Reason 1.0 vs 10.0 - visual comparison

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Nirude
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20 Jan 2018

And..
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3d man.

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Nirude
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20 Jan 2018

And..
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3d man.

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Nirude
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20 Jan 2018

And...

OK enough for now :)
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3d man.

stephensmattlee
Posts: 144
Joined: 05 Feb 2015

20 Jan 2018

Wow, they all look absolutely stunning Nirude!! Amazing seeing how the devices look in a completely different light visually.
Really hope Mattias and other guys from Props see these and get some ideas and inspiration of where to take Reason in the future visually-speaking [emoji16]


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ProfessaKaos
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21 Jan 2018

stephensmattlee wrote:
25 Nov 2017
This! ...this! ...this!!!

Image

Whoever did this update/render of Subtractor should help Propellerheads do the whole of Reason. Or at least they should do something similar themselves to what this person did.

Would look amazing. Keeps the classic visual style and look but brings it up to the 21st century :)



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Looks sick!!
Reason 12 & 11.3 Suite PC- Windows 10, AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, Asus ROG CROSSHAIR Dark Hero VIII, 64GB G.Skill 3600C16 RAM, 980 Pro Samsung M.2, RTX3060.

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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwNLcE ... DjhSI16TqQ

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Ahornberg
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21 Jan 2018

Just my 2 cents: Maybe in the future softsynths would come into the real world by a 3D-printer. Of course this includes the need of 3D-printers that are able to print all that electronic components inside a real synth.

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devilfish
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22 Jan 2018

stephensmattlee wrote:
25 Nov 2017
This! ...this! ...this!!!

Image

Whoever did this update/render of Subtractor should help Propellerheads do the whole of Reason. Or at least they should do something similar themselves to what this person did.

Would look amazing. Keeps the classic visual style and look but brings it up to the 21st century :)



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Amazing !

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Carly(Poohbear)
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22 Jan 2018

Ahornberg wrote:
21 Jan 2018
Just my 2 cents: Maybe in the future softsynths would come into the real world by a 3D-printer. Of course this includes the need of 3D-printers that are able to print all that electronic components inside a real synth.
Maybe the next step is to 3d print these and then just add the backend pots and sliders and use them like a midi controller that is hooked into reason... :-D :thumbup:

scratchnsnifff
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23 Jan 2018

Nirude wrote:
20 Jan 2018
And...

OK enough for now :)
Spectra!!!! Don’t even XD I’ve been craving for that one to arrive!
Mayor of plucktown :evil:

antic604

24 Jan 2018

Ok, so that's really embarassing how a "hobbyist" can create awesome renditions of Reason devices, while Propellerhead - who's getting paid for this - are not even touching the subject...

At least come out and say something like "we hear you guys, we're looking into improving the experience for high-DPI / 4K users"

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aeox
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24 Jan 2018

antic604 wrote:
24 Jan 2018
Ok, so that's really embarassing how a "hobbyist" can create awesome renditions of Reason devices, while Propellerhead - who's getting paid for this - are not even touching the subject...

At least come out and say something like "we hear you guys, we're looking into improving the experience for high-DPI / 4K users"
It's low res and outdated GUI should match it's low quality and aliased sound :D

antic604

24 Jan 2018

aeox wrote:
24 Jan 2018
It's low res and outdated GUI should match it's low quality and aliased sound :D
Is that why most music I hear from Reason is hip-hop and EDM? Vinyl crackles and screechy sounds go well with "low quality and aliased" ;) :D

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aeox
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24 Jan 2018

antic604 wrote:
24 Jan 2018
aeox wrote:
24 Jan 2018
It's low res and outdated GUI should match it's low quality and aliased sound :D
Is that why most music I hear from Reason is hip-hop and EDM? Vinyl crackles and screechy sounds go well with "low quality and aliased" ;) :D
They sure do :thumbs_up: it's the new lofi!

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Psuper
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24 Jan 2018

antic604 wrote:
24 Jan 2018
Ok, so that's really embarassing how a "hobbyist" can create awesome renditions of Reason devices, while Propellerhead - who's getting paid for this - are not even touching the subject...

