MCU Xtender's and Such - HIGHLY important question
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Hey guys-
I'm finally making the big purchase next month on a big space for a commercial studio. I've put quite a bit of thought into all this.
One thing I did NOT want to do is drop ten grand on a control surface that maps only to Pro Tools, and be an enormous paperweight in the studio when using any other DAW. The idea of that seemed extremely inefficient and wasteful to me.
So, I decided that I'm going to do this like a reasonable person and get a nice control surface for the studio that controls all DAWs, including one that's frequently neglected by third party companies, Propellerhead's Reason, which I actually use quite often with the hip hop and dance clients (almost as much as Maschine, which is the other beat-making DAW I use).
I would never mix in Maschine, so I obviously don't need it for that (especially since I would do all that on the Maschine stuff on the Maschine hardware anyway), but it needs to work with Reason, Pro Tools, and Logic; Pro Tools and Logic, everyone already knows works quite well with MCU.
I've already verified that the MCU standalone works with Reason including the motorized fader and banking functionalities, but who here as used the MXU Extension panel along with it? Does it work correctly? Does it matter which "side" you put the Extension on? Can you determine which "side" it CAN be on in Reason? Is there a software that comes with MCU that defines this parameter, or is there only one "side" you CAN use it on??
I called Mackie, the rep did not really seem to know these answers, unfortunately.
Can anyone help me out with this question? It's between this control surface and Presonus' Faderport 16. Which one should I buy, guys?? Which one do you guys think will be better for this?
Thanks!
CJ
I'm finally making the big purchase next month on a big space for a commercial studio. I've put quite a bit of thought into all this.
One thing I did NOT want to do is drop ten grand on a control surface that maps only to Pro Tools, and be an enormous paperweight in the studio when using any other DAW. The idea of that seemed extremely inefficient and wasteful to me.
So, I decided that I'm going to do this like a reasonable person and get a nice control surface for the studio that controls all DAWs, including one that's frequently neglected by third party companies, Propellerhead's Reason, which I actually use quite often with the hip hop and dance clients (almost as much as Maschine, which is the other beat-making DAW I use).
I would never mix in Maschine, so I obviously don't need it for that (especially since I would do all that on the Maschine stuff on the Maschine hardware anyway), but it needs to work with Reason, Pro Tools, and Logic; Pro Tools and Logic, everyone already knows works quite well with MCU.
I've already verified that the MCU standalone works with Reason including the motorized fader and banking functionalities, but who here as used the MXU Extension panel along with it? Does it work correctly? Does it matter which "side" you put the Extension on? Can you determine which "side" it CAN be on in Reason? Is there a software that comes with MCU that defines this parameter, or is there only one "side" you CAN use it on??
I called Mackie, the rep did not really seem to know these answers, unfortunately.
Can anyone help me out with this question? It's between this control surface and Presonus' Faderport 16. Which one should I buy, guys?? Which one do you guys think will be better for this?
Thanks!
CJ
- fieldframe
- RE Developer
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While I can't give you a definitive answer to your question, there is evidence Reason supports the Extender, in both left and right configurations. If you go to /Library/Application Support/Propellerhead Software/Remote/Codecs/Lua Codecs/Mackie (or the equivalent on Windows), you'll see the codec files, including icons depicting an MCU+Extender on either side.
Having worked with the Remote protocol somewhat, I would assume Reason handles this by changing the base channel (a Remote parameter) for the Extender if it's on the right, and for the MCU if it's to the right of the Extender.
Having worked with the Remote protocol somewhat, I would assume Reason handles this by changing the base channel (a Remote parameter) for the Extender if it's on the right, and for the MCU if it's to the right of the Extender.
- United South
- Posts: 151
- Joined: 27 Dec 2017
If I was going to spend 1k I would get this.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... on-console
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... on-console
A MCU plus one Extender is supported in Reason, if you look into Reasons MIDI settings you see separate plugins for MCU / MCU+XT Left / MCU+XT Right. It does NOT support a MCU with two XTs out of the box though, you have to manually change the script for that.
