Brand new laptop... Computer too slow. HALP!

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Carly(Poohbear)
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16 May 2018

Bullshit, it does not improve performance. Would love you to prove it.

GRIFTY
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16 May 2018

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
16 May 2018
GRIFTY wrote:
15 May 2018

this is pointless unless you're trying to conserve battery.
Not at all, there is no need to run a system flat out all time, you are only shortening the life time of the device.
hardly. Especially when running within the rated clock speed. It's the difference between twenty years and nineteen and a half. You'll likely upgrade your system long before it dies of "running at the full rated clock speed all the time"

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Carly(Poohbear)
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16 May 2018

GRIFTY wrote:
16 May 2018
Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
16 May 2018


Not at all, there is no need to run a system flat out all time, you are only shortening the life time of the device.
hardly. Especially when running within the rated clock speed. It's the difference between twenty years and nineteen and a half. You'll likely upgrade your system long before it dies of "running at the full rated clock speed all the time"
and then there is heat, noise and the power it consumes...

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EnochLight
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16 May 2018

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
16 May 2018
Bullshit, it does not improve performance. Would love you to prove it.
I wouldn't call it bullshit at all. You can prove it to yourself quite easily: having your power profile set to Balanced will throttle your CPU and make your entire system feel slower than it does compared to when it's clocked to 100%, all of the time. Obviously, with some software YMMV, but overall? Yeah, throttling your CPU does exactly that.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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EnochLight
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16 May 2018

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
16 May 2018
GRIFTY wrote:
16 May 2018


hardly. Especially when running within the rated clock speed. It's the difference between twenty years and nineteen and a half. You'll likely upgrade your system long before it dies of "running at the full rated clock speed all the time"
and then there is heat, noise and the power it consumes...
But that's moving the goal posts of the conversation. We're talking about component failure. Running in Performance mode does not degrade your components (assuming they're ran within spec). As I mentioned earlier, even overclocking these days - within reason - doesn't degrade component life measurably.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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sublunar
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16 May 2018

EnochLight wrote:
16 May 2018
Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
16 May 2018
Bullshit, it does not improve performance. Would love you to prove it.
I wouldn't call it bullshit at all. You can prove it to yourself quite easily: having your power profile set to Balanced will throttle your CPU and make your entire system feel slower than it does compared to when it's clocked to 100%, all of the time. Obviously, with some software YMMV, but overall? Yeah, throttling your CPU does exactly that.
This.

I would only add that you can customize your power profiles to not do this. But by default, yes this is definitely true. My profile is such that it throttles performance when battery is below X level. I will instantly get "computer too slow" message or other problems when running on battery and it gets low. This happens all the time on my lunch break. Plug power cable back in and I'm back in business.

Adjusting your power profile, depending on the defaults that were in place, may not "increase performance" per se, but it will prevent the decrease in performance that such profile-based throttling causes.

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Carly(Poohbear)
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16 May 2018

sublunar wrote:
16 May 2018
EnochLight wrote:
16 May 2018


I wouldn't call it bullshit at all. You can prove it to yourself quite easily: having your power profile set to Balanced will throttle your CPU and make your entire system feel slower than it does compared to when it's clocked to 100%, all of the time. Obviously, with some software YMMV, but overall? Yeah, throttling your CPU does exactly that.
This.

I would only add that you can customize your power profiles to not do this. But by default, yes this is definitely true. My profile is such that it throttles performance when battery is below X level. I will instantly get "computer too slow" message or other problems when running on battery and it gets low. This happens all the time on my lunch break. Plug power cable back in and I'm back in business.

Adjusting your power profile, depending on the defaults that were in place, may not "increase performance" per se, but it will prevent the decrease in performance that such profile-based throttling causes.
I really don't have an issue with my laptop, I can see it running at 1.1 Ghz without any issues and it throttles up when needed, and the Reasontalk benchmark runs the same no matter what power plan I use and surly that is the main test.

Also note I never run my laptop just on the battery (I bet I have but I can't remember doing so).

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sublunar
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16 May 2018

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
16 May 2018
sublunar wrote:
16 May 2018


This.

