Reason 10 announced!
- chimp_spanner
- Posts: 2932
- Joined: 06 Mar 2015
I quite like the new interfaces. Although they are chunkier than we are used to. The first thing I thought when I saw them was “hm...could almost be an iPad synth”. Makes ya think
Of course it’s also possible that screen resolutions are just higher now and they were naturally drawn to a cleaner and more spaced out design as a result of this. But my money is on Europa and Grain turning up in Reason for iPad. Which, of course, I have no reason to believe exists beyond my own personal wants
Of course it’s also possible that screen resolutions are just higher now and they were naturally drawn to a cleaner and more spaced out design as a result of this. But my money is on Europa and Grain turning up in Reason for iPad. Which, of course, I have no reason to believe exists beyond my own personal wants
But just hear me out on this one.
The Malstrom comb filter with resonance has got some pretty gnarly high pitch crackles going on when doing sweeps, maybe this is just the flaw that someone is looking for in their sound. Not me personally, but maybe someone
Last edited by aeox on 25 Sep 2017, edited 1 time in total.
Sounds pretty good to me. Need to compare the Malstroem with Thor, Nostromo, Red Etch and so on...
Reason12, Win10
I've concluded that once I find the BPM of the audio I'm working on (via some tedious external method) and set the project tempo to match, THEN import the audio onto the sequencer, Reason's slice edit is actually pretty good. It just needs variable sensitivity.
I think it's Dr. OctoRex that needs the overhaul, starting with the integration of all Slice Edit mode features into the device, so I don't have to drop the .rex file onto the sequencer and open it in Slice Edit every time I want to try adjusting the timing of one particular hit in a loop, etc.
There's no reason not to update any of the older devices - just have a legacy compatibility switch on the back panel that's automatically engaged when a loaded project is from an earlier version of Reason.
I think it's Dr. OctoRex that needs the overhaul, starting with the integration of all Slice Edit mode features into the device, so I don't have to drop the .rex file onto the sequencer and open it in Slice Edit every time I want to try adjusting the timing of one particular hit in a loop, etc.
There's no reason not to update any of the older devices - just have a legacy compatibility switch on the back panel that's automatically engaged when a loaded project is from an earlier version of Reason.
To be fair a single monolithic song file keeps things simple and portable. Remember Reason was originally designed to be able to easily share very compact song files between users over the internet (back in the days of 56k modems). It’s very easy to lose things when each song project generates a myriad of different folders that need to be actively kept organised by the user. Logic recently changed to using self contained project files after using a complex clusterfuck of folders for many years.ireground wrote: ↑24 Sep 2017The worst thing in Reason, by far, is the workflow, especially the sequencer. It's always been unusable, but it feels way more painful in 2017. Here's just a short list of features that I can't believe still haven't been implemented (not only sequencer related):
Selecting and adjusting more than one volume knob at a time
Ability to zoom a track vertically more than we can do now
Markers
Video support (even if very basic)
Cursor coming back to the position where it started when playback is stopped
Keyboard shortcut for splitting a clip instead of having to switch between two tools every time
Changing position of a track in the sequencer should be reflected in the mixer
Track folders
And the worst: Huge project file.
The project file shouldn't be self contained. We should have a smaller project file that references the audio clips, just like about any other DAW or video editing app out there does. A lot of people use cloud backup services nowadays. That means that if I'm on the later stages of a big project, I've saved my project, then I change the volume of a track by half a dB let's say, and save again, I'll have to re upload the whole file, which sometimes can be over 1 GB. I get that the Props want to keep the whole process as simple as possible, but do they really think we're smart enough to handle a program like Reason but too dumb to manage a folder with the project files? It might not seem to be a big deal for most people, but for me, it's a deal breaker. And it's one of the reasons why I only do small projects now, usually without any audio.
The devs should definitely focus on the workflow and the organization (in a all three main windows) aspects in the next upgrade, even if it means skipping the content. I'll probably buy the upgrade to 10 anyway, but for one single purpose, to make mostly 10-15 second jingles. For that, it's amazing. You get some loops, the player devices, etc. Create only a few tracks and you have only a few devices in the rack. Easy to manage, great for doing quick stuff. Basically, I see Reason as a big bundle of plugins with a very basic way of putting the sound they produce together. I can't imagine doing a full blown project in this mess of a sequencer.