The integration is... Meh. Laughable compared to Logic or Pro Tools. A few parameters are mapped.
The integration is... Meh. Laughable compared to Logic or Pro Tools. A few parameters are mapped.
MIght be worth it if it supported Reason.United South wrote:If I was going to spend 1k I would get this.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... on-console
Still not the same as physical faders IMO, though it feels good for a touch controller for Pro Tools. Guys know who have it still don’t always use it, so there’s that…
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Selig Audio, LLC
I totally agree, and can imagine it would be even worse for live work as opposed to studio mixing. I still prefer the ability to physically control levels and definitely miss having 24 ICON faders at hand. Just didn’t get that same level of control with Raven.normen wrote:Touch is really not great for this imo. I tried it back and forth, in my studio and live. Live its even worse not actually feeling any fader or knob. You constantly have to look at the screen instead of the stage.
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Selig Audio, LLC
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I considered the Raven but I'm not the biggest fan on how it responds to touch. At least for the first generation series. Perhaps the new gen Ravens are better - I don't know.
Yeah, it's really about REMOVING that additional hand-eye-coordination thing and with a touch screen you just MOVE it from the mouse cursor to your hand. As long as we can't feel the stuff on screen that won't change really.selig wrote: ↑27 Mar 2018I totally agree, and can imagine it would be even worse for live work as opposed to studio mixing. I still prefer the ability to physically control levels and definitely miss having 24 ICON faders at hand. Just didn’t get that same level of control with Raven.normen wrote:Touch is really not great for this imo. I tried it back and forth, in my studio and live. Live its even worse not actually feeling any fader or knob. You constantly have to look at the screen instead of the stage.
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Yeah, I think we can all agree that the Raven would suck to control Reason specifically.
One more question, even though it supports the Mackie MCU Pro and ONE Extender, what about the C4 in addition to that?
Obviously, I would have to buy a used one, as they are out of production, but would it actually still work when accompanied by both the MCU Pro plus one extender?
One more question, even though it supports the Mackie MCU Pro and ONE Extender, what about the C4 in addition to that?
Obviously, I would have to buy a used one, as they are out of production, but would it actually still work when accompanied by both the MCU Pro plus one extender?
Yeah, it works basically like a separate control surface then.agentgfunk wrote: ↑07 Apr 2018Yeah, I think we can all agree that the Raven would suck to control Reason specifically.
One more question, even though it supports the Mackie MCU Pro and ONE Extender, what about the C4 in addition to that?
Obviously, I would have to buy a used one, as they are out of production, but would it actually still work when accompanied by both the MCU Pro plus one extender?
- LABONERECORDINGS
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Mackie MCU Pro Control + C4 + Xtenders work fine. We used to have MCU Pro + C4 and thoroughly enjoyed working on sessions and the faders are a damn sight quieter compared to the BCF2000.
However we've moved on a bit and jumped for a cheap as chips Mackie d8b (because we're using more hardware and 24 ins / outs on the desk, and we got an absolute bargain for fully unlocked all the plugins for the d8b too).
You can check out other controllers that work with MCU protocol (not Mackie HUI, which Cubase , ProTools and Logic we think can use, it's a different method of control, which if we get time might look into recoding the d8b and do a Remote codec for it to use the same 8 faders alike the MCU Pro Control)
C4s are pretty much like rocking horse these days, Xtenders easier to get hold of and MCUs you can pick up from eBay or from Reverb, or still new.
PS Penny and Giles flying faders, you can get replacements if any faders 'die' on a used MCU / XTender, been there done that too
However we've moved on a bit and jumped for a cheap as chips Mackie d8b (because we're using more hardware and 24 ins / outs on the desk, and we got an absolute bargain for fully unlocked all the plugins for the d8b too).
