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Gorgon
Posts: 1233
Joined: 11 Mar 2016

18 Jun 2017

Ostermilk wrote:
18 Jun 2017
Actually in all fairness LearnReason's forums have dropped the lame content and the design is more coherent than this one as it stands so perhaps Matt is about to edge in front in the most relevant Reason community stakes, now that would be a turnabout.
Yeah, that will happen at about the same time when he releases his 909 Kong synth only refill.
"This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit."

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selig
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Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

18 Jun 2017

Gorgon wrote:
18 Jun 2017
Ostermilk wrote:
18 Jun 2017
Actually in all fairness LearnReason's forums have dropped the lame content and the design is more coherent than this one as it stands so perhaps Matt is about to edge in front in the most relevant Reason community stakes, now that would be a turnabout.
Yeah, that will happen at about the same time when he releases his 909 Kong synth only refill.
HA!!! Indeed… ;)
Selig Audio, LLC

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jonheal
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18 Jun 2017

This is all pretty depressing. I've never contributed much in the way of technical value here, but I have enjoyed reading others' posts, and I've learned quite a bit about Reason in the process, too. I took a six month break myself — to remodel our kitchen (which is turning out like crap, by the way) — and now I return only to find things apparently semi-imploding.
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

Ostermilk
Posts: 1535
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

18 Jun 2017

selig wrote:
18 Jun 2017
Gorgon wrote:
18 Jun 2017
Ostermilk wrote:
18 Jun 2017
Actually in all fairness LearnReason's forums have dropped the lame content and the design is more coherent than this one as it stands so perhaps Matt is about to edge in front in the most relevant Reason community stakes, now that would be a turnabout.
Yeah, that will happen at about the same time when he releases his 909 Kong synth only refill.
HA!!! Indeed… ;)
HA!!! Exactly

When the people running the forum start acting like grandiose 'milk monitors' thinking that they are the important part of the forum at the expense of the community they invariably become objects of ridicule.

It certainly looks like you guys are playing catch-up with Matt just now, pushing garbage nobody is interested in down the sidebar, in fact the parallels are becoming eerily similar.

"Look at my web skillz and be grateful to me everyone"

http://www.reasonforums.com/forum.php

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Gorgon
Posts: 1233
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18 Jun 2017

Ostermilk wrote:
18 Jun 2017
It certainly looks like you guys are playing catch-up with Matt just now, pushing garbage nobody is interested in down the sidebar, in fact the parallels are becoming eerily similar.

http://www.reasonforums.com/forum.php
Similar eh? Gee, I wonder if that's because most forums use templates which sort of look alike. Could that be it? No, it's copy-catting! Yes, we're so jealous of Matts forum. And his Kong sound design skills.

Let's see:

Reasonforums:

Threads 774 Posts 3,464 Members 5,309

Reasontalk:

Total posts 161168 • Total topics 12847 • Total members 5293

Court's adjourned.
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Gorgon
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18 Jun 2017

selig wrote:
18 Jun 2017
HA!!! Indeed… ;)
Did you know that this refill will be FREE?
"This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit."

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selig
RE Developer
Posts: 11685
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Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

18 Jun 2017

Ostermilk wrote:
selig wrote:
18 Jun 2017
Gorgon wrote:
18 Jun 2017
Ostermilk wrote:
18 Jun 2017
Actually in all fairness LearnReason's forums have dropped the lame content and the design is more coherent than this one as it stands so perhaps Matt is about to edge in front in the most relevant Reason community stakes, now that would be a turnabout.
Yeah, that will happen at about the same time when he releases his 909 Kong synth only refill.
HA!!! Indeed… ;)
HA!!! Exactly

When the people running the forum start acting like grandiose 'milk monitors' thinking that they are the important part of the forum at the expense of the community they invariably become objects of ridicule.

It certainly looks like you guys are playing catch-up with Matt just now, pushing garbage nobody is interested in down the sidebar, in fact the parallels are becoming eerily similar.

"Look at my web skillz and be grateful to me everyone"

http://www.reasonforums.com/forum.php
We don't always agree but I always see your point. Until now, that is. Guess we'll end on that note. Best of luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Selig Audio, LLC

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jonheal
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Location: Springfield, VA, USA
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18 Jun 2017

Gorgon, I don't know why you have to express yourself in such a smart-assed manner so frequently. But I reckon hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet empowers you. I say some dickish things sometimes myself, too, but I've got my name out there. If I annoy someone to the breaking point, then I reckon they can look me up, come to my house and punch me in the face if they see fit.

