Propellerhead introduces Layers synth.

[Oquasec]

Those interested in learning the tools in Reason can do so.
Those who aren't, don't have to do so.
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Those who can and have, will continue to do so.
Those who didn't bother, have something still.
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As a techno producer, I fail to see the necessity in the Rack extension. It is a useful utility no matter which way you go about it, but I simply have no need to get it.
I'd use the built in modules over it, because that is what I prefer to use and opinion is opinion.
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I've made some interesting timbres using the built in modules that made me rethink not using them in the first place :]

[EnochLight]

I wonder if Gretsch, Fender, Gibson, etc wrestle with this much ballyhoo when they release a classic series guitar based on a popular model from the 50's, 60's, 70's...

As a child of the 80's, though, I'm probably biased. Anything "retro-synth" - bring it on!

I do think Bitley's Fairlight stuff is brilliant, but I'd rather have it encompassed inside of a customized IDT gui/ux instead. I just don't find looking at a Combinator inspiring these days.

[WillyOD]

I just read the mail title and I thought we were getting a cool layering feature for the sequencer

[selig]

I wonder if Gretsch, Fender, Gibson, etc wrestle with this much ballyhoo when they release a classic series guitar based on a popular model from the 50's, 60's, 70's...

As a child of the 80's, though, I'm probably biased. Anything "retro-synth" - bring it on!

I do think Bitley's Fairlight stuff is brilliant, but I'd rather have it encompassed inside of a customized IDT gui/ux instead. I just don't find looking at a Combinator inspiring these days.

^^THIS^^

I didn't get Reason 2.5 because it was innovative (I DID get Absynth because it was innovative, around the same time). I got Reason because it was an inexpensive "all-in-one" music making package, and specifically to replace my Sample Cell (with NNXT) when I upgraded to a computer that didn't have a PCI slot that supported it. With Reason I got a software sampler AND a bunch of other useful stuff, and immediately fell in love with the creative vibe Reason evoked for me. Have been using it as my primary music creation tool ever since (2003).

But "innovative"? Naw, I don't expect innovation per-se from the Props. What I WOULD love is if they focused more on streamlining the basic music creation process, since that's how I primarily use their software.
Since adding VST support to Reason, I've got access to all the 'innovative' stuff I could ever want!

[NekujaK]

I wonder if Gretsch, Fender, Gibson, etc wrestle with this much ballyhoo when they release a classic series guitar based on a popular model from the 50's, 60's, 70's...

As a child of the 80's, though, I'm probably biased. Anything "retro-synth" - bring it on!

I do think Bitley's Fairlight stuff is brilliant, but I'd rather have it encompassed inside of a customized IDT gui/ux instead. I just don't find looking at a Combinator inspiring these days.

^^THIS^^

I didn't get Reason 2.5 because it was innovative (I DID get Absynth because it was innovative, around the same time). I got Reason because it was an inexpensive "all-in-one" music making package, and specifically to replace my Sample Cell (with NNXT) when I upgraded to a computer that didn't have a PCI slot that supported it. With Reason I got a software sampler AND a bunch of other useful stuff, and immediately fell in love with the creative vibe Reason evoked for me. Have been using it as my primary music creation tool ever since (2003).

But "innovative"? Naw, I don't expect innovation per-se from the Props. What I WOULD love is if they focused more on streamlining the basic music creation process, since that's how I primarily use their software.
Since adding VST support to Reason, I've got access to all the 'innovative' stuff I could ever want!

Agreed. It's just that the $70/$100 price point for Layers seems out of touch with the reality of today's market. Or maybe it's just out of touch with what I am personally willing to pay for such a device

[marcuswitt]

Although LAYERS's GUI isn't a true beauty, I got to say that I like that pragmatically designed user interface because it allows to get nice results quickly without being 'forced' to tweak too many knobs and buttons. And sound wise I got nothing to complain about this RE. It sounds fantastic. Imagine what you can do with four of these RE's combined in a Combinator. This thing is pure fun to me. Well done, PPH !