You can check out other controllers that work with MCU protocol (not Mackie HUI, which Cubase , ProTools and Logic we think can use, it's a different method of control, which if we get time might look into recoding the d8b and do a Remote codec for it to use the same 8 faders alike the MCU Pro Control)
C4s are pretty much like rocking horse these days, Xtenders easier to get hold of and MCUs you can pick up from eBay or from Reverb, or still new.
PS Penny and Giles flying faders, you can get replacements if any faders 'die' on a used MCU / XTender, been there done that too
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Totally agree - our studio colleague has one, and Raven doesn't support Studio One with the overlay, as the overlays are multitouch (we know Studio One multitouch isnt working right with Raven, not sure if Reason allows multitouch yet but likely not)agentgfunk wrote: ↑07 Apr 2018Yeah, I think we can all agree that the Raven would suck to control Reason specifically.
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Yeah, I've heard those D8B's are sick. Are they actually 56 channel interface/control surfaces as I've heard? Or are they technically "digital mixers?" I've never used one in person or looked in depth at pictures online so it's hard to tell. Do they just map nicely to Traktion and Reason, or does it map easily with Pro Tools/Logic as well?Mackie MCU Pro Control + C4 + Xtenders work fine. We used to have MCU Pro + C4 and thoroughly enjoyed working on sessions and the faders are a damn sight quieter compared to the BCF2000.
However we've moved on a bit and jumped for a cheap as chips Mackie d8b (because we're using more hardware and 24 ins / outs on the desk, and we got an absolute bargain for fully unlocked all the plugins for the d8b too).
You can check out other controllers that work with MCU protocol (not Mackie HUI, which Cubase , ProTools and Logic we think can use, it's a different method of control, which if we get time might look into recoding the d8b and do a Remote codec for it to use the same 8 faders alike the MCU Pro Control)
C4s are pretty much like rocking horse these days, Xtenders easier to get hold of and MCUs you can pick up from eBay or from Reverb, or still new.
PS Penny and Giles flying faders, you can get replacements if any faders 'die' on a used MCU / XTender, been there done that too
I just got the MCU Pro in the mail last night. Still waiting on the extender. It's supposed to ship out today. Had a minor period of trouble setting it up last night but figured it out. Only thing that bums me out bad is the master fader doesn't work in Pro Tools. Wondering if anyone's found a way to fix it....
Other than that, it seems like a solid piece of gear so far. Really sturdy build. Faders are very light but sturdy. Wish I could get a Reason lexan for it. An internet search turns up almost nothing.
Still trying to figure out all the in depth commands for it. I'm also probably gonna buy a C4 used when I get a chance, also, if you think it's indeed worth it. I really like the though of being able to control plugin parameters in Pro Tools and Reason. I've heard they map nicely to the stock plugins in those programs, but do they map automatically to, say, Waves plugins as well?
You in the States? I called Sweetwater for my overlay. Special order. Got it in a few days. I think it's hard to get it unless you go through a dealer.agentgfunk wrote: ↑20 Apr 2018Wish I could get a Reason lexan for it. An internet search turns up almost nothing.
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C4 we had, but was a bit overkill really for us, not putting you off, but we found we didn't use as many of the controls as we needed, but it did map up a LOT of controls.
