Noise Engineering's 3x RE
If anything, I'll probably grab Basimilus Iteritas by itself. The other two aren't that special to me.
- kuhliloach
- Posts: 881
- Joined: 09 Dec 2015
To be fair, I quite like Manis as well. I just can't come to terms with the prices of these devices. Basimilus is an exception for me because I've been wanting something for synthesizing kicks in RE format for some time now.kuhliloach wrote: ↑17 May 2018any chance you could be more specific about why one but not the other two?
- Marco Raaphorst
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I love the rawness of it but they seem to be a little too limited imo. All 3 could be one device.
I own all of these as hardware and I'm inclined to disagree with you. The impressive thing about these devices is the range of the different settings and how they interact. Combine that with three modes om BI, for example, and you have sooooo many sounds. What I particularly like is that they sound like nothing else. It shows a great care for product design, they've zoomed in on an interesting set of features and sounds and gone to town on that.Marco Raaphorst wrote: ↑17 May 2018I love the rawness of it but they seem to be a little too limited imo. All 3 could be one device.
To be honest, I've started to enjoy things that do a few thing really well more than things that do all the things.
I just bought the bundle because I want to support interesting rack extension developers. Last night in the studio I played around for about an hour and I am extremely surprised how inspiring these devices are. Unbelievable how well the functionality is limited to the essential.
I would get these anyway purely for the reason that the more successful they are, the more chance there is of more Eurorack developers coming to the RE format which would be a really wonderful thing. Small, interesting, focused REs are the future. We have more than enough in the way of generic effects.
Just take a looked through this list without drooling: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/modules/evaluationlists
Just take a looked through this list without drooling: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/modules/evaluationlists
That's a very good way to look at it.Undistraction wrote: ↑17 May 2018I would get these anyway purely for the reason that the more successful they are, the more chance there is of more Eurorack developers coming to the RE format which would be a really wonderful thing. Small, interesting, focused REs are the future. We have more than enough in the way of generic effects.
Just take a looked through this list without drooling: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/modules/evaluationlists
Since I'm a Eurorack fanatic, I'm always mentioning this to Eurorack devs I meet (primarily those who make digital modules as those make sense to port). If there's a real market for this, and you guys want more, feel free to contact your favorite module developers and let them know what you think.
- Marco Raaphorst
- Posts: 2504
- Joined: 22 Jan 2015
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I will test it al little more. For many years this is still my favorite wacko plugin for insane sounds:MattiasHG wrote: ↑17 May 2018I own all of these as hardware and I'm inclined to disagree with you. The impressive thing about these devices is the range of the different settings and how they interact. Combine that with three modes om BI, for example, and you have sooooo many sounds. What I particularly like is that they sound like nothing else. It shows a great care for product design, they've zoomed in on an interesting set of features and sounds and gone to town on that.Marco Raaphorst wrote: ↑17 May 2018I love the rawness of it but they seem to be a little too limited imo. All 3 could be one device.
To be honest, I've started to enjoy things that do a few thing really well more than things that do all the things.
- Faastwalker
- Posts: 2290
- Joined: 15 Jan 2015
- Location: NSW, Australia
I agree. Monster all singing & dancing synths are great. But I'd love to see more focused devices like the Noise Engineering offerings available in the shop. I think the timing is right. RE's have been around a while now. There is a lot of choice in the shop. That's great but it does mean it gets harder for developers to stand out. One obvious way is to develop something that's a bit off the wall, a bit different, more specific. Beyond this Eurorack is obviously a very exciting world for sound design & exploration. So having an established & well regarded Eurorack developer creating RE's is fantastic. These won't be for everyone. But that's fine. We have the choices now
Also insta-buy for me. Fun, characterful devices always get a place in my rack. Props to the developers for making all 3 available in a package at a IMHO very affordable price.
Same here, I've been working on an Expanse refill for a while now, and to be honest it's been more of a struggle to get it to form a cohesive package like my previous refills. With both Oberon and Zero (previous refill subjects) it seemed easier to get a grasp on the specific character of the synth and build on that. Expanse is harder to pin down and I imagine the same would be true for Europa, though I still have barely tried it.