Anonymous nasty posts on the Internet, I am quite sure, contribute to a huge portion of strife in the World on small and large scales alike.

Anyway ... I'm not sure exactly what the end goal is for the owners and mods of this site. For me, I am interested in a low-BS place where the smart people hang out so I can poach their knowledge ... and maybe at some point in the distant future, know enough to help others. If it takes ads to pay the bills, that's fine with me. But the content is the thing. For me, the ultimate example of the kind of site I'm talking about is Muff Wiggler.

... And Uncle Osty, you're too hard on Kenni, et al.

Maybe everyone needs to take a chill pill. :puf_smile:
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

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Kenni
Site Admin
Posts: 1245
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
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18 Jun 2017

Ostermilk wrote:
selig wrote:
18 Jun 2017
Gorgon wrote:
18 Jun 2017
Ostermilk wrote:
18 Jun 2017
Actually in all fairness LearnReason's forums have dropped the lame content and the design is more coherent than this one as it stands so perhaps Matt is about to edge in front in the most relevant Reason community stakes, now that would be a turnabout.
Yeah, that will happen at about the same time when he releases his 909 Kong synth only refill.
HA!!! Indeed… ;)
HA!!! Exactly

When the people running the forum start acting like grandiose 'milk monitors' thinking that they are the important part of the forum at the expense of the community they invariably become objects of ridicule.

It certainly looks like you guys are playing catch-up with Matt just now, pushing garbage nobody is interested in down the sidebar, in fact the parallels are becoming eerily similar.

"Look at my web skillz and be grateful to me everyone"

http://www.reasonforums.com/forum.php
Gotta say I take a bit offense to that.

I don't spend about 20 hours a week on reasontalk related stuff to push something down people's throats. I'd rather finish more songs and do that with my music :)

I'm trying to accommodate as many "wants and needs" as possible. That includes the experience for the large amount of people that seldom post here. We do have about 25,000 people coming through here every month.

A large part of those visitors are old. See, this forum attracts a fairly mature user on average compared to other sites where people socialize. Users between 34 and 54 years of age. One of the things I've heard a lot is that the readability could be better. I tried to focus on that a lot.

I'm a horrible web site designer, believe me. I didn't push this design to show off, I did it to make it more pleasant to come here and to give us more options as a team. I'm sorry I missed you as a target user. As you might have figured out by now, it's difficult to make everybody happy.

We did push this design only 2 days ago. I'm constantly trying to improve things here, and we're actually listening to and talking about all the points you guys post here. Comments like this is very demotivating though, so we'll see how much time I actually want to invest changing the nitty gritty details. After all, I take the silence of the majority as a token of appreciation.

Sendt fra min SM-G950F med Tapatalk

Kenni Andruszkow
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jonheal
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18 Jun 2017

Kenni, and all helping you, I appreciate the work you put in, and pleasing everyone is certainly nigh to impossible. Yes, some folks have certainly gone ballistic over the new design. Reminds me of the old PUF days when users would amass outside of Propellerhead's virtual gates with their virtual pitchforks and torches every time they were presented with a perceived lackluster release.

Honestly, I think just a few tweaks would greatly improve the experience of the new design ... but of course that would be addressing only my personal perspective.

Good web design is difficult, that's for sure.
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

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jonheal
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18 Jun 2017

Kenni, did you literally just now reduce the overall font size a bit? If so, great improvement! Even for my 59-year-old eyes. :)
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

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Kenni
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18 Jun 2017

jonheal wrote:Kenni, did you literally just now reduce the overall font size a bit? If so, great improvement! Even for my 59-year-old eyes. :)
Haven't changed a thing :)

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Kenni Andruszkow
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jonheal
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18 Jun 2017

Maybe I just leaned farther back in my chair. :)
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

Ostermilk
Posts: 1535
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

18 Jun 2017

jonheal wrote:
18 Jun 2017
Gorgon, I don't know why you have to express yourself in such a smart-assed manner so frequently. But I reckon hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet empowers you. I say some dickish things sometimes myself, too, but I've got my name out there. If I annoy someone to the breaking point, then I reckon they can look me up, come to my house and punch me in the face if they see fit.

Anonymous nasty posts on the Internet, I am quite sure, contribute to a huge portion of strife in the World on small and large scales alike.