[apostrophedave]

This doesn't really fit within Propellerhead's usual style of product.

you mean apart from radical piano and radical keys which layer instruments together? or any of the a-list RE's that seem to be aimed at less technical people? this seems to be exactly what they are doing with this... taking a refill and repackaging it so its easier for people to get some quick sounds without messing with combinators and routing up different instruments into a line mixer etc etc

[chimp_spanner]

Yeah I mean, I get it. I've had a little play with the demo; but it's still not for me. It feels just complex enough to be fiddly, but not complex enough to really get me where I wanna be. The patches are okay but ultimately they feel sampled and 80s synth music is all about the slight unpredictability of oscillators detuning, wobbling, big, fat, stacked; all the ingredients that combine to create a really lush sound. Just not there for me.

Really don't mean to be negative. I think the price is the biggest surprise. There are some absolutely fantastic REs in the shop ranging from like, 9-20 bucks. So to come in at 99 (without discount) is, I think, a mistake. Especially when you compare it to previous PH offerings at the same price point. I don't mean any disrespect to anyone who worked on this, though!

IMHO it could be made way better with the addition of some features like

• Optional random phase/sample start
• A unison mode or at least tuning spread between the layers
• Note offset for each of the trigger steps (so basically four independent arps - there's a lot of wasted room that could be used for these extra controls)
• A built in chorus - distortion is very un-80s!
• A prettier GUI. Sounds shallow but, to say this has the PH name on it it really doesn't match the quality of A-List, or Parsec, etc. and it's hugely important to the 'psychology' of music making!

Just some things to think about

[selig]

^^THIS^^

I didn't get Reason 2.5 because it was innovative (I DID get Absynth because it was innovative, around the same time). I got Reason because it was an inexpensive "all-in-one" music making package, and specifically to replace my Sample Cell (with NNXT) when I upgraded to a computer that didn't have a PCI slot that supported it. With Reason I got a software sampler AND a bunch of other useful stuff, and immediately fell in love with the creative vibe Reason evoked for me. Have been using it as my primary music creation tool ever since (2003).

But "innovative"? Naw, I don't expect innovation per-se from the Props. What I WOULD love is if they focused more on streamlining the basic music creation process, since that's how I primarily use their software.
Since adding VST support to Reason, I've got access to all the 'innovative' stuff I could ever want!

Agreed. It's just that the $70/$100 price point for Layers seems out of touch with the reality of today's market. Or maybe it's just out of touch with what I am personally willing to pay for such a device

yea, and I wasn't even commenting on the device itself or the price - probably not something I'm all that into myself… but it's free to try, so I'll give it a spin for sure!

[miscend]

I think the price point is the main problem here. It's too high. It should be about 30 bucks.

Even though it's cheaper than similar vintage synthesiser romplers like UVI Vintage Vault
https://www.uvi.net/vintage-vault-2

And IK Syntronik another synth rompler
http://www.ikmultimedia.com/mobile/products/syntronik/

[Oquasec]

Tbh I thought Reason was gonna get overlapping in tracks feature when I saw the title.

[Miss Controllerism]

this rack extension is ridicolous.... Get arturia V collection instead ... way better

[jayhosking]

I'm looking forward to trying this RE over the weekend.

I've read through the complaints on this thread, but a lot of them seem to sum up to "we already have / can create these sounds." I get that. This isn't for you, clearly, and there are more robust or versatile ways for you to get these sounds (bravo to some of you for having the actual synths!). But I don't have these sounds or samples, and don't have the money or space for the actual synths in my tiny apartment. And I would much rather use the workflow of a RE over a refill or, all other things being equal, a VST. So this might be a good choice for me.

But just for curiosity's sake, is there an alternative at this price point that sounds just as good, has this variety of vintage synths, and is just as quick to use? Arturia V was mentioned above, but that really seems like an unfair comparison when it's priced at $500. Yes, Solaris and Kraft can get you some similar sounds to these, but I find that when I use those REs, I always tinker them into a modern/contemporary sound. I'm guessing that the limitation of this device, in a sense, preserves the vintage sound. If it's anything like ReTron, another simple RE I love, I'm really looking forward to it.

[mark999]

This is a very nice instrument from Propellerheads.
It is easy to use, and sounds great. It has a lot of desirable sounds that would be hard to collect and time consuming to layer manually. The problem for me is the price... it just seems too expensive, it really should be half the price, or, it should be included free with Reason 10.