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Quixotic Sound Design: http://www.quixoticsounddesign.com
Europandemonium Refill: https://gumroad.com/l/YxIGB
Quixotic Sound Design: http://www.quixoticsounddesign.com
Europandemonium Refill: https://gumroad.com/l/YxIGB
You mean it does many things but none of them really well? Maybe.
I was thinking more about how Reason (as a whole) reflects this notion that it's better to do select few things well, than everything 'just' good. Problem is, some aspects are not even good. Rack and Mixer are great, but the Sequencer and GUI (4K & laptop support in particular, not its visual design) are really outdated and are actively standing in a way of comfortable workflow when you compare it to its peers.
Example? Say I have a Subtractor where I automate cutoff, resonance and amp decay; processed through Scream-4 where I need to move P2 and Scale and then I split the signal into low & mid+high bands sending the latter through Synchronous to add some stutter effect that I trigger by automating the amount and rate; and all of it goes through a Send track to hi-passed RV7k. All in all, I need to automate 8 parameters for single sound. In (all?) other DAWs, I'll have my track with MIDI and underneath it I'll have 8 lines, each for one parameter. I'll typically be able to fold all of them completely or keep selected ones visible, while others hidden. In Reason, not only can't I hide automation lanes completely, but I'll have them if 4 SEPARATE sequencer tracts: Subtractor, Scream-4, Synchronous and Mix Channel (for send amount). So for a project with 15 sound sources I'll usually end up with 40-50 tracks, because I like to do a lot of processing on almost everything. Try to work on that effectively on a laptop screen, if you can't zoom out without blurring the picture, can't put windows side by side (Rack & Mixer are vertical by nature, who thought of putting them one on top of the other?!?!), that when single area is open you have those huge handles (gray bars with circle & "Mixer", "Rack", "Sequencer" labels) that take space of 1-2 tracks and no sane person uses them to actually recognise and arrange their screen...
Sorry, I need to vent because otherwise I LOVE Reason - the Rack, the Mixer (even with its limitations), the RE environment and even the look of the software when I squint my eyes; all of it is pure work of a genius! And then I quickly forget about all this, when I need to duplicate a vertical slice of the arrangement (why can't I select time on the transport track?), mute series of 16 clips (why can't I "lasso" them when Mute tool is selected?), change the grid snapping (why do I need to click on a drop-down list, instead of a keyboard shortcut?), guess how many thousands of unknown quantity 0dB on the track's volume fader is when I want to automate it, guess whether my Track Follow is on or not (because there's no visual indication), etc....
I wish I could just hate Reason completely and stick to Live & Bitwig exclusively
Europa does many things well, I just meant it's very very feature dense. Tons of wavetables, modifiers, spectral filter types etc. etc.antic604 wrote: ↑17 May 2018You mean it does many things but none of them really well? Maybe.
I was thinking more about how Reason (as a whole) reflects this notion that it's better to do select few things well, than everything 'just' good. Problem is, some aspects are not even good. Rack and Mixer are great, but the Sequencer and GUI (4K & laptop support in particular, not its visual design) are really outdated and are actively standing in a way of comfortable workflow when you compare it to its peers.
Example? Say I have a Subtractor where I automate cutoff, resonance and amp decay; processed through Scream-4 where I need to move P2 and Scale and then I split the signal into low & mid+high bands sending the latter through Synchronous to add some stutter effect that I trigger by automating the amount and rate; and all of it goes through a Send track to hi-passed RV7k. All in all, I need to automate 8 parameters for single sound. In (all?) other DAWs, I'll have my track with MIDI and underneath it I'll have 8 lines, each for one parameter. I'll typically be able to fold all of them completely or keep selected ones visible, while others hidden. In Reason, not only can't I hide automation lanes completely, but I'll have them if 4 SEPARATE sequencer tracts: Subtractor, Scream-4, Synchronous and Mix Channel (for send amount). So for a project with 15 sound sources I'll usually end up with 40-50 tracks, because I like to do a lot of processing on almost everything. Try to work on that effectively on a laptop screen, if you can't zoom out without blurring the picture, can't put windows side by side (Rack & Mixer are vertical by nature, who thought of putting them one on top of the other?!?!), that when single area is open you have those huge handles (gray bars with circle & "Mixer", "Rack", "Sequencer" labels) that take space of 1-2 tracks and no sane person uses them to actually recognise and arrange their screen...
