Audio glitches

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Marco Raaphorst
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10 Feb 2017

I am sorry to bring this up many times but I am still having problems with glitches using my guitar and very simple patches in Reason. I am not able to record some screencasts using Screenflow and Reason while playing guitar using just a couple of effects without getting glitches.

I do feel that the glitches are caused by graphics, for example when I am using the screencam of my MacBook Pro. I am not having these issues with Ableton Live and I can get even lower latency values with Live.

Isn't this something which can be optimised in Reason? I have had some conversations about it with Reason support on this and they couldn't find anything that's wrong. But they are not comparing it to Live. Might also be a bit more Mac related, not sure though.
Marco Raaphorst

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Marco Raaphorst
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10 Feb 2017

Someone suggested me to read http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/08/ ... it-choices. It's an article from august 2016. And I guess they are right. The late 2016 new MacBook Pros have an integrated Intel HD Graphics 515 card. Low-tech stuff. Apple doesn't care anymore for the pro market I guess.

Super weird right? Why is Apple not making high tech MacBook Pros?
Marco Raaphorst

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tiker01
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10 Feb 2017

Marco Raaphorst wrote:Someone suggested me to read http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/08/ ... it-choices. It's an article from august 2016. And I guess they are right. The late 2016 new MacBook Pros have an integrated Intel HD Graphics 515 card. Low-tech stuff. Apple doesn't care anymore for the pro market I guess.

Super weird right? Why is Apple not making high tech MacBook Pros?
I guess if you ask this question from Apple they will tell you that they do produce high tech. In reality they simply maximising their profit by keeping the outlook the same but leaving important parts out and selling for the same amount of money. It is not just MacBook MacMini has been dumped down along with iMacs.

Allihoopa is just building their Hackintosh. Just check David Ventura's twitter. Thunderbolt is also available on Win10 desktop and laptops so there are options out there. Just not from Apple. They got carried away with making everything slimmer even if they have to sacrifice usefull features such as ports.

    
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EnochLight
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10 Feb 2017

Marco Raaphorst wrote:I am sorry to bring this up many times but I am still having problems with glitches using my guitar and very simple patches in Reason. I am not able to record some screencasts using Screenflow and Reason while playing guitar using just a couple of effects without getting glitches.

I do feel that the glitches are caused by graphics, for example when I am using the screencam of my MacBook Pro. I am not having these issues with Ableton Live and I can get even lower latency values with Live.

Isn't this something which can be optimised in Reason? I have had some conversations about it with Reason support on this and they couldn't find anything that's wrong. But they are not comparing it to Live. Might also be a bit more Mac related, not sure though.
Have you considered trying to wipe your Macbook, start clean, just install Reason, and see if the problem persists? Might be worth a try (although I realize reinstalling everything can be a PITA). Well, except for reinstalling RE's. That's easy.
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10 |  Studio One 3.5| Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 4.2 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | M-Audio Trigger Finger Pro

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Marco Raaphorst
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10 Feb 2017

EnochLight wrote:
Marco Raaphorst wrote:I am sorry to bring this up many times but I am still having problems with glitches using my guitar and very simple patches in Reason. I am not able to record some screencasts using Screenflow and Reason while playing guitar using just a couple of effects without getting glitches.

I do feel that the glitches are caused by graphics, for example when I am using the screencam of my MacBook Pro. I am not having these issues with Ableton Live and I can get even lower latency values with Live.

Isn't this something which can be optimised in Reason? I have had some conversations about it with Reason support on this and they couldn't find anything that's wrong. But they are not comparing it to Live. Might also be a bit more Mac related, not sure though.
Have you considered trying to wipe your Macbook, start clean, just install Reason, and see if the problem persists? Might be worth a try (although I realize reinstalling everything can be a PITA). Well, except for reinstalling RE's. That's easy.
Might be an idea but indeed time-consuming. And I ask myself: which OSX version should I use? This MBpro was shipped with Mavericks. I have a iPhone 6s but when using Mavericks I can forget about using shared links, AirDrop, Notes, Reminders etc.
Marco Raaphorst

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Check out my new ReFill Rockmen: https://melodiefabriek.com/blog/rockmen ... available/

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EnochLight
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10 Feb 2017

Marco Raaphorst wrote:And I ask myself: which OSX version should I use?
Well, you could try any/all, and see which one works (or not). Again, I realize it's time consuming and a PITA, but... thus is our lot in life if we choose to do music production on computers. Ugh...