Anyway ... I'm not sure exactly what the end goal is for the owners and mods of this site. For me, I am interested in a low-BS place where the smart people hang out so I can poach their knowledge ... and maybe at some point in the distant future, know enough to help others. If it takes ads to pay the bills, that's fine with me. But the content is the thing. For me, the ultimate example of the kind of site I'm talking about is Muff Wiggler.

... And Uncle Osty, you're too hard on Kenni, et al.

Maybe everyone needs to take a chill pill. :puf_smile:
I agree that I am being a bit hard on Kenni here to be fair, but honestly I'd been communicating about the troll that was the first inspiration for this thread and yet a couple of weeks later you and I were involved in a thread with the exact same character.

No less than four Mods made posts on that particular thread while it was happening and you and I got accused by the trolling flamer of forming a 'homophobic' posse, only for Selig to then wade in and pontificate in his customary Capt. Obvious style that 'Homophobia' has no place here, wtf!!! Yet calling someone homophobic without any foundation at all was looking like it was acceptable. One mod was behaving like Pollyanna as is his normal MO bless him and one reminded me that the way to get heard was to use the 'report button'.

Heck if there was any communication between the mods he'd have been aware that I was already more than familiar with the report button over the last couple of weeks. The only mod to intervene that had some insight into what was going on and was prepared to call it straight was Wongo The Sane who had also previously taken the time to PM me and express his concerns about what has been happening with regard to the recent trolling.

It was only this morning after expressing my displeasure that the offending thread was still there and after explaining why I was still pissed off about the situation did I learn that the 'offender' had since been removed.

So yeah Kenni it is a bit unfair for you to bear the brunt of my anger ensuing from that situation when all I'm really pissed off about with the new layout really is that infernal sidebar. So for that I do apologise as I know how much work you put in.

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jonheal
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Location: Springfield, VA, USA
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18 Jun 2017

Maybe the sidebar could be "retracted" by default to a sort of "minimized" state and then when you hover over it, it would slide out. Not sure how difficult that would be to implement ...
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

Ostermilk
Posts: 1535
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

18 Jun 2017

selig wrote:
18 Jun 2017


We don't always agree but I always see your point. Until now, that is. Guess we'll end on that note. Best of luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Don't sweat it. We don't always agree it's true, and as is true with this particullar statement, I quite often don't see your point.

Unless of course I'm missing something.... :roll:
Last edited by Ostermilk on 18 Jun 2017, edited 1 time in total.

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joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 11029
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18 Jun 2017

Ostermilk wrote:
18 Jun 2017
It was only this morning after expressing my displeasure that the offending thread was still there
Which thread? It should be gone. I took care of it and sent you a PM regarding it yesterday at 9am EST.

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selig
RE Developer
Posts: 11685
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

18 Jun 2017

Ostermilk wrote:
18 Jun 2017
jonheal wrote:
18 Jun 2017
Gorgon, I don't know why you have to express yourself in such a smart-assed manner so frequently. But I reckon hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet empowers you. I say some dickish things sometimes myself, too, but I've got my name out there. If I annoy someone to the breaking point, then I reckon they can look me up, come to my house and punch me in the face if they see fit.

Anonymous nasty posts on the Internet, I am quite sure, contribute to a huge portion of strife in the World on small and large scales alike.

Anyway ... I'm not sure exactly what the end goal is for the owners and mods of this site. For me, I am interested in a low-BS place where the smart people hang out so I can poach their knowledge ... and maybe at some point in the distant future, know enough to help others. If it takes ads to pay the bills, that's fine with me. But the content is the thing. For me, the ultimate example of the kind of site I'm talking about is Muff Wiggler.

... And Uncle Osty, you're too hard on Kenni, et al.

Maybe everyone needs to take a chill pill. :puf_smile:
I agree that I am being a bit hard on Kenni here to be fair, but honestly I'd been communicating about the troll that was the first inspiration for this thread and yet a couple of weeks later you and I were involved in a thread with the exact same character.

No less than four Mods made posts on that particular thread while it was happening and you and I got accused by the trolling flamer of forming a 'homophobic' posse, only for Selig to then wade in and pontificate in his customary Capt. Obvious style that 'Homophobia' has no place here, wtf!!! Yet calling someone homophobic without any foundation at all was looking like it was acceptable. One mod was behaving like Pollyanna as is his normal MO bless him and one reminded me that the way to get heard was to use the 'report button'.