I dunno it’s like the original graphic designer for Reason left the company or something. Things went downhill from around version 7 or 8 onwards and that then extended to all the new devices they started releasing after. The current flat design GUI just looks unrefined and unfinished. The mixer and the rack have a completely different design language to the rest of the program. And the transport bar is supposed to be flat but has some weird perspective thing going on - you know those weird borders between the different sections. I have no problem with flat interfaces as long as they are well designed and done well.JiggeryPokery wrote: ↑23 Sep 2017
I don't know. Compared to all the other PH Reason synths, stock or RE, even the original v1 skin for Parsec, the GUI's for both Europa and Grain, are ... I don't know. Something is off about them, they look underdeveloped—as Fieldframe and others have noted—to the extent that the What's New in Reason 10 image is still a version without the device name on it*.
____
*as of 30 hours after the page was published... no doubt this will be fixed on Monday and anyone reading this post on Tuesday will think I'm talking nonsense, although I'm aware that's usually hard to differentiate from anything else I post
- TritoneAddiction
- Competition Winner
- Posts: 4234
- Joined: 29 Aug 2015
- Location: Sweden
Interesting. For me it's the other way around. Where does Europa get it right and Thor gets it wrong?
Thor has always looked like a mess to me with all the sections spread out randomly. And the only way to somewhat make sense of it all is to follow a bunch of arrows pointing everywhere.
It's a nice synth capable of many things but I've never liked working with it because of how it looks.
Europa to me looks clean and focused and pretty inviting. It looks like a dummy like me can understand the basics of it within the first few minutes of trying it, which I appreciate greatly in any device.
I know I'm in the minority, but I've never liked Thor's UI. It's so busy, there's so much of it, it's so small, there's so much variation, and it just feels like a can of Thor spaghetti that's been tipped out on my screen. I never use it.
Europa seems cleaner and more focused, BUT, it's so RED! I don't wanna be staring at that much bright red. It'll send me all Jack Torrance.
I'm not a fan of the cheap red plastic knobs, but that's just me.
eXpanse and VK-2 are still my favourite bits of design inside Reason, along with the D16 effects. I also really like Spire's dark incarnation.
Europa seems cleaner and more focused, BUT, it's so RED! I don't wanna be staring at that much bright red. It'll send me all Jack Torrance.
I'm not a fan of the cheap red plastic knobs, but that's just me.
eXpanse and VK-2 are still my favourite bits of design inside Reason, along with the D16 effects. I also really like Spire's dark incarnation.
- chimp_spanner
- Posts: 2932
- Joined: 06 Mar 2015
I think on closer inspection the main difference between Europa and previous PH devices is that it looks like software. Pretty software, no doubt. But traditionally in Reason everything looks like it’s screwed in place. Little details like bevels, grills, panels, etc.
I think Europa is a move away from this. Like look at the pitch wheel range indicator on Thor. It’s a little glass display. The spinner buttons are buttons. Now on Europa it’s way more flat. Which seems to be a general design trend right now anyway. There are areas on the interface that are just "there". You can't see where they're attached to the body of the device or anything. Curiously there's an inset for the top panel, but not for others. Not 100% now I feel about it tbh. Modern is good. But I also love a bit of skeuomorphism. Even if apparently developers don’t haha.
Either way like I said, it looks good! But if you drill down to the super fine details it is somewhat of a departure from their normal stuff.
I think Europa is a move away from this. Like look at the pitch wheel range indicator on Thor. It’s a little glass display. The spinner buttons are buttons. Now on Europa it’s way more flat. Which seems to be a general design trend right now anyway. There are areas on the interface that are just "there". You can't see where they're attached to the body of the device or anything. Curiously there's an inset for the top panel, but not for others. Not 100% now I feel about it tbh. Modern is good. But I also love a bit of skeuomorphism. Even if apparently developers don’t haha.
Either way like I said, it looks good! But if you drill down to the super fine details it is somewhat of a departure from their normal stuff.
- JiggeryPokery
- RE Developer
- Posts: 1176
- Joined: 15 Jan 2015
That's strawman, Mattias. He's talking about knobs, and you're trying to compare the cost of knobs alone to that of a complete hardware unit?