At least come out and say something like "we hear you guys, we're looking into improving the experience for high-DPI / 4K users"
Its always been that way, Propellerhead don't care much about what their customers say (although I got a "questionairre" from them yesterday for the first time in the 11+ years I've owned Reason, so there's hope however it seemed more like "Please tell us you like it the way it is").

I honestly believe Propellerheads are unable to code the core app anymore than basic stuff - there's been too many huge gaps missing in their backend and options for too many years for it not to be true, especially when you compare the constant patch notes, fixes, and additions of any other significant DAW worth its salt.
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

scratchnsnifff
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Joined: 21 Sep 2016

25 Jan 2018

I get confused when people say that the props can’t update the core coding of Reason? Is that even possible? Haha iv always imagined a file that has the existing code and the ability to add and take away, idk though not my specialty. Iv been noticing this topic has been gaining popularity, it would be cool if Reason got a graphics update but I have not the first clue as to how hard that would be to implement:p
Mayor of plucktown :evil:

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Psuper
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25 Jan 2018

scratchnsnifff wrote:
25 Jan 2018
I get confused when people say that the props can’t update the core coding of Reason? Is that even possible? Haha iv always imagined a file that has the existing code and the ability to add and take away, idk though not my specialty. Iv been noticing this topic has been gaining popularity, it would be cool if Reason got a graphics update but I have not the first clue as to how hard that would be to implement:p
In a nutshell, a team hired at Propellerhead initially wrote the Reason code and compiled it. Once a code is compiled, it can't easily be "decompiled" if at all - you have to change the source code then recompile it. Its the reason Open source is so powerful a medium and in many cases superior to proprietary code - everyone has the source code they can analyze adjust and build upon.

Now I'm sure Propellerhead has the original source code, however updating it would require someone who knows the code, or at least willing to dive in and learn it. Because we see so little being done with the app back-end since R6 (audio in), I believe they cherry pick parts they are somewhat capable of learning and working on, however since R6 they've mostly just added bloat in the form of devices.
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

djs
Posts: 98
Joined: 29 Jan 2018

29 Jan 2018

stephensmattlee wrote:
25 Nov 2017
This! ...this! ...this!!!

Image

Whoever did this update/render of Subtractor should help Propellerheads do the whole of Reason. Or at least they should do something similar themselves to what this person did.

Would look amazing. Keeps the classic visual style and look but brings it up to the 21st century :)



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I could imagine using this with touch screen. Anyone know if Reason has touch screen capability?

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Carly(Poohbear)
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29 Jan 2018

djs wrote:
29 Jan 2018
stephensmattlee wrote:
25 Nov 2017
This! ...this! ...this!!!

Image

Whoever did this update/render of Subtractor should help Propellerheads do the whole of Reason. Or at least they should do something similar themselves to what this person did.

Would look amazing. Keeps the classic visual style and look but brings it up to the 21st century :)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I could imagine using this with touch screen. Anyone know if Reason has touch screen capability?
I used it on my touch screen laptop, the laptop was not really man enough for serious Reason stuff however the touch screen part I could really get use to..

antic604

30 Jan 2018

Psuper wrote:
25 Jan 2018
In a nutshell, a team hired at Propellerhead initially wrote the Reason code and compiled it. Once a code is compiled, it can't easily be "decompiled" if at all - you have to change the source code then recompile it. Its the reason Open source is so powerful a medium and in many cases superior to proprietary code - everyone has the source code they can analyze adjust and build upon.

Now I'm sure Propellerhead has the original source code, however updating it would require someone who knows the code, or at least willing to dive in and learn it. Because we see so little being done with the app back-end since R6 (audio in), I believe they cherry pick parts they are somewhat capable of learning and working on, however since R6 they've mostly just added bloat in the form of devices.
I can't imagine a professional company "working" like that. Even if there are no original coders around, the code base should be by now sufficiently documented so that it can be at least maintained and updated with new OS releases, etc. Just looking at their LinkedIn page they seem to have quite a few developers and are hiring new ones.