To all these die hard underground sound designers crying about lack of tweakability and connectivity, etc. .. you need to realize that Propellerheads can't just cater to YOU only. They need to please everyone from beginner to advanced, and since geeks make up only a percentage of Reason users, they can't cater to geeks only with every release.

Reason is not just for geeks, and there are many people out there like me who appreciate well designed simplicity that inspires creativity.

I love the Reason Players for example. I don't need to learn to play chords and I can sound like a master.
Similarly, I don't need to hunt down samples or refills of classic synths because it's nicely packaged for me in a simple usable interface like Layers.

Propellerheads, don't get discouraged by all the negative comments here, Layers is very nice product and it sounds great, just consider dropping the price! Thanks.

[Oquasec]

Reason was never just for geeks. That's like saying the exact same thing about protools.
Propellerhead didn't need to make this, but they did anyways.
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Tweakers do not care, as this does not affect propellerhead negatively.
Tweakers will continue to do what they do regardless
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There's thousands of plugin out there to use, find stuff you like and the rest is mute.

[Marco Raaphorst]

Edit - yeah, PinkNoise were involved

So i wonder why there was no mention of it, since it took the community all of an hour to figure this out for ourselves. i wonder what this will do to AM3 sales?

The Pinknoise logo can be seen on the back of the device.

[Marco Raaphorst]

To eliminate confusion (though it's been mentioned already) It's basically a Pink Noise RE. This doesn't really fit within Propellerhead's usual style of product.

No, Pinknoise has licensed the samples, Propellerhead created this RE.

[Faastwalker]

I like it. I have a soft spot for these kinds of sounds. This is an easy way to get them. Looks very quick & instant. Sometimes you want that over a deep synthesis engine & a bit of work to get the sounds you need. I love the GUI. Propellerheads GUI's are always very well done I think.

On the downside it's a little disappointing that it appears to be basically a Refill packaged up as an RE. I've never been a fan of Refills - I've only ever bought about three compared to a stack of RE's. I'd take an RE over a Refill any day but maybe not at this price. Maybe at the intro price as the Refill as about the same price I believe.

Another disappointment is that I thought we might see something more interesting from Propellerhead that showed a desire to forge ahead with the RE format. Ernst talked very specifically about this in a tiny section of the 'Reason 9.5 – VST in Reason' promo video. This is NOT it, clearly.

[WeLoveYouToo]

its funny this came out because i was just looking for an 80's synth vst/refill.
a majority of the time, i just want to be able to load up 80s sounding instruments, be they sampled or emulated and not deal with oscillators and envelopes etc... so the idea of this appeals to me, but at the same time wbf is also 99$ so that sounds like where i should put my money.
does anyone with experience with wbf know if there are master-ready patches so to speak? what i mean is, its nice to have authentic emulation, but what i could really use to save time (and endless indecisive a/b sessions) would be patches that are not faithful emulations of synths, but patches that are (spiritually) faithful emulations of post production/mixing stage synth sounds, meaning chorus/compression/etc already applied

[Oquasec]

As a guy who literally knows how sound works...All that futuristic crap has been here since transformers.
When you have a fundamental understanding of how sound works you realize that "hey, this shit is done with that" over time.

When you study how synths work, and how each fader & knob functions you realize that hey, it's gonna be the same exact shit it's always been because that's how sound works

[Zac]

As a guy who literally knows how sound works...All that futuristic crap has been here since transformers.
When you have a fundamental understanding of how sound works you realize that "hey, this shit is done with that" over time.

When you study how synths work, and how each fader & knob functions you realize that hey, it's gonna be the same exact shit it's always been because that's how sound works

Yes he did write that. Wow.

[CaliforniaBurrito]

Edit: don't want to derail with political humor.

[Oquasec]

My bad nagger, there's no loopholes for what they tried to pull.
I'm gonna be cracking down on those fuckers starting today.

[Carly(Poohbear)]

just because they release an IDT made with a partner.

Is it an IDT device? as they usually only have Gate \ Note and this one has other CV's..

[WongoTheSane]

just because they release an IDT made with a partner.

Is it an IDT device? as they usually only have Gate \ Note and this one has other CV's..

I think the limitations on IDT are on Audio In/Out, not on CV In/Out.