Best vocoder for an authentic "singing synth"?
Hello, everyone!
Did you miss me?
...
Too bad...
Anyway, is there any better vocoder than Reason's? The FFT mode seems pretty good, but I wouldn't mind some more accurate/smooth sound when I vocode a synth with vocals.
I also tried Grain for similar purpose, but yeah, it's too robotic sounding.
I must say, it's far more listenable than hearing our own voice, haha. I like my synth being the vocalist. Like - nah, love it!
I also noticed some sound worsening at higher sample rates - but it could just be because I simply had 192 kHz sound, while the synth and the vocals were 44100 Hz. I guess sample rates matter a lot with the vocoder in Reason.
I want it as "real" sounding as possible, but with the synthesizer's "voice" - without robotic sound, however ~ so no obvious cheap sounding vocoder. (Nope, Eifel 65 style "Blue" isn't enough.)
Did you miss me?
...
Too bad...
Anyway, is there any better vocoder than Reason's? The FFT mode seems pretty good, but I wouldn't mind some more accurate/smooth sound when I vocode a synth with vocals.
I also tried Grain for similar purpose, but yeah, it's too robotic sounding.
I must say, it's far more listenable than hearing our own voice, haha. I like my synth being the vocalist. Like - nah, love it!
I also noticed some sound worsening at higher sample rates - but it could just be because I simply had 192 kHz sound, while the synth and the vocals were 44100 Hz. I guess sample rates matter a lot with the vocoder in Reason.
I want it as "real" sounding as possible, but with the synthesizer's "voice" - without robotic sound, however ~ so no obvious cheap sounding vocoder. (Nope, Eifel 65 style "Blue" isn't enough.)
No, but that's not what I'm looking for (I think) - probably might try that, too though. Problem is with tone, which could be more accurate. Didn't try it with 192 kHz files - who knows, they could be more accurate, considering waveform detail.
Bounce vocals to midi, correct the notes, play it in the synth. Use a transient Shaper before or after the vocoder. Make the synth snappy.
Reason12, Win10
I expressed it wrongly, sorry. Melody isn't really an issue, but it's a better detail that I'd like - if possible - with less smearing and other artifacts. I want the vocoder to mimic the voice as perfectly as possible (within the range of the given synthesizer voice - meaning harmonics and such ~ like clearly, I wouldn't expect a sine wave to have as much details, as a noise for example).
Edit: the example already contained added transients before and after. Though this was limited, too for the silly loudness war back then. xD
I need crystal clean, haha!
Well, I might need to make a smoother, less edgy carrier - probably could try replacing / mixing some high frequencies with noise.
That vocoder also gave me an idea. Since earlier I was searching for Linear Phase, FIR, square shaped band splitting, which has a really accurate, clean isolation capability (then again, not so clean due to ringing and chirping - still better than IIR); And an envelope follower, I could try building a vocoder myself in Reason.
Starting out from 20 Hz, going 10 octaves until about 20 kHz, having 12 notes per octave - I'd need to make 120 splits, so at least every note has its own band. Make that less, since for vocals, I cut at least below 80 Hz and above 15 kHz.
Meh, I doubt that much would sound as accurate as Reason's vocoder's 512 FFT bands.
That, and 120 bands would ring like crazy, so after each band, I'd also need to gate the signal, to filter such artifacts out (great for general noise filtering, too).
Using that live? Haha, hell no. Would need 120 Spectrum Filters, 120 Envelope followers, 120 Gates (unless the envelope follower might take care of that to begin with - oh, right!).
Okay, enough of my crazy theory. No need to start with 120.
I could also just try googling a FIR vocoder. xD
- EnochLight
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Yes.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite | Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD
Cool! Any info on how many bands it uses max?
Also, linear phase?
I saw some praising the Fruity Vocoder, but all they say is 'they use some advanced technology that sounds better than FFT' yada yada. Should it be IIR, I run away screaming, haha.
- EnochLight
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If you’ve got a trial left for Parsec, certainly try it. I find it to sound loads better than Reason’s own BV512. YMMV.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite | Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD
I do, but I'm the person that's like "What if my life will depend on using that trial one day?! D8" xDEnochLight wrote: ↑12 Apr 2018If you’ve got a trial left for Parsec, certainly try it. I find it to sound loads better than Reason’s own BV512. YMMV.
It's on my list of things to check out, of course.
- EnochLight
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Yeah, it goes on sale sometimes so paying full price might be something you regret. Here's info on the vocoder from the manual:
Audio-In
- This lets you modify the Generator signal by modulating it from the Audio Input on the rear panel of Parsec 2; in practice a vocoder effect. The Audio Input signal is analyzed in real-time and the formants are applied to the Generator signal. The formants can also be shifted up and down in frequency before being applied to the Generator signal.
- Click or click and drag in the display to set the formant pitch shift amount and the lagging of the audio input signal. With the X parameter you set the formant shift amount, i.e. the “bassy vs. chipmunk”-effect. Range: +/-3.5 octaves. When X=50% there is no formant shift. The Y parameter controls the “lagging” of the audio input signal. At low Y values the vocoder effect is instant, and at higher Y values the audio input signal becomes delayed somewhat and also sustains for a longer time. If the Y parameter is rapidly switched to 100%, you can “freeze” a snapshot the current audio input signal and have it modulate the Generator signal infinitely. The modulation will continue for as long as there is a signal present from the Generator.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite | Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD
Thank you very much for the info!EnochLight wrote: ↑12 Apr 2018Yeah, it goes on sale sometimes so paying full price might be something you regret. Here's info on the vocoder from the manual:
Audio-In
- This lets you modify the Generator signal by modulating it from the Audio Input on the rear panel of Parsec 2; in practice a vocoder effect. The Audio Input signal is analyzed in real-time and the formants are applied to the Generator signal. The formants can also be shifted up and down in frequency before being applied to the Generator signal.
- Click or click and drag in the display to set the formant pitch shift amount and the lagging of the audio input signal. With the X parameter you set the formant shift amount, i.e. the “bassy vs. chipmunk”-effect. Range: +/-3.5 octaves. When X=50% there is no formant shift. The Y parameter controls the “lagging” of the audio input signal. At low Y values the vocoder effect is instant, and at higher Y values the audio input signal becomes delayed somewhat and also sustains for a longer time. If the Y parameter is rapidly switched to 100%, you can “freeze” a snapshot the current audio input signal and have it modulate the Generator signal infinitely. The modulation will continue for as long as there is a signal present from the Generator.
Could you add your own carrier synth, if you didn't want to use Parsec as the carrier?
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