No, my take is that they rather think it does what it has to do well, considering the "idea" behind the software. There's very few things that you can't do in Reason, other things are obvious choices in how they were implemented and the fact that other DAWs do it differently is just that - a different approach / choice. Just looking at my own "most wanted features list":
- keep FX automation lane in the track of the instrument it belongs to - why? if Reason is an emulation of hardware rack, you'd have to automate the FX in separate sequencer,
- group tracks into folders - same thing as above, you have sends & busses, but they don't magically "group" the devices themselves, do they?
- automation curves - again, same thing and you can record yourself tweaking the knobs / sliders like "the real thing"; it's not like Bezier curves make your music better :)
- multi-clip editing - same stuff, be happy we're not forcing you to input your patterns via a 2-line LED-screen and a knob to change values ;) :D
- flexibility in arranging the views (working areas), high-res GUI - it's scary how few people really care about this,

So, as a company why would I spend time & money doing any of the above, if they don't fit into the overall vision for the software or there's very small demand? For all we know, the cash inflow from existing users upgrading to new versions & buying REs / refills is enough to keep the company afloat, pay the bills and salary checks and they don't care for nothing more. Obviously the question would be how sustainable this model is, with a ever-changing and extremely competitive DAW landscape.

I really wonder how Reason looks like for a teen or 20 year old? I guess it's a mixture of "WTF?" and "oh, that's adorable" :)

antic604

30 Jan 2018

djs wrote:
29 Jan 2018
I could imagine using this with touch screen. Anyone know if Reason has touch screen capability?
Surface Pro 4 user here - no multi touch and things are to tiny, even at 200% Windows scaling.

BTW, this is how it's done: https://www.bitwig.com/en/15/bitwig_1_3.html but considering Reason's "virtual rack" paradigm, I don't think we'll ever get there.

JRJulius
Posts: 26
Joined: 17 Jan 2018

30 Jan 2018

I think it’s worth weighing in on this. I’m not a developer but I work closely with the product managers at a software company. Managing a product roadmap is a balance between updates to address minimum needs and keep up with your industry, updates to address client wants and asks, updates to address your own “cutting edge” vision, and basic quality of life updates.

Then you have to filter that vision through the executive level, who have their own vision for where things should go. Then you have to filter that vision through your development resources, which are also split with software maintenance and whatever other products the company offers. And all the while, the competition is changing and user priorities are changing and operating systems are changing and musical trends are changing...

It becomes especially complicated when you get into UI because now, in addition to user expectations, you’re dealing with accessibility issues. That’s before you even consider the current state of the UI — redesigning Ableton Live to utilize vector scaling is a much different project than doing the same for the Reason Rack. It’s a massive, massive endeavour for the designers to move the Rack from skeuo bitmap to something an average computer could render on the fly, then for the developers to actually code it, then for the documentation team to record all the changes, then for QA to work out all the bugs.

Not to say that it wouldn’t be worthwhile, but you’re maybe talking about 100% resource allocation for six months to fix something that only bothers a small subset of users. Personally, I don’t care about pixelated font so long as the devices follow a similar design logic — I would much rather they implement ghost-looping or add MPE support. But I’m using a 13” laptop, whereas someone with a huge 4K screen might be far more bothered by it. If you’ve got a beefy GPU, on-the-fly 3D UI rendering would be a great touch whereas it would completely hog my system resources.

The product manager needs to consider all of these factors and more, and then sell their decisions to the rest of the company. So I guess my point is, don’t take it personally if the product roadmap doesn’t match your priorities — it’s a game of compromise and if they could do everything you want them to, they certainly would.

WongoTheSane
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30 Jan 2018

JRJulius wrote:
30 Jan 2018
The product manager needs to consider all of these factors and more, and then sell their decisions to the rest of the company. So I guess my point is, don’t take it personally if the product roadmap doesn’t match your priorities — it’s a game of compromise and if they could do everything you want them to, they certainly would.
Quite a sensible view, well said.

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Psuper
Posts: 524
Joined: 29 May 2016

30 Jan 2018

antic604 wrote:
30 Jan 2018
Psuper wrote:
25 Jan 2018
In a nutshell, a team hired at Propellerhead initially wrote the Reason code and compiled it. Once a code is compiled, it can't easily be "decompiled" if at all - you have to change the source code then recompile it. Its the reason Open source is so powerful a medium and in many cases superior to proprietary code - everyone has the source code they can analyze adjust and build upon.

