loves your music!
The question is: how the hell do I cross into a different universe!?
Edit: Youtube told me I would be interested in this video, AFTER replying to you.
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... Maybe not for a Tibetan monk in a deep meditation, or for a young student of the Mahabharata...
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It's kind of hard to explain.
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