Sorry, I need to vent because otherwise I LOVE Reason - the Rack, the Mixer (even with its limitations), the RE environment and even the look of the software when I squint my eyes; all of it is pure work of a genius! And then I quickly forget about all this, when I need to duplicate a vertical slice of the arrangement (why can't I select time on the transport track?), mute series of 16 clips (why can't I "lasso" them when Mute tool is selected?), change the grid snapping (why do I need to click on a drop-down list, instead of a keyboard shortcut?), guess how many thousands of unknown quantity 0dB on the track's volume fader is when I want to automate it, guess whether my Track Follow is on or not (because there's no visual indication), etc....
I wish I could just hate Reason completely and stick to Live & Bitwig exclusively
But sure, it probably shines through on a higher level for Propellerhead in general (even way before my time) that we try to do certain things really well, perhaps even at the expense of others. Quality of built-in instruments and effects vs. advanced sequencer features for example.
- chimp_spanner
- Posts: 2925
- Joined: 06 Mar 2015
I love single purpose devices, at least in a modular environment. It makes so much more sense. I love how there aren’t any redundant filters or FX in these Eurorack models. I only see what I need/what I add. The dream is still PH’s own vertical EuroRack (EuroStack?!). Even if they re used stuff we’ve already seen, like oscillators from Parsec or Europa as standalone modules that’d be suuuuper sick.
One thing could solve a lot of issues. Just a tiny bit more customisation.MattiasHG wrote: ↑17 May 2018Europa does many things well, I just meant it's very very feature dense. Tons of wavetables, modifiers, spectral filter types etc. etc.antic604 wrote: ↑17 May 2018
You mean it does many things but none of them really well? Maybe.
I was thinking more about how Reason (as a whole) reflects this notion that it's better to do select few things well, than everything 'just' good. Problem is, some aspects are not even good. Rack and Mixer are great, but the Sequencer and GUI (4K & laptop support in particular, not its visual design) are really outdated and are actively standing in a way of comfortable workflow when you compare it to its peers.
Example? Say I have a Subtractor where I automate cutoff, resonance and amp decay; processed through Scream-4 where I need to move P2 and Scale and then I split the signal into low & mid+high bands sending the latter through Synchronous to add some stutter effect that I trigger by automating the amount and rate; and all of it goes through a Send track to hi-passed RV7k. All in all, I need to automate 8 parameters for single sound. In (all?) other DAWs, I'll have my track with MIDI and underneath it I'll have 8 lines, each for one parameter. I'll typically be able to fold all of them completely or keep selected ones visible, while others hidden. In Reason, not only can't I hide automation lanes completely, but I'll have them if 4 SEPARATE sequencer tracts: Subtractor, Scream-4, Synchronous and Mix Channel (for send amount). So for a project with 15 sound sources I'll usually end up with 40-50 tracks, because I like to do a lot of processing on almost everything. Try to work on that effectively on a laptop screen, if you can't zoom out without blurring the picture, can't put windows side by side (Rack & Mixer are vertical by nature, who thought of putting them one on top of the other?!?!), that when single area is open you have those huge handles (gray bars with circle & "Mixer", "Rack", "Sequencer" labels) that take space of 1-2 tracks and no sane person uses them to actually recognise and arrange their screen...
