"Ernst explains VST decision" Props blogpost

[Bunja]

Sounded like a politicions response so they didnt include vst support because the new investors leaned on them?

Idk, I don't think "the investors" deem themselves smarter in terms of DAWs than the Props, I guess both the investors and adding VST support is more of an expression of the Props themselves trying to move forcibly in another direction.

Haha, I always knew it would be interesting to announce the investment shortly before VST announcement. For context, when I became product manager I pretty much set the fire that lead to VST support and that was way before I knew anything about investors. The big reason for adding it was quite simple, really: most user feedback and research pointed to it being really important and that you guys wanted it. Now, here we are.

Cheers for thaf your a nice swedish meatball

[Oquasec]

As a guy who's a rewire main, it's nice that reason is getting more and more features that beef up it's standalone capabilities whether or not you use it standalone. I am thinking rewire and the other methods were made while they were figuring out the right way to go about this recent solution.

[Gorgon]

"in kahoots".

I love that expression because it makes me think of owls.

Makes me think of an old C64 game called "Law of the West". The prehistoric version of Red Dead Redemption.

[Andy]

Sounded like a politicions response so they didnt include vst support because the new investors leaned on them?

Idk, I don't think "the investors" deem themselves smarter in terms of DAWs than the Props, I guess both the investors and adding VST support is more of an expression of the Props themselves trying to move forcibly in another direction.

Haha, I always knew it would be interesting to announce the investment shortly before VST announcement. For context, when I became product manager I pretty much set the fire that lead to VST support and that was way before I knew anything about investors. The big reason for adding it was quite simple, really: most user feedback and research pointed to it being really important and that you guys wanted it. Now, here we are.

I don't doubt this, as they say "Correlation does not imply causation". Now, please lead the charge for RE SDK improvement, dark theme SSL, cables on the front via a modular Eurorack style environment in the Rack. Please

[siln]

Ernst = daily vlog like Casey

[QVprod]

There’s been an enormous explosion of cool plugins over the last few years. As a musician it’s wonderful to see so many developers unleashing their creativity in designs of all shapes and forms. And we just didn’t want Reason musicians to miss out on that. It was that simple.

This would have been a thing to say about 10 years ago.

Also right now it's more cpu efficent for me to load up reaper, load vsts into that and rewire reason. Rather than simply load vsts into Reason. Hope that changes with the 29th may release.

Yet again, as stated in the notes for the beta, you can't compare the beta performance with any other daw. It's for testing and finding bugs. It's not meant to be CPU efficient. Of course the release version will perform considerably better.

[QVprod]

As a guy who's a rewire main, it's nice that reason is getting more and more features that beef up it's standalone capabilities whether or not you use it standalone. I am thinking rewire and the other methods were made while they were figuring out the right way to go about this recent solution.

Rewire was made before both Reason and VST instruments existed.

[Oquasec]

As a guy who's a rewire main, it's nice that reason is getting more and more features that beef up it's standalone capabilities whether or not you use it standalone. I am thinking rewire and the other methods were made while they were figuring out the right way to go about this recent solution.

Rewire was made before both Reason and VST instruments existed.

Didn't get into producing till 09-10 so that news surprises me pretty badly lmao.

[EnochLight]

As a guy who's a rewire main, it's nice that reason is getting more and more features that beef up it's standalone capabilities whether or not you use it standalone. I am thinking rewire and the other methods were made while they were figuring out the right way to go about this recent solution.

Rewire was made before both Reason and VST instruments existed.

Didn't get into producing till 09-10 so that news surprises me pretty badly lmao.

ReWire has been around since the ReBirth days (1998).

[miscend]

Hints at an update of the IDT SDK.

That was more of an announcement than hint.

[miscend]

The blog post doesn't explain their decision at all. And apart from VST3 I don't think the underlying technology behind VSTs has changed at all. A buggy VST will still be a buggy VST.

[kuhliloach]

*installs the two free iZotope VST's, VST2 versions only of course...

[phaza]

There’s been an enormous explosion of cool plugins over the last few years. As a musician it’s wonderful to see so many developers unleashing their creativity in designs of all shapes and forms. And we just didn’t want Reason musicians to miss out on that. It was that simple.

This would have been a thing to say about 10 years ago.

Also right now it's more cpu efficent for me to load up reaper, load vsts into that and rewire reason. Rather than simply load vsts into Reason. Hope that changes with the 29th may release.

Yet again, as stated in the notes for the beta, you can't compare the beta performance with any other daw. It's for testing and finding bugs. It's not meant to be CPU efficient. Of course the release version will perform considerably better.

Yeah, waiting to compare it after the release.

[ezelkow1]

The blog post doesn't explain their decision at all. And apart from VST3 I don't think the underlying technology behind VSTs has changed at all. A buggy VST will still be a buggy VST.