I would only add that you can customize your power profiles to not do this. But by default, yes this is definitely true. My profile is such that it throttles performance when battery is below X level. I will instantly get "computer too slow" message or other problems when running on battery and it gets low. This happens all the time on my lunch break. Plug power cable back in and I'm back in business.

Adjusting your power profile, depending on the defaults that were in place, may not "increase performance" per se, but it will prevent the decrease in performance that such profile-based throttling causes.
I really don't have an issue with my laptop, I can see it running at 1.1 Ghz without any issues and it throttles up when needed, and the Reasontalk benchmark runs the same no matter what power plan I use and surly that is the main test.

Also note I never run my laptop just on the battery (I bet I have but I can't remember doing so).
The plans differ based on whether you're plugged in or on battery. So that's why yours works-because you're plugged in all the time. Check how your plans are configured and try running the benchmark on battery, especially low battery. You'll see a difference (assuming your plan is the usual default of throttling to X% of CPU on battery). Modifying the power plan and changing the default for power button/lid close action is one of the first things I do on a new laptop. I hate sleep mode and have it disabled always. I also set mine to do nothing when I close the lid. If I want the computer off, I'll shut the damn thing off myself thank you very much.

Ostermilk
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16 May 2018

There is an 'Ultimate Performance' plan that comes with Windows 10 1803 (April Update), it isn't visible by default.
A new power scheme – Ultimate Performance: Demanding workloads on workstations always desire more performance. As part of our effort to provide the absolute maximum performance we’re introducing a new power policy called Ultimate Performance. Windows has developed key areas where performance and efficiency tradeoffs are made in the OS. Over time, we’ve amassed a collection of settings which allow the OS to quickly tune the behavior based on user preference, policy, underlying hardware or workload.

This new policy builds on the current High-Performance policy, and it goes a step further to eliminate micro-latencies associated with fine grained power management techniques. The Ultimate Performance Power plan is selectable either by an OEM on new systems or selectable by a user. To do so, you can go to Control Panel and navigate to Power Options under Hardware and Sound (you can also “run” Powercfg.cpl). Just like other power policies in Windows, the contents of the Ultimate Performance policy can be customized.

As the power scheme is geared towards reducing micro-latencies it may directly impact hardware; and consume more power than the default balanced plan. The Ultimate Performance power policy is currently not available on battery powered systems.
It's geared up; for mains powered machines but If you fancy giving it a tr,ry see here to enable it.

https://winaero.com/blog/enable-ultimat ... indows-10/

djadalaide
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16 May 2018

Could you install cinebench r15, do a cpu test and post the multi-core result you get? It sounds like there is something far wrong with your machine.

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PSoames
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16 May 2018

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
16 May 2018
Bullshit, it does not improve performance. Would love you to prove it.
I'm not sure what I've done to provoke such ire, but here is a rough and ready comparison of power profiles and the effect on reason performance; this is on a desktop machine.



Stress test has multiple instances of Expanse running the default patch; playing a 3 note chord over 4 bars, appended cumulatively. Played until error message. Stop time recorded.

Power Saving profile approx. 18s
High Performance profile approx. 56s

I'm unsure of my methodology, so comments welcome; what I will say is the test was identical between profiles.

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chimp_spanner
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16 May 2018

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
16 May 2018
Bullshit, it does not improve performance. Would love you to prove it.
Maybe it varies from machine to machine but I can confirm here that it 100% affects performance. Many times, when I've taken my laptop off the mains to use it on the couch and plugged back in the power scheme has stayed on balanced, and suddenly my projects are red-barring where they were fine before. Switch to high performance; all sorted. So I wouldn't say it's bullshit at all.

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EnochLight
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16 May 2018

Ostermilk wrote:
16 May 2018
There is an 'Ultimate Performance' plan that comes with Windows 10 1803 (April Update), it isn't visible by default.