Sorry, I need to vent because otherwise I LOVE Reason - the Rack, the Mixer (even with its limitations), the RE environment and even the look of the software when I squint my eyes; all of it is pure work of a genius! And then I quickly forget about all this, when I need to duplicate a vertical slice of the arrangement (why can't I select time on the transport track?), mute series of 16 clips (why can't I "lasso" them when Mute tool is selected?), change the grid snapping (why do I need to click on a drop-down list, instead of a keyboard shortcut?), guess how many thousands of unknown quantity 0dB on the track's volume fader is when I want to automate it, guess whether my Track Follow is on or not (because there's no visual indication), etc....
I wish I could just hate Reason completely and stick to Live & Bitwig exclusively
But sure, it probably shines through on a higher level for Propellerhead in general (even way before my time) that we try to do certain things really well, perhaps even at the expense of others. Quality of built-in instruments and effects vs. advanced sequencer features for example.
First off custom keyboard shortcuts with a macro editor option.
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I'm thinking one thing that would almost certainly help get people thinking, using and buying in a more modular way would be an updated combinator.MattiasHG wrote: ↑17 May 2018That's a very good way to look at it.Undistraction wrote: ↑17 May 2018I would get these anyway purely for the reason that the more successful they are, the more chance there is of more Eurorack developers coming to the RE format which would be a really wonderful thing. Small, interesting, focused REs are the future. We have more than enough in the way of generic effects.
Just take a looked through this list without drooling: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/modules/evaluationlists
Since I'm a Eurorack fanatic, I'm always mentioning this to Eurorack devs I meet (primarily those who make digital modules as those make sense to port). If there's a real market for this, and you guys want more, feel free to contact your favorite module developers and let them know what you think.
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- Posts: 728
- Joined: 05 Sep 2017
Seeing as Reason is basically "virtual modular" it is about time that we got some RE's from legit modular makers. Noise Engineering's modules look and sound GREAT, and feature full CV implementation (like they should, yay!), which makes the Reason versions much more attractive than a VST option.
I am especially happy about these units, because there has been a deluge of lazy, minimum-effort rack extensions lately (you all know what I'm talking about), none of which would even pass muster as a free VST. Those kind of RE's dilute the overall attractiveness of the Reason shop, reinforce the idea that Reason is a toy, and make REs seem like a poor mans VST. I hope Props can exercise some quality control and get more items on Noise Engineering's level into the store.
I am especially happy about these units, because there has been a deluge of lazy, minimum-effort rack extensions lately (you all know what I'm talking about), none of which would even pass muster as a free VST. Those kind of RE's dilute the overall attractiveness of the Reason shop, reinforce the idea that Reason is a toy, and make REs seem like a poor mans VST. I hope Props can exercise some quality control and get more items on Noise Engineering's level into the store.
I just had time to play around with those little things. IMO, they sound pretty good and you can dial in pretty fast some weird sounds. Their selection of knobs lead you to some unsual results and can be a good boost for creative sound design and make you think a little bit different when designing sounds. They are obviously not the normal sound food. If it is some good food for me, i am not sure atm and need to try a bit more. If i was not settled with so many synths, i probably would get them directly.
What do i miss? Not much atm, as all is accessable via CV i even do not need a mod matrix. Maybe some dedicated filters per voice and the "usual" stuff would be handy. But since they were created as "modules", you have to build up on them and i think therefor they are pretty good. They invite to turn some knobs and see what happens, very inviting because all is directly accessable.
What do i miss? Not much atm, as all is accessable via CV i even do not need a mod matrix. Maybe some dedicated filters per voice and the "usual" stuff would be handy. But since they were created as "modules", you have to build up on them and i think therefor they are pretty good. They invite to turn some knobs and see what happens, very inviting because all is directly accessable.
Reason12, Win10
I think the shop is really starting to need a big update. As more and more mediocre REs get pumped out the good stuff gets more and more lost. This is when a really solid review/rating system pays along with better categorising//filtering. At the moment almost everything seems to get four stars. Crappy new stuff gets surfaced, as do REs with constant sale prices, while great older REs are buried.Those kind of RE's dilute the overall attractiveness of the Reason shop, reinforce the idea that Reason is a toy, and make REs seem like a poor mans VST.
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