This was why the whole article was a huge eyeroll to me. VST2.4 was released in 2006. It hasnt changed since then, it hasnt been updated. Its an sdk, thats the point of the sdk. Sure vst3 made changes, but that is a different sdk version and has nothing to do with 2.4 vst's past or present. Nothing within the standard has made them more or less stable. Its always down to the users choice of vst, support a company with stable and good vst's and you will have a stable experience and vice versus, there is nothing inherently bad in vst's other than his oddball perceptions

[ShawnG]

well... one thing that has happened fairly recently has been the shift to 64 bit computing. one thing that has made MY plug in folder WAY more stable has been the fact that I no longer have scads of poorly coded or compiled freeware synthedit plugins clogging up the works. while I miss those days in some ways since it was far easier to get tons of capabilities for free, it has been a blessing in disguise that a lot of that stuff never went 64 bit.

[ravisoni]

Sounded like a politicions response so they didnt include vst support because the new investors leaned on them?

Idk, I don't think "the investors" deem themselves smarter in terms of DAWs than the Props, I guess both the investors and adding VST support is more of an expression of the Props themselves trying to move forcibly in another direction.

Haha, I always knew it would be interesting to announce the investment shortly before VST announcement. For context, when I became product manager I pretty much set the fire that lead to VST support and that was way before I knew anything about investors. The big reason for adding it was quite simple, really: most user feedback and research pointed to it being really important and that you guys wanted it. Now, here we are.

Perhaps not, but the investment probably went by smoothly with them knowing that VSTs are in the work (as in I can only surmise that the investment terms would have looked different had VSTs not been in the pipeline). Only you guys know that, though.

[stratatonic]

.


Ernst said "cool" 4 times.


.

[ltbrunt00]

You people are crazy. VST is a good thing especially for the people that use multiple DAWS. I am pretty sure the Props will be happy that some people will spend more time using reason than their other DAW's. The more you use Reason the more you might spend money on RE's and Refills. If Reason doesn't have a particular sound, VST offers you the ability to get those sounds and stay in your favorite ecosystem. For the hardcore I would rather die than use VST then you will live happily just using RE's and refills. It is a Win Win for everybody. IMO the way the Props are handling VST is better than any other DAW I have used thus far. Knowing them they will probably redefine how VST can be used within a DAW.

I Wouldn't be surprised if the Word "Reason VST" becomes a thing. I wouldn't be surprise if Reason became the preferred DAW to use VST's in.

[mind2069]

Sounded like a politicions response so they didnt include vst support because the new investors leaned on them?

Idk, I don't think "the investors" deem themselves smarter in terms of DAWs than the Props, I guess both the investors and adding VST support is more of an expression of the Props themselves trying to move forcibly in another direction.

Haha, I always knew it would be interesting to announce the investment shortly before VST announcement. For context, when I became product manager I pretty much set the fire that lead to VST support and that was way before I knew anything about investors. The big reason for adding it was quite simple, really: most user feedback and research pointed to it being really important and that you guys wanted it. Now, here we are.

We will never know, its possible, but you will always say the politically correct thing for the company, you will always say the last version of reason was the most succesful, bla bla bla, we know how company's and their PR stunts work, but you can be right, I dought it and personally believe its all related (verdane and vst), I have no proof, it just came too much at the same time.

Its not like verdane came in for their audio/music/daw passion, they want profits, nothing else, and vst's were the only way to go to grow reason, come on here, I wasn't born yesterday

That speach of Ernst was painful to watch, but everybody changes their mind, I do to, Hey RE's are great, but they did not have the success you hoped for, and here you will probably come and say, re's are a complete and total success, the best thing ever... or something along these lines and that's why you're adding vst's

In the end, I'm glad vst's are coming, I was stating to consider other daw's because guitar amps sims never really developed to my taste (mercurial), but now its fixed

[miscend]

Then Ernst should have just admitted that he changed his mind and that he was wrong before. Some of us believed the propaganda they were telling us that VST was outdated technology and that it wouldn't work well in Reason.

[Oquasec]

Earnst musta had that bias when vst 1 was still a thing

[avasopht]

We will never know, its possible, but you will always say the politically correct thing for the company, you will always say ..

Thing is, that just creates a bit of an irrational bias against everything a company says, even when it's true.

Sure, "you will never know," but at the same time I never find unfettered skepticism to be productive, especially in discussions.

It's a bit like that conspiracy theorist sitting in the corner under his musty blanket saying, "but how do you really know they're not poisoning your water?"

[Gaja]

IIRC the story of props bias against vst was something like this: Propellerhead worked on Rebirth in some kind of collaboration with Steinberg, who apparently ripped off important parts of Propellerhead's technology to create the VSTi standard.
Please do correct me if I'm wrong.


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[Oquasec]

That would be interesting to know how all of that came to be.

[esselfortium]

When Ernst calls VST clunky outdated technology, he's referring to the VST format itself, not the plugins made for it. It's not cross-platform (so developers have to do a separate release for different platforms), not future-proofed (so you have to hope your favorite plugins are still supported years from now when your processor architecture or something changes), etc. Those are real flaws, they're just flaws that we're willing to accept the inconvenience of, in exchange for being able to use those instruments. VST plugins are basically like running a bunch of separate programs alongside your DAW, so they have more ability to do whatever they want, but with those caveats I mentioned above. It's a tradeoff.

Developers can build something great on top of a flawed or outdated technology. It doesn't mean there's anything particularly great about the technology itself. If you know what you're doing well enough, you can make amazing software for Windows 95, too.