Heck if there was any communication between the mods he'd have been aware that I was already more than familiar with the report button over the last couple of weeks. The only mod to intervene that had some insight into what was going on and was prepared to call it straight was Wongo The Sane who had also previously taken the time to PM me and express his concerns about what has been happening with regard to the recent trolling.

It was only this morning after expressing my displeasure that the offending thread was still there and after explaining why I was still pissed off about the situation did I learn that the 'offender' had since been removed.

So yeah Kenni it is a bit unfair for you to bear the brunt of my anger ensuing from that situation when all I'm really pissed off about with the new layout really is that infernal sidebar. So for that I do apologise as I know how much work you put in.
Seems you are unhappy here to the point you feel you have to take it out on the mods, so I agree it's best for you to move on as you have suggested. OTOH, you are more than welcome to stick around and keep this conversation going - your input is appreciated by many here, myself included, because the LAST thing I want is to be hanging out with a bunch of folks that think exactly like I do!
Captain Obvious Out!
:)
Selig Audio, LLC

Ostermilk
Posts: 1535
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

18 Jun 2017

joeyluck wrote:
18 Jun 2017
Ostermilk wrote:
18 Jun 2017
It was only this morning after expressing my displeasure that the offending thread was still there
Which thread? It should be gone. I took care of it and sent you a PM regarding it yesterday at 9am EST.
Sorry my bad yesterday it was indeed. In fact almost the day before yesterday here now... ;)
Last edited by Ostermilk on 19 Jun 2017, edited 2 times in total.

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jfrichards
Posts: 1306
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Location: Sunnyvale, CA

18 Jun 2017

With Benny leaving and the weird little interchanges against the Moderators, I'd say there is something going on around here, but we don't know what it is quite yet. As a guess, I'd say there are a few big changes influencing the forum.

One is that the nature of Reason has changed. A major feature has always been the comparisons with VST and the admirable attempts of Reason-lovers to reach VST complexity for one tenth the cost (and often quite successfully). That will still be a feature of life for us poor musicians, but I don't think it will be as prominent a feature as it has been, now that VST's work inside Reason, and now that advanced Reason sound design is well-established.

Another change influencing the forum is the growth in Facebook use by Reason users. I have been very surprised at how many reason forums are on Facebook these days. I've looked up their members and even though there are some that are inflated by typical Facebook membership padding techniques, even those now seem to have real people discussing real issues. And even though they are not nearly as deep or helpful as ReasonTalk, they are improving in that direction.

I hope the moderators keep a tight control over the nasty members, or those succumbing to the temporary insanities that float though society like air-borne infections, to keep this one of the best forums in music.

Ostermilk
Posts: 1535
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

18 Jun 2017

selig wrote:
18 Jun 2017


Seems you are unhappy here to the point you feel you have to take it out on the mods, so I agree it's best for you to move on as you have suggested. OTOH, you are more than welcome to stick around and keep this conversation going - your input is appreciated by many here, myself included, because the LAST thing I want is to be hanging out with a bunch of folks that think exactly like I do!
Captain Obvious Out!
:)
Being critical of how the mods handled a situation is a far cry from 'takiing it out on them' I'm sure you can see my point on that much..' Like I was keen to point out one of them handled the situation completely appropiately.

btw be careful to watch out for the quote nesting now, I near wore out the skin on my scroll wheel getting down this far.

:mrgreen:

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jonheal
Posts: 1213
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18 Jun 2017

jfrichards wrote:
18 Jun 2017
With Benny leaving and the weird little interchanges against the Moderators, I'd say there is something going on around here, but we don't know what it is quite yet. As a guess, I'd say there are a few big changes influencing the forum.

One is that the nature of Reason has changed. A major feature has always been the comparisons with VST and the admirable attempts of Reason-lovers to reach VST complexity for one tenth the cost (and often quite successfully). That will still be a feature of life for us poor musicians, but I don't think it will be as prominent a feature as it has been, now that VST's work inside Reason, and now that advanced Reason sound design is well-established.

Another change influencing the forum is the growth in Facebook use by Reason users. I have been very surprised at how many reason forums are on Facebook these days. I've looked up their members and even though there are some that are inflated by typical Facebook membership padding techniques, even those now seem to have real people discussing real issues. And even though they are not nearly as deep or helpful as ReasonTalk, they are improving in that direction.

