Where Do People Start?

[Zac]

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[aeox]

Jumping into functional music by ear isn't feasible because time, experience and knowledge is required.

If you spend the time to gain the knowledge and experience then what is stopping anyone from writing music by ear rather than knowing music notation and writing it by hand without hearing it?

I was only sharing my personal experience and the way I am best able to learn and absorb information and recognize patterns naturally within music. I was sharing my thoughts with the OP about this because like I said earlier, in a previous thread(maybe months ago) he was talking about wanting to go to school to learn music theory (if I'm not mistaken) I was expressing my belief that you don't really need to pay to be taught those kinds of things. Like you said, all you need is time to acquire knowledge and experience.

Every day for me is an opportunity to learn something new. That's why I'm frequently on this forum in the first place I try to keep up with every thread just because I've found really useful information in the most random threads and it's great.

PS, No hard feelings and I'm not ignoring you.

[Zac]

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[Runner2x]

If you spend the time to gain the knowledge and experience then what is stopping anyone from writing music by ear rather than knowing music notation and writing it by hand without hearing it?

Knowing the theory behind what you are doing or why you are doing it has nothing to do with writing musical notation. I speak of practicality - not literally writing sheet music! It shouldn't be too much to know enough basic theory to want a sus4 chord for a tense techno track or some inverted 9th for a feel good deep house track. I would even go far enough to say that understanding the tension between the notes helped me develop my sound. That said, I think it is entirely possible to develop your sound without any knowledge but then argument for efficiency comes into play. I am not one to sit there and screw around with notes in a piano roll sequencer until something sounds good to me. Also, as mentioned, I did a lot of projects in Phrygian mode last year and I feel that naturally made my projects more cohesive for an album.

[Runner2x]

I knew then it was a pointless game for the likes of me. I was disillusioned about relationships and the workaday world very early on. So I'm a bum/tramp.

Make sure the journey makes you happy because one destination only leads to another.

Haha

I can relate of course.

[Runner2x]

I was only sharing my personal experience and the way I am best able to learn and absorb information and recognize patterns naturally within music. I was sharing my thoughts with the OP about this because like I said earlier, in a previous thread(maybe months ago) he was talking about wanting to go to school to learn music theory (if I'm not mistaken) I was expressing my belief that you don't really need to pay to be taught those kinds of things. Like you said, all you need is time to acquire knowledge and experience.

Yeah you don't need school because there's YouTube to learn enough to get you by! I would only make a suggestion of proper schooling for audio engineering but to be an electronic musician? Nah that's a joke. Somebody came over to my house last year and told me he was taking theory classes. I literally laughed out loud. School didn't do him any good the way he expected of course.

[Runner2x]

Fun fact: my brother once hired a guitar tutor. When he showed up, he realized he was more advanced than the tutor, and left.

[Zac]

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[Zac]

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[Zac]

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[Zac]

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[Zac]

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[dvdrtldg]

If I'm feeling uninspired but I want to make something, I start with PSQ-1684 hooked up to whatever synth I haven't used for a while or am least familiar with

[avasopht]

When it comes to needing to know theory, some people can learn it all by ear and intuition.

I know musicians like this with amazing complex arrangements but don't know what the chords are called, just how to play them.

There's one highly skilled professional jazz musician who doesn't know any theory, but had invented his own system of notation involving letters, colours and other stuff.

It's not so much that the theory isn't important, but that some people do have the ability to derive it, and to analyse structure without needing instruction.

I was formally trained, but I had no trouble composing and resolving chords before that. Having a strong memory may have helped.

[antic604]

I'm starting with Blocks - I'd create a 2-3 tracks loop (drums & bass, or maybe chord progression, or a melody - no strict rule there) and then add stuff to it, copy to other Blocks to make variations or breaks. Then I'd paint the Blocks to arranger, cutting & muting stuff up to create a progression. Then I convert Blocks to arranger clips and add automation, incidental one-off stuff, transitions, etc.