Just clone your current setup so you can image it right back if you want.
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10 |  Studio One 3.5| Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 4.2 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | M-Audio Trigger Finger Pro

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Marco Raaphorst
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10 Feb 2017

EnochLight wrote:
Marco Raaphorst wrote:And I ask myself: which OSX version should I use?
Well, you could try any/all, and see which one works (or not). Again, I realize it's time consuming and a PITA, but... thus is our lot in life if we choose to do music production on computers. Ugh...

Just clone your current setup so you can image it right back if you want.
Yes feels like I am always in debug mode all the time. Bugs, issues,

I can understand why people go back to hardware. You have less to choose that's for sure.
Marco Raaphorst

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jappe
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11 Feb 2017

Marco Raaphorst wrote:I am sorry to bring this up many times but I am still having problems with glitches using my guitar and very simple patches in Reason. I am not able to record some screencasts using Screenflow and Reason while playing guitar using just a couple of effects without getting glitches.

I do feel that the glitches are caused by graphics, for example when I am using the screencam of my MacBook Pro. I am not having these issues with Ableton Live and I can get even lower latency values with Live.

Isn't this something which can be optimised in Reason? I have had some conversations about it with Reason support on this and they couldn't find anything that's wrong. But they are not comparing it to Live. Might also be a bit more Mac related, not sure though.
Hello,

my MacBook pro has two graphic chips (Iris Pro & Geforce GT 750M ), the integrated for low power consumption, and one dedicated for performance.

In case you have that too - could the problem perhaps be related to Mac switching between these chips when it determines the other one should be used?
In that case, it's possible to disable graphic card chip auto switching:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201714

Perhaps the power setting for hard drives could be an issue.

If there is some driver that locks some resource that audio needs, perhaps it's possible to see indications of that in a system log (Don't know where to look for that on Mac though). I guess look for any error message/timeout message.

Another thought is that, perhaps Reason uses the GPU for some calculations and for some reason you get interference?

Also: Is there a difference whether you run it with power plugged in/off?

Are there any other things connected that you could try disconnect and see if it has some impact? (for example running on internal audio chip instead of external audio interface)


In the old days, when this kind of interference happened on PC you would go to the motherboard and change some jumper or dip switch for the graphic card or other offending card to use another Interrupt Request number.

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EnochLight
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11 Feb 2017

jappe wrote:Another thought is that, perhaps Reason uses the GPU for some calculations and for some reason you get interference?
Reason does not utilize GPU's at all. It's specifically CPU dependent (though your other ideas, including what the OS is doing with the GPU, are excellent)! :)
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10 |  Studio One 3.5| Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 4.2 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | M-Audio Trigger Finger Pro

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jappe
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11 Feb 2017

EnochLight wrote:
jappe wrote:Another thought is that, perhaps Reason uses the GPU for some calculations and for some reason you get interference?
Reason does not utilize GPU's at all. It's specifically CPU dependent (though your other ideas, including what the OS is doing with the GPU, are excellent)! :)
Right, I remember this being discussed in some old thread,with the same conclusion.
Perhaps there's not much to gain with it,other than getting a dependency to another source of errors.

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Marco Raaphorst
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11 Feb 2017

jappe wrote:
Marco Raaphorst wrote:I am sorry to bring this up many times but I am still having problems with glitches using my guitar and very simple patches in Reason. I am not able to record some screencasts using Screenflow and Reason while playing guitar using just a couple of effects without getting glitches.

I do feel that the glitches are caused by graphics, for example when I am using the screencam of my MacBook Pro. I am not having these issues with Ableton Live and I can get even lower latency values with Live.

Isn't this something which can be optimised in Reason? I have had some conversations about it with Reason support on this and they couldn't find anything that's wrong. But they are not comparing it to Live. Might also be a bit more Mac related, not sure though.
Hello,

my MacBook pro has two graphic chips (Iris Pro & Geforce GT 750M ), the integrated for low power consumption, and one dedicated for performance.