Now I'm sure Propellerhead has the original source code, however updating it would require someone who knows the code, or at least willing to dive in and learn it. Because we see so little being done with the app back-end since R6 (audio in), I believe they cherry pick parts they are somewhat capable of learning and working on, however since R6 they've mostly just added bloat in the form of devices.
I can't imagine a professional company "working" like that. Even if there are no original coders around, the code base should be by now sufficiently documented so that it can be at least maintained and updated with new OS releases, etc. Just looking at their LinkedIn page they seem to have quite a few developers and are hiring new ones.

No, my take is that they rather think it does what it has to do well, considering the "idea" behind the software. There's very few things that you can't do in Reason, other things are obvious choices in how they were implemented and the fact that other DAWs do it differently is just that - a different approach / choice. Just looking at my own "most wanted features list":
- keep FX automation lane in the track of the instrument it belongs to - why? if Reason is an emulation of hardware rack, you'd have to automate the FX in separate sequencer,
- group tracks into folders - same thing as above, you have sends & busses, but they don't magically "group" the devices themselves, do they?
- automation curves - again, same thing and you can record yourself tweaking the knobs / sliders like "the real thing"; it's not like Bezier curves make your music better :)
- multi-clip editing - same stuff, be happy we're not forcing you to input your patterns via a 2-line LED-screen and a knob to change values ;) :D
- flexibility in arranging the views (working areas), high-res GUI - it's scary how few people really care about this,

So, as a company why would I spend time & money doing any of the above, if they don't fit into the overall vision for the software or there's very small demand? For all we know, the cash inflow from existing users upgrading to new versions & buying REs / refills is enough to keep the company afloat, pay the bills and salary checks and they don't care for nothing more. Obviously the question would be how sustainable this model is, with a ever-changing and extremely competitive DAW landscape.

I really wonder how Reason looks like for a teen or 20 year old? I guess it's a mixture of "WTF?" and "oh, that's adorable" :)
Every professional company, if they don't have the original programmers of the core app in top positions, work like that. However those same companies typically have a consistent team constantly working with the code improving it and training other hired developers to do so (hence the massive amount of patch notes you see in any serious DAW) .

Propellehead almost never work on the core program (just cherry-pick an item here or there every release as I noted). They have a very small team who obviously develop instruments and devices, certainly not the core program.. There's simply too many items that have not been addressed in the slightest and only one of a couple possible reasons which include my original points, or simple incompetence. That a majority of users haven't asked for it is undoubtedly not one of those reasons. It never was more obvious than in their official forums they shut down due to incompetence on their end. That one move purposely destroyed an invaluable wealth about their own creation - knowledge, resources, and incredible feedback (which was ignored until it reached monumental proportions and not always even then). It was after that shutdown I decided always look deeper with this company, and not automatically assume them the benefit of the doubt. I see ineptitude at multiple levels of management, still love Reason for what it is, and hope for what it should be.
Reason needs to DAW.viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7504985

antic604

30 Jan 2018

JRJulius wrote:
30 Jan 2018
I think it’s worth weighing in on this. I’m not a developer but I work closely with the product managers at a software company. Managing a product roadmap is a balance between updates to address minimum needs and keep up with your industry, updates to address client wants and asks, updates to address your own “cutting edge” vision, and basic quality of life updates.
But isn't the problem that many don't see them doing any of those or - at the very least & going by v10 alone - that they only focus on their vision but it's not nowhere near "cutting edge"?
Last edited by antic604 on 30 Jan 2018, edited 1 time in total.

antic604

30 Jan 2018

Psuper wrote:
30 Jan 2018
Propellehead almost never work on the core program (just cherry-pick an item here or there every release as I noted). They have a very small team who obviously develop instruments and devices, certainly not the core program.. There's simply too many items that have not been addressed in the slightest and only one of a couple possible reasons which include my original points, or simple incompetence. That a majority of users haven't asked for it is undoubtedly not one of those reasons. It never was more obvious than in their official forums they shut down due to incompetence on their end. That one move purposely destroyed an invaluable wealth about their own creation - knowledge, resources, and incredible feedback (which was ignored until it reached monumental proportions and not always even then). It was after that shutdown I decided always look deeper with this company, and not automatically assume them the benefit of the doubt. I see ineptitude at multiple levels of management, still love Reason for what it is, and hope for what it should be.
Well, I hope you're wrong because otherwise that's a very bleak picture :(

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