It's geared up; for mains powered machines but If you fancy giving it a tr,ry see here to enable it.

https://winaero.com/blog/enable-ultimat ... indows-10/
That's pretty cool - will have to check it out after I update later this year (this is only available for Windows 10 version 1803 or later, also known as the "Spring Update"). I tend to hold off for 5 or 6 months on the big updates to wait out all of the bug fixes.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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Carly(Poohbear)
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16 May 2018

chimp_spanner wrote:
16 May 2018
Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
16 May 2018
Bullshit, it does not improve performance. Would love you to prove it.
Maybe it varies from machine to machine but I can confirm here that it 100% affects performance. Many times, when I've taken my laptop off the mains to use it on the couch and plugged back in the power scheme has stayed on balanced, and suddenly my projects are red-barring where they were fine before. Switch to high performance; all sorted. So I wouldn't say it's bullshit at all.
I would say it how you machine it setup is why you are seeing an issue there.

Having a higher power plan won't improve performance, you machine is design to run at X rate, a higher performance plan won't effect that.

and going back to a previous statement I made "the Reasontalk benchmark runs the same no matter what power plan I use and surly that is the main test."

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sublunar
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16 May 2018

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
16 May 2018
and going back to a previous statement I made "the Reasontalk benchmark runs the same no matter what power plan I use and surly that is the main test."
Run the benchmark on a low battery without mains. Unless you've modified your power plans, you will definitely see a difference. My laptop stops playing my projects when I'm running on battery and the level goes below X%.

Maybe I'm getting involved in a conversation where the person you're replying to made untrue statements, but:

Modifying the power plans won't technically improve your computer's top performance but you can absolutely reduce/eliminate the decrease in performance caused by said plans. It's a real thing. The default power plans throttle your machine. More so on battery and even more on low battery.

Disclaimer: I'm a Windows systems administrator and a happy Reason user.
Last edited by sublunar on 16 May 2018, edited 1 time in total.

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Carly(Poohbear)
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16 May 2018

sublunar wrote:
16 May 2018
Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
16 May 2018
and going back to a previous statement I made "the Reasontalk benchmark runs the same no matter what power plan I use and surly that is the main test."
Run the benchmark on a low battery without mains. Unless you've modified your power plans, you will definitely see a difference. My laptop stops playing my projects when I'm running on battery and the level goes below X%.

Maybe I'm getting involved in a conversation where the person you're replying to made untrue statements, but:

The power plans won't actually improve your computer performance but it will reduce/eliminate the decrease in performance caused by said plan. It's a real thing. The power plan throttles your machine. More so on battery and even more on low battery.

Disclaimer: I'm a Windows systems administrator.
But why the fuck would one do that, that's just being stupid?

Disclaimer: I worked at MS for 10 years have over 10 MPC, MSCE, MSDBA blah blah blah...

GRIFTY
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16 May 2018

lol microsoft?! now i really don't trust anything you say /s

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sublunar
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16 May 2018

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
16 May 2018

But why the fuck would one do that, that's just being stupid?

Disclaimer: I worked at MS for 10 years have over 10 MPC, MSCE, MSDBA blah blah blah...
I'm not sure why you're being snippy.

Also my wording was a little weird, I'm trying to type in a hurry before taking lunch.

--

Um.... Because laptops come with batteries. And sometimes you can't plug in. Or sometimes you don't want to fuck with plugging it in.

I take my laptop to lunch breaks often. I don't like fucking with the cables unnecessarily. So I run off battery. Please explain how exactly that's stupid?

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sublunar
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16 May 2018

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
16 May 2018
Also note I never run my laptop just on the battery (I bet I have but I can't remember doing so).
If running off the battery is "stupid" then what is never letting your battery fully discharge/charge? EH?

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Carly(Poohbear)
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16 May 2018

sublunar wrote:
16 May 2018
Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
16 May 2018
Also note I never run my laptop just on the battery (I bet I have but I can't remember doing so).
If running off the battery is "stupid" then what is never letting your battery fully discharge/charge? EH?
I don't need the battery so why would I worry about the life of the battery?

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Carly(Poohbear)
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16 May 2018

sublunar wrote:
16 May 2018
Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
16 May 2018

But why the fuck would one do that, that's just being stupid?

Disclaimer: I worked at MS for 10 years have over 10 MPC, MSCE, MSDBA blah blah blah...
I'm not sure why you're being snippy.

Also my wording was a little weird, I'm trying to type in a hurry before taking lunch.