A quick search suggests a pack of four costs less than a tenner in some places. That's pretty far from expensive.
https://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/rogan-buchla/
I don't think anyone's denying the knobs used on Europa are high-quality parts - I know you wouldn't use bad components just to save a few pennies. I just prefer the chunky black Moog/Boss type. I've still got a little bag of red plastic knobs in my DIY pedal drawer, so I'm in no position to critique taste.
I like the EHX style mini faders.
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- Moderator
- Posts: 1851
- Joined: 14 Sep 2015
- Location: Paris, France
There are some people here claiming the UI doesn't look real enough and others claiming they don't like the knobs because of the material they are made out of...
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- Moderator
- Posts: 1851
- Joined: 14 Sep 2015
- Location: Paris, France
I think that's the main advantage of including RadPiano and Synchronous: they are now available to patch makers.It might be of limited interest for the piano, but Synchronous in combis, wow...TritoneAddiction wrote: ↑25 Sep 2017One thing that's good about making instruments native Reason devices rather than normal rack extensions is that most Reason users will eventually own them. Therefor there will most likely be more tutorials and refills made for them. It will just be more info and discussions about them overall I think.
I don't think most people have thought about this. Even the most popular REs don't even come close to the amount of search hits that the native devices get.
Who knows, maybe Europa will become the new Thor for Reason.
I hope it didn't seem like we all skipped over this, moneykube. Sending you a forum hug.
- chimp_spanner
- Posts: 2932
- Joined: 06 Mar 2015
Googled Buchla modules.
Ended up looking at all the modules.
Asked myself if financing a modular system would be worth it.
Realised I already have one in Reason.
Financial crisis averted.
Still pretty though!
Red is for Russia. Europa should be blue with gold. If the god's girl is meant, we can be thankful it is not pink!
Reason12, Win10
- AttenuationHz
- Posts: 2048
- Joined: 20 Mar 2015
- Location: Back of the Rack-1
Not at all it certainly calmed me downed a tad joeyjoeyluck wrote: ↑24 Sep 2017Well believe it or not, I get hate mail about being too positive I constantly get accused of being a fanboy that praises everything that Propellerhead does. But I suppose all of my criticisms get overlooked because they lack a large dose of pessimism and drama.AttenuationHz wrote: ↑24 Sep 2017
I understand where you're coming from but do you here anyone complaining about people being positive?
Case in point: I made a post in this thread about 12 pages back about why this version probably isn't for me. But it gets overlooked. I guess it's a rather calm and reasonable statement of opinion that didn't put anyone else on the defensive. I didn't upgrade right away with R8 or R9 either. Yet, I seem to always get these hateful PMs and emails from people about being too positive and optimistic and worshipping Propellerhead. The Internet is a weird and interesting world.
Just made too much sense.
It is not too much of an ask for people or things to be the best version of itself!
It is strawman. I just meant that nobody questions the quality or design of Buchla modules, even though the knobs are cheap.JiggeryPokery wrote: ↑25 Sep 2017That's strawman, Mattias. He's talking about knobs, and you're trying to compare the cost of knobs alone to that of a complete hardware unit?
A quick search suggests a pack of four costs less than a tenner in some places. That's pretty far from expensive.
https://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/rogan-buchla/
Can't wait for you guys to try Europa!
- AttenuationHz
- Posts: 2048
- Joined: 20 Mar 2015
- Location: Back of the Rack-1
The dust has settled a little for me anyway. I feel some excitement with trying out the beta (if I'm accepted). Remains to be seen though still on the fence. Grain does look good first thing I'll be doing with is comparing it to Proton I think whichever one is better will probably be the deciding factor in a day 1 upgrade. Obviously point versions will be another factor in an overall upgrade though depending on what the changelog says.
Would love to see the back of the rack on the new devices the lack of the back is a little worrying.
Would love to see the back of the rack on the new devices the lack of the back is a little worrying.
It is not too much of an ask for people or things to be the best version of itself!
Pretty excited about the new drums and loops.
I think that has always been missing from the factory bank, enough drum hits and loops.
I think that has always been missing from the factory bank, enough drum hits and loops.