In case you have that too - could the problem perhaps be related to Mac switching between these chips when it determines the other one should be used?
In that case, it's possible to disable graphic card chip auto switching:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201714

Perhaps the power setting for hard drives could be an issue.

If there is some driver that locks some resource that audio needs, perhaps it's possible to see indications of that in a system log (Don't know where to look for that on Mac though). I guess look for any error message/timeout message.

Another thought is that, perhaps Reason uses the GPU for some calculations and for some reason you get interference?

Also: Is there a difference whether you run it with power plugged in/off?

Are there any other things connected that you could try disconnect and see if it has some impact? (for example running on internal audio chip instead of external audio interface)


In the old days, when this kind of interference happened on PC you would go to the motherboard and change some jumper or dip switch for the graphic card or other offending card to use another Interrupt Request number.
Same here, my MacBook Pro also uses Iris Pro & Geforce GT 750M.

Have you disabled graphic card chip auto switching?

I am only using it on power adapter for serious work. I switch off internet.

In some other tread about new MacBook Pros it is mentioned it's Reason related. I can confirm this. With Live the performance is much better, lower latency and less cpu load.
Marco Raaphorst

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Check out my new ReFill Rockmen: https://melodiefabriek.com/blog/rockmen ... available/

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jappe
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11 Feb 2017

Marco Raaphorst wrote: Same here, my MacBook Pro also uses Iris Pro & Geforce GT 750M.

Have you disabled graphic card chip auto switching?

I have auto switching enabled, but I've never done any screencasting while I work with Reason.
If you disable it then it'll use the high end GPU.

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Marco Raaphorst
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11 Feb 2017

jappe wrote:
Marco Raaphorst wrote: Same here, my MacBook Pro also uses Iris Pro & Geforce GT 750M.

Have you disabled graphic card chip auto switching?

I have auto switching enabled, but I've never done any screencasting while I work with Reason.
If you disable it then it'll use the high end GPU.
Only on battery? I guess when powered it will always use the GPU.
Marco Raaphorst

Music & soundware https://melodiefabriek.com.
Check out my new ReFill Rockmen: https://melodiefabriek.com/blog/rockmen ... available/

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jappe
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11 Feb 2017

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
jappe wrote:
Marco Raaphorst wrote: Same here, my MacBook Pro also uses Iris Pro & Geforce GT 750M.

Have you disabled graphic card chip auto switching?

I have auto switching enabled, but I've never done any screencasting while I work with Reason.
If you disable it then it'll use the high end GPU.
Only on battery? I guess when powered it will always use the GPU.
It can switch off even when power plugged in. (on my machine it's defaulted to Enabled both for battery and Powered profiles)
http://www.idownloadblog.com/2016/10/22 ... switching/

Micronini
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14 Feb 2017

I am also suffering with this glitches problem without having my CPU in the red.

I stopped my wifi connexion and the glitches disappeared after a little while. Reason was playing music perfectly.

So having your Wifi off, may help. This is weird :evil:

NB : I have Reason 9.2.2 on a Mac Book Pro 2011 running Mountain Lion 16 Go 2x2 To SSD
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Marco Raaphorst
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14 Feb 2017

Micronini wrote:I am also suffering with this glitches problem without having my CPU in the red.

I stopped my wifi connexion and the glitches disappeared after a little while. Reason was playing music perfectly.

So having your Wifi off, may help. This is weird :evil:

NB : I have Reason 9.2.2 on a Mac Book Pro 2011 running Mountain Lion 16 Go 2x2 To SSD

Mmm I tried without Wifi also, but that didn't solve my issue. Will try this again. Thanks!
Marco Raaphorst

Music & soundware https://melodiefabriek.com.
Check out my new ReFill Rockmen: https://melodiefabriek.com/blog/rockmen ... available/

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jappe
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14 Feb 2017

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
Micronini wrote:I am also suffering with this glitches problem without having my CPU in the red.

I stopped my wifi connexion and the glitches disappeared after a little while. Reason was playing music perfectly.

So having your Wifi off, may help. This is weird :evil:

NB : I have Reason 9.2.2 on a Mac Book Pro 2011 running Mountain Lion 16 Go 2x2 To SSD

Mmm I tried without Wifi also, but that didn't solve my issue. Will try this again. Thanks!
Did you try disabling the graphic card auto switching?