I hope the moderators keep a tight control over the nasty members, or those succumbing to the temporary insanities that float though society like air-borne infections, to keep this one of the best forums in music.
I don't know what people are thinking, because Facebook is awful for discussions. Plus, you're feeding the Facebook money machine. The one good thing about it you (theoretically) have to use your real name, so (theoretically) no anonymous nasty trolling and ranting.

EDIT: Well ... I poked around a couple of them, one of which I was already a member! I guess they're OK ...
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

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joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 11029
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

18 Jun 2017

jonheal wrote:
18 Jun 2017
jfrichards wrote:
18 Jun 2017
With Benny leaving and the weird little interchanges against the Moderators, I'd say there is something going on around here, but we don't know what it is quite yet. As a guess, I'd say there are a few big changes influencing the forum.

One is that the nature of Reason has changed. A major feature has always been the comparisons with VST and the admirable attempts of Reason-lovers to reach VST complexity for one tenth the cost (and often quite successfully). That will still be a feature of life for us poor musicians, but I don't think it will be as prominent a feature as it has been, now that VST's work inside Reason, and now that advanced Reason sound design is well-established.

Another change influencing the forum is the growth in Facebook use by Reason users. I have been very surprised at how many reason forums are on Facebook these days. I've looked up their members and even though there are some that are inflated by typical Facebook membership padding techniques, even those now seem to have real people discussing real issues. And even though they are not nearly as deep or helpful as ReasonTalk, they are improving in that direction.

I hope the moderators keep a tight control over the nasty members, or those succumbing to the temporary insanities that float though society like air-borne infections, to keep this one of the best forums in music.
I don't know what people are thinking, because Facebook is awful for discussions. Plus, you're feeding the Facebook money machine. The one good thing about it you (theoretically) have to use your real name, so (theoretically) no anonymous nasty trolling and ranting.

EDIT: Well ... I poked around a couple of them, one of which I was already a member! I guess they're OK ...
And Facebook has something like 3 sidebars! One on the left for navigation and two on the right for ads and such and for chat. And in the middle is a small sliver for the news and profile feeds. I manage to read and respond just fine there. But when I come to ReasonTalk from Facebook, even with the one sidebar, it feels great. Not to say we aren't looking into adjustments, but that's just the way I feel about it.

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jonheal
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18 Jun 2017

A dedicated platform for Reason discussions is definitely superior than Facebook. Facebook is OK, not optimal.

I reckon many of us are a little discombobulated with Reason becoming more like the other guys. And the fact that Reason is no longer "owned" by Propellerhead is also disconcerting. And, there are a few people here that insist on being a bit ... un-nice. And then there's the general state of the World these days.

All of this, plus life's regular day-to-day foibles maybe has everyone a bit more on edge than usual.

But we gotta stick together folks. Making music (or in my case, noise) can be a refuge. And Reason's still the best way to do it, yes? :)

Here's my plan going forward: I'm not going to waste my energy getting aggravated at aggravating posts. Nor will I get sucked into any more arguments, nor will I lecture anyone on their behavior like I did above. I am simply going to ruthlessly block. Out of sight, out of mind. I hope Normen and Benedict are lurking and will consider doing the same.
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

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QVprod
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18 Jun 2017

Ostermilk wrote:
18 Jun 2017
was looking like it was acceptable. One mod was behaving like Pollyanna as is his normal MO bless him and one reminded me that the way to get heard was to use the 'report button'.

Heck if there was any communication between the mods he'd have been aware that I was already more than familiar with the report button over the last couple of weeks. The only mod to intervene that had some insight into what was going on and was prepared to call it straight was Wongo The Sane who had also previously taken the time to PM me and express his concerns about what has been happening with regard to the recent trolling.

It was only this morning after expressing my displeasure that the offending thread was still there and after explaining why I was still pissed off about the situation did I learn that the 'offender' had since been removed.
I think it's important to mention here that we mods live in different countries and time zones. We're also all volunteers with lives outside of this forum. We won't always see things exactly when they happen, even if we posted in the same thread. I for one did not know of anything until the following morning. That's why I mentioned reporting. Also, I did hint to you about the situation being handled by saying "sometimes we move in silence". I suppose maybe that was too subtle? It seemed like the best response without igniting the situation further seeing as it was a public response. Further more, yes we do communicate as a team and sometimes dealing with people requires time and strategy. We can't have users thinking we have personal vendettas against them.

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