The d8b... well it's a godsend.... using up to 24 digital outs from whatever DAW, plus 24 analog channels, plus 8 fx channels on top, but it's the routing possibilities we've got now, a mix between hardware and software.... and we've got some serious kit in the studio now patching in and sounding absolute killer (including a blackface Urei 1176, a TG1 incoming this weekend, Rockruepel CompTwo, FCS P4S, a 500 series unit on the side, Sherman Filterbank, dbx compressors, XIX 19in effects, Yamaha Reverb for extra bitness, EMU e5000 strapped in to the d8b too, full routing.... pure sickness) - just how we like to do things these days (some emulations may be in the pipelines too people ) The d8b knobs are the same as the Mackie MCU and C4, so 10/10 for consistency. The d8b seems to match the original Mackie MCU / Xtender / C4 too (dark gret vs the new 'Mac friendly light metal' look)...we've got a Focusrite Liquidmix for some other tactile compresion and EQ if need be, plus the d8b has EQ and Compressor, Gate, Expander on every channel (much like Reason's channel strip so very very similar) plus can do auxilary sends or 'in the desk' FX too. Lumme... good stuff
With Waves plugins etc, been a while and we can't remember if they do map everything, we seem to think yes but also can't guarantee. It depends on the plugin itself. Papen plugins, wow fully controllable from the C4 as far as we can remember, pages and pages of them.... We know the d8b works of HUI control, so plugins are pretty much a no go directly in Cubase from the d8b (until we have a look at quick controls and MIDI up something), but that isn't the end of the world....
Saying that, we've reverted to a simpler plugin control since the extra hardware, getting away from the mouse, and use a Novation Nocturn for some Automap (although that can screw things a bit too, plugin mashup lol).
The d8b... well it's a godsend.... using up to 24 digital outs from whatever DAW, plus 24 analog channels, plus 8 fx channels on top, but it's the routing possibilities we've got now, a mix between hardware and software.... and we've got some serious kit in the studio now patching in and sounding absolute killer (including a blackface Urei 1176, a TG1 incoming this weekend, Rockruepel CompTwo, FCS P4S, a 500 series unit on the side, Sherman Filterbank, dbx compressors, XIX 19in effects, Yamaha Reverb for extra bitness, EMU e5000 strapped in to the d8b too, full routing.... pure sickness) - just how we like to do things these days (some emulations may be in the pipelines too people ) The d8b knobs are the same as the Mackie MCU and C4, so 10/10 for consistency. The d8b seems to match the original Mackie MCU / Xtender / C4 too (dark gret vs the new 'Mac friendly light metal' look)...we've got a Focusrite Liquidmix for some other tactile compresion and EQ if need be, plus the d8b has EQ and Compressor, Gate, Expander on every channel (much like Reason's channel strip so very very similar) plus can do auxilary sends or 'in the desk' FX too. Lumme... good stuff
With Waves plugins etc, been a while and we can't remember if they do map everything, we seem to think yes but also can't guarantee. It depends on the plugin itself. Papen plugins, wow fully controllable from the C4 as far as we can remember, pages and pages of them.... We know the d8b works of HUI control, so plugins are pretty much a no go directly in Cubase from the d8b (until we have a look at quick controls and MIDI up something), but that isn't the end of the world....
Saying that, we've reverted to a simpler plugin control since the extra hardware, getting away from the mouse, and use a Novation Nocturn for some Automap (although that can screw things a bit too, plugin mashup lol).
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Ok so I've got the Xtnder now and I fucking love these things. I ended up losing an auction on a C4 the other day, no big deal, another one will come around.
But the integration with Reason and the Mackie's is fucking fantastic. Locks up with the SSL 4000K really nicely. I'm not even fucking around anymore, once Propellerhead develops a GOOD punch-in and punch-out feature and a good outboard gear sending feature, I'm probably never going to use Pro Tools for music again. I just installed Reason 10 last night; it ended up being a free NFR - Propellerhead gave me a free license because of the music dealer I work at. I love it so far. I just really want Propellerhead to develop those two things so I can say 'Fuck Avid' altogether.
But the integration with Reason and the Mackie's is fucking fantastic. Locks up with the SSL 4000K really nicely. I'm not even fucking around anymore, once Propellerhead develops a GOOD punch-in and punch-out feature and a good outboard gear sending feature, I'm probably never going to use Pro Tools for music again. I just installed Reason 10 last night; it ended up being a free NFR - Propellerhead gave me a free license because of the music dealer I work at. I love it so far. I just really want Propellerhead to develop those two things so I can say 'Fuck Avid' altogether.
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