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Marco Raaphorst
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14 Feb 2017

jappe wrote:
Marco Raaphorst wrote:
Micronini wrote:I am also suffering with this glitches problem without having my CPU in the red.

I stopped my wifi connexion and the glitches disappeared after a little while. Reason was playing music perfectly.

So having your Wifi off, may help. This is weird :evil:

NB : I have Reason 9.2.2 on a Mac Book Pro 2011 running Mountain Lion 16 Go 2x2 To SSD

Mmm I tried without Wifi also, but that didn't solve my issue. Will try this again. Thanks!
Did you try disabling the graphic card auto switching?
Not yet. Didn't take the time yet to test it.
Marco Raaphorst

Music & soundware https://melodiefabriek.com.
Check out my new ReFill Rockmen: https://melodiefabriek.com/blog/rockmen ... available/

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Marco Raaphorst
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13 Mar 2017

It all makes sense. Reason is using the wrong graphics' card!!!:
http://melodiefabriek.com/blog/audio-gl ... eason-fix/
Marco Raaphorst

Music & soundware https://melodiefabriek.com.
Check out my new ReFill Rockmen: https://melodiefabriek.com/blog/rockmen ... available/

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Soft Enerji
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13 Mar 2017

I'm sorry...........I know I'm a total **** for doing it but I've seen so many retorts go the other way.........just get a windows pc........never had a problem :-)

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EnochLight
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13 Mar 2017

Marco Raaphorst wrote:It all makes sense. Reason is using the wrong graphics' card!!!:
Don't you mean, your OS is using the wrong graphics card? Reason doesn't utilize GPU's (either integrated or not) at all, to my knowledge...
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Marco Raaphorst
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13 Mar 2017

EnochLight wrote:
Marco Raaphorst wrote:It all makes sense. Reason is using the wrong graphics' card!!!:
Don't you mean, your OS is using the wrong graphics card? Reason doesn't utilize GPU's (either integrated or not) at all, to my knowledge...
Really? So Reason is never using a dedicated GPU card? This is super strange because only GPU cards will give optimal performance using low latency audio and/or video processing.

As I mentioned in the article Live will use the Decrete card as well as any DAW should. And a video editing program like iMovie which switch to it as well.
Marco Raaphorst

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EnochLight
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13 Mar 2017

Marco Raaphorst wrote:Really? So Reason is never using a dedicated GPU card?
Not to my knowledge, and not according to what Propellerhead themselves have said in the past.
Marco Raaphorst wrote:This is super strange because only GPU cards will give optimal performance using low latency audio and/or video processing.

As I mentioned in the article Live will use the Decrete card as well as any DAW should. And a video editing program like iMovie which switch to it as well.
Integrated graphics also use CPU cycles, which Reason also uses - which may affect performance in general (including audio latency). Perhaps this is the crux if the issue? If you say that when your OS switches to non-integrated graphics, the issues seems to go away, this may have something to do with it...

I dunno' Marco - I'm just reaching for straws here. I could be totally wrong on this.
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ScuzzyEye
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13 Mar 2017

For really low latencies, yeah, the OS spending time transferring graphic data to a slower video device could result in jitter and stalls that exceed the time slice needed to keep the audio buffer filled. Reason doesn't use any fancy GPU stuff, but does have a lot of bitmapped graphics that have to be moved into the frame buffer. A video interface with more local RAM, and a faster path to that RAM will require fewer updates, and the updates will happen in less time.

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Marco Raaphorst
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13 Mar 2017

ScuzzyEye wrote:For really low latencies, yeah, the OS spending time transferring graphic data to a slower video device could result in jitter and stalls that exceed the time slice needed to keep the audio buffer filled. Reason doesn't use any fancy GPU stuff, but does have a lot of bitmapped graphics that have to be moved into the frame buffer. A video interface with more local RAM, and a faster path to that RAM will require fewer updates, and the updates will happen in less time.
Reason can use the Discrete card. I need to set it by hand. Reason should automatically choose it like any other DAW on the planet imo.
Marco Raaphorst

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Check out my new ReFill Rockmen: https://melodiefabriek.com/blog/rockmen ... available/

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