--

Um.... Because laptops come with batteries. And sometimes you can't plug in. Or sometimes you don't want to fuck with plugging it in.

I take my laptop to lunch breaks often. I don't like fucking with the cables unnecessarily. So I run off battery. Please explain how exactly that's stupid?
Lets run performance stuff off a battery, the laptop battery won't last for long...

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sublunar
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16 May 2018

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
16 May 2018

Lets run performance stuff off a battery, the laptop battery won't last for long...
Are you normally this obtuse or do you just need a Snickers?

I do this ALL THE TIME. Just so happens my old battery on my old laptop runs just long enough with all at maximum settings until the end of my lunch break. So I get about 40 minutes of high performance on just a battery. Gosh, I know, how utterly stupid of me.

But you've taken us off into a tangent. The point is that power plans DO in fact affect performance. And the reality/consensus agrees. I would think if you worked at MS for 10 years you'd have known this but based on the conversation you seemed quite sure this isn't the case and now your argument is that it's "stupid" to run on just a battery. But NEVER running on battery and letting your battery discharge/charge is actually far "stupid"er a thing to do IMO. Either way, you seem rather hostile and I think I could spend my time better elsewhere.

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Carly(Poohbear)
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16 May 2018

sublunar wrote:
16 May 2018
Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
16 May 2018

Lets run performance stuff off a battery, the laptop battery won't last for long...
Are you normally this obtuse or do you just need a Snickers?

I do this ALL THE TIME. Just so happens my old battery on my old laptop runs just long enough with all at maximum settings until the end of my lunch break. So I get about 40 minutes of high performance on just a battery. Gosh, I know, how stupid of me.

But you've taken us off into a tangent. The point is that power plans DO in fact affect performance. And the reality/consensus agrees. I would think if you worked at MS for 10 years you'd have known this but based on the conversation you seemed quite sure this isn't the case and now your argument is that it's "stupid" to run on just a battery. But NEVER running on battery and letting your battery discharge/charge is actually far "stupid"er a thing to do IMO. Either way, you seem rather hostile and I think I could spend my time better elsewhere.
Take things out of context all you want.

A high performance plan will not improve performance.

For doing a serious amount of work don't work off a battery.

You don't get it about the way I use my laptop, so discharging my laptop is not needed.

Just because I don't mince with my words does not make one "hostile".

Ostermilk
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16 May 2018

EnochLight wrote:
16 May 2018
Ostermilk wrote:
16 May 2018
There is an 'Ultimate Performance' plan that comes with Windows 10 1803 (April Update), it isn't visible by default.

It's geared up; for mains powered machines but If you fancy giving it a tr,ry see here to enable it.

https://winaero.com/blog/enable-ultimat ... indows-10/
That's pretty cool - will have to check it out after I update later this year (this is only available for Windows 10 version 1803 or later, also known as the "Spring Update"). I tend to hold off for 5 or 6 months on the big updates to wait out all of the bug fixes.
Meanwhile I'll tell you if something breaks.... :lol:

I'm testing out the Ultimate Performance plan, but it doesn't look to be much different (if at all) to the High Performance plan that I'd already tweaked. The plan seems to have been geared toward Pro for Workstations (rather than vanilla Pro) but it looks like it's available on all editions provided you are running the Spring update, which I would expect to be on a brand new machine.

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sublunar
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16 May 2018

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
16 May 2018
A high performance plan will not improve performance.

Just because I don't mince with my words does not make one "hostile".
It seems you just can't accept an alternate/parallel reality to the one you believe in. So you engage in deflection and aggression as a sort of smoke screen.

A high performance plan DEFINITELY, VERIFIABLY, BY DESIGN improves performance compared to the default power saver mode/running on battery. ---> Fact ---> Reality

I would further argue that lashing out and calling things stupid is in fact demonstrably hostile. This has definitely not been a friendly conversation. You've been overtly hostile to myself and others. Over Windows Power Saving mode. It's mind boggling that a conversation about power saving mode in Windows would result in such silly bonkers nonsense.
Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
16 May 2018
For doing a serious amount of work don't work off a battery.
I will continue to do so. In fact, I JUST DID on my lunch break just now. You can't stop me!

PS.

IT WAS WONDERFUL.

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