It's basically a Live / Bitwig way of working, without the live jamming and a clip launcher

[normen]

When it comes to needing to know theory, some people can learn it all by ear and intuition.

I know musicians like this with amazing complex arrangements but don't know what the chords are called, just how to play them.

There's one highly skilled professional jazz musician who doesn't know any theory, but had invented his own system of notation involving letters, colours and other stuff.

It's not so much that the theory isn't important, but that some people do have the ability to derive it, and to analyse structure without needing instruction.

I was formally trained, but I had no trouble composing and resolving chords before that. Having a strong memory may have helped.

Well if we‘re talking Mozart level skills then I don’t think anybody calls that „playing by ear“. And obviously if you boil it down to the plain words then everybody always plays by ear - except Abaddon from Venom, he has a traffic light xD

It‘s like Mozart said - if you have to ask how to do something then it‘s probably a good idea to start step by step.

[Runner2x]

It's not so much that the theory isn't important, but that some people do have the ability to derive it, and to analyse structure without needing instruction.

I agree with that. An example would be somebody making a rap beat and playing a melodic riff with a prominent minor second which seems to be popular from what I've heard. The theory behind the movement isn't necessary but knowing that moving from a given white key to the neighboring black key becomes mentally ingrained as it lives up to the standard of a rap beat that goes hard. When I started in hip hop, I just played chords skipping every other white key for the most part and it made sense. There are definitely ways to circumvent actually knowing the theory but going down the rabbit hole has produced great results.

[Runner2x]

Explain to me... rock music such as kings of leon... sex is on fire. Huge. Ancient now but it's not down to anything more than the vocalisation and women loving it. Men too.

Talk about music all you want. It works and grabs people or its flat and does nothing.

Love that song! Yeah theory (and discussion) can be thought of as a toolbox. Tools don't necessarily make somebody a great craftsman and it's what you do with the tools that matters of course.

[Runner2x]

You can know how to do as many techno reverb kick backz as u like. If those result in nothing but a few hundred or even thousand soundcloud plays... it's nothing. Dust. A few peeps like me will say... sounds awesome.. sure.

Gotta make music people will listen to.

Well that's why I won't bother sharing music on a forum so much anymore!

A few thousand plays can tickle my pickle though. I'm too old to be a rock star; being a ghost or doing something behind the music would be ideal for me.

Take care.

[123repeater]

I absoutely NEVER start in reason. It just leads to killer sounds but bad songs. I write melody/chords then lyrics (with guitar). Then build my reason track to support the SONG.

Melody (and lyrics if used with melody) is way more important than anything else which shows why so much old music that was recorded on antiquated gear still holds value... cause they are great songs.

[Reasonable man]

I'm starting with Blocks - I'd create a 2-3 tracks loop (drums & bass, or maybe chord progression, or a melody - no strict rule there) and then add stuff to it, copy to other Blocks to make variations or breaks. Then I'd paint the Blocks to arranger, cutting & muting stuff up to create a progression. Then I convert Blocks to arranger clips and add automation, incidental one-off stuff, transitions, etc.

It's basically a Live / Bitwig way of working, without the live jamming and a clip launcher

I think this is a good approach and a tried and tested method of writing ideas cause it can guarantee an arrangement too. Although i still have to dabble in using blocks i think that the principle of comming up with about 5 ideas and linning them up in the sequencer on mute is the same kind of approach (this is my apprach anyway) . I try pick my main idea from those ideas which means that i then have my central theme down then its about figuring out when to bring it in . Maybe at the start maybe the middle etc etc and how im going to blend in the other ideas to support that idea and how much emphasis i'm gonna ultimatley give those contrasting ideas. Then there's the production of those ideas and automation etc.

I dont write in any genre cause i hate the limitations associated with that. My gripe without alot of music i hear is that it follows obvious and generic formulas that are limited to creativity . So many times i go on youtube to figure out how to do something specifically in Reason and its full of guys saying stuff like "you must have the intro 8 bars... then the verse 8 bars then the build up and 'the 'rise' then the chorus for 32 bars ...then 'the drop' etc and i can't help thinking ....says who?" who makes these rules up anyway? . Music i listen to..bands/artists dont include anything as crass as a 'rise' or any generic cliches and they've managed to write good music without these so called formulas. But thats just my opinion

[nooomy]

Hi All!

I'm interested in how people here start an electronic music track.

Would you think about the structure first?
Would you have a melody in your head and that sparks your inspiration?
Do any of you have templates already made?
How important is sound selection in your dance tracks?
Do any of you copy the structure of one of your favourite dance tracks?

Thanks!

I usually start with an idea of what genre i want to produce. like techno, house, dub, reggea or something else and then i start gathering sounds that fit together and that reflect that genre
I usually start with the drums and then the pad och bass, usually the bass because that is the foundation of the song

[cognitive]

I tend to start with melodies and supporting chord changes, then work my way to underlying grooves (kick, percussion, bass) and overall arrangements. Some talk about melodies in dance music in a very broad sense, where a main musical idea is called a "melody", even if it is something like not-very-melodic rhythmic sounds or arpeggiated chords. My PERSONAL definition of "melody" tends to be more confined to main musical motifs that a person could hum or sing along with.

So in that regard, I pay particular attention to chorus-type "hooks", making them melodically memorable and singable in the context of dance music. Of course some genres of EDM aren't as centered around melodies and might be more about creative use of sounds and textures, but for me, having a more traditional melodic song-oriented approach plays more to my personal strengths. If I have a good melodic hook, much of the rest can be brought up to par in a fairly straightforward manner, depending on the target sub-genre of dance music. For that part of the process, I will often grab genre-specific "template" material I have put together to get a basic arrangement under the melodies, then start getting creative with custom sounds, musical parts (percussion, piano roll, keyboard performance, textures) and one-shot sound effects.

I know the usual pattern is to NOT start mixing until the music is done, but I often find it inspiring to to a little mixing, eq and effects just to get a more pumped sound as I am composing and arranging. I avoid getting TOO twiddly because it is a distraction from creating the music, but a little beef in the playback can go a long way toward keeping me excited and focused on a piece of music.

For a recent project, I have been adapting some older classic songs to a modern electronic dance sound for a female singer. One of the challenges is that some of the older melodies that were memorable in the context of the older songs just don't translate that well to memorable choruses for pop-electronic dance material. So for a couple of tracks I have had to come up with some new melodies for vocals and/or synth parts during the big anthem choruses that reference the original melodies, but are unique, memorable, modern and easy to sing along with.

On a related note, you can often find great starting-point ideas from other genres of music to then use as launching points for creating exciting dance tracks.


All that being said, everyone has their own personal creative process so the way that I do things might not be relevant to some music producers.

[cognitive]

A recommendation to the OP if you don't already have this. Take a look at the G-Fill Dance Anthem Tools in the prop shop.

https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... hem-tools/

If you dig deep into this, it's like a "Dance Music Course" in a Refill. Not only is this one packed with many, many great sounds to use as-is, or as starting points for your own sounds, but it also comes with sample projects, including a full sample song that covers in sections MANY genres of dance music in one place. Dissecting this Refill will give you a LOT of material to draw from in creating your own stuff.

[Creativemind]

A recommendation to the OP if you don't already have this. Take a look at the G-Fill Dance Anthem Tools in the prop shop.

https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... hem-tools/

If you dig deep into this, it's like a "Dance Music Course" in a Refill. Not only is this one packed with many, many great sounds to use as-is, or as starting points for your own sounds, but it also comes with sample projects, including a full sample song that covers in sections MANY genres of dance music in one place. Dissecting this Refill will give you a LOT of material to draw from in creating your own stuff.

That does look very intriguing actually. Packed full 'n' all.

Thanks.