SSL Master Bus Compressor
I went through a period of always using it, but after getting an album mastered back in Feb this year, I think I over-compressed things, because the masters sounded nowhere near as good as the before/after of an earlier album of mine. So now I try to make it sound as good as possible with it off and with as less compression as I need. So do you think that if you're planning to get your music mastered by a very good engineer, that using the master compressor will give them less room to make it sound even better?
Your right when you mentioned getting your mix to sound as good as possible before you think about mastering . Some people have got use to mixing into the master bus compressor , which can work also . What i found when doing that, is when you turn the master bus compressor off the mix tends to fall apart , because the mix was using the compressor like a crutch to lean on . imo i believe its best to mix without the bus master comp , but have it in mind .
It's always my goal to give the mastering engineer less room to make it sound even better! There are cases where no mastering at all is required, if the mix is stellar enough.
But that's another subject. If you are over compressing, one solution is to not compress at all. Another is to learn how to compress BETTER.
As Djstarski alluded, go for the BEST mix possible with as LITTLE processing on all tracks as possible. Then you'll know what the mix is ACTUALLY lacking! I try to make the mix sound as great as possible, then I try some Master Compressor (with side-chain filtering so reduce the effect of the low end pumping the mix). I've almost never used more than a few dB gain reduction on the master comp, typically with slow attack and faster release and low ratio. Be SURE to use makeup gain to make the results sound exactly as loud as without the compressor - this is so you can A/B accurately and be sure you're actually doing something helpful with the compression. It's easy to be fooled by adding overall gain! More than once I've been fooled, adjusted the makeup gain so that the results were equal loudness to the original, and then decided compression wasn't actually adding anything useful after all. Don't be afraid to use compression, but also don't be afraid to NOT use compression!!!
Many mix engineers consider the SSL Master Compressor part of the mix process rather than part of the mastering process. But again, if you tend to over compress, then lay off for a few projects as you try to come to better terms with how to use compression more to your liking.
But one thing I'd say is that you can't judge your mix by how much better it sounds (or doesn't sound) after mastering - again, the best mix would be one that requires NO mastering. It happens, just not often and not at the beginning of your learning process!
But that's another subject. If you are over compressing, one solution is to not compress at all. Another is to learn how to compress BETTER.
As Djstarski alluded, go for the BEST mix possible with as LITTLE processing on all tracks as possible. Then you'll know what the mix is ACTUALLY lacking! I try to make the mix sound as great as possible, then I try some Master Compressor (with side-chain filtering so reduce the effect of the low end pumping the mix). I've almost never used more than a few dB gain reduction on the master comp, typically with slow attack and faster release and low ratio. Be SURE to use makeup gain to make the results sound exactly as loud as without the compressor - this is so you can A/B accurately and be sure you're actually doing something helpful with the compression. It's easy to be fooled by adding overall gain! More than once I've been fooled, adjusted the makeup gain so that the results were equal loudness to the original, and then decided compression wasn't actually adding anything useful after all. Don't be afraid to use compression, but also don't be afraid to NOT use compression!!!
Many mix engineers consider the SSL Master Compressor part of the mix process rather than part of the mastering process. But again, if you tend to over compress, then lay off for a few projects as you try to come to better terms with how to use compression more to your liking.
But one thing I'd say is that you can't judge your mix by how much better it sounds (or doesn't sound) after mastering - again, the best mix would be one that requires NO mastering. It happens, just not often and not at the beginning of your learning process!
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Thanks heaps Djstarski and Selig, great advice! I really love the idea of making it the best you possibly can, actually giving the mastering engineer less room, because then it's really up to you which is an empowering and freeing feeling and a great mindset to have. Honestly I love the sound of the SSL Master Compressor but I didn't want to rely on it which I probably have in the past. I'm going to use it once I have the mix in as best shape as possible. Holy f*** I love Reason
I always create with the SSL off, then when i get a good mix I like to turn it on, set the ratio to 2, slowest attack, auto release, and tweak the threshold until the needle is barely moving. For me, I get the best results when the amount of compression is barely noticeable. A wise man once said Compression is like a drug - you can be having a great time with it all night, using it excessively thinking that its really helping, but the next morning when you listen back its like Holy Sh*t what did I do to my mix!! It may resemble the audio equivalent of a wet paper bag on the sidewalk - no definition.
Haha, so true.skie wrote:I A wise man once said Compression is like a drug - you can be having a great time with it all night, using it excessively thinking that its really helping, but the next morning when you listen back its like Holy Sh*t what did I do to my mix!!
Yeah too much 'verb can definitely suck the life out of a perfectly good track!selig wrote:I like to think of compression like salt when cooking - a little brings out the natural flavor, too much and everything just tastes salty.
I guess this works for things like reverb too…
Haha that is tragic. That poor little bag.skie wrote:It may resemble the audio equivalent of a wet paper bag on the sidewalk - no definition.
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Any mastering engineer I've talked to wants at least-4dB of headroom and nothing on the master bus. I trust their opinion.
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Everyone's experience may differ!Last Alternative wrote:Any mastering engineer I've talked to wants at least-4dB of headroom and nothing on the master bus. I trust their opinion.
In my experience MEs tell you to take off any mastering, but leave any mix processing. The SSL compressor has been a part of the mix process since the 1980s. There are those who use it and those who don't - in all those years I've never had an me tell me NOT to use it, fwiw.
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I've never sent off any of my tracks to a mastering engineer so I can't comment on the best way to do that. I do everything myself to the best of my abilities.
I'm one of the people who usually mix with the SSL master bus compressor on. Maybe not for the first couple of ideas for a song but as soon as the drums and bass comes into the picture I usually turn it on. The settings might change during making of the track and sometimes I will automate the settings depending on what part of the song is played. But the amount of compression is usually pretty light. I more often then not go for a "you can feel the difference" setting rather than going for a super obvious effect.
I really don't believe in any set rules here, like "you should do that" or "you should never do that because some guy said so". I mean even professional mixers have different opinions about this. In the end it's about whatever works for you. I personally like working with stuff on the master bus during mixing: compression, saturation, EQ, stereo depth, sometimes even limiter. It doesn't mean I don't use those things on individual tracks as well.
I'm one of the people who usually mix with the SSL master bus compressor on. Maybe not for the first couple of ideas for a song but as soon as the drums and bass comes into the picture I usually turn it on. The settings might change during making of the track and sometimes I will automate the settings depending on what part of the song is played. But the amount of compression is usually pretty light. I more often then not go for a "you can feel the difference" setting rather than going for a super obvious effect.
I really don't believe in any set rules here, like "you should do that" or "you should never do that because some guy said so". I mean even professional mixers have different opinions about this. In the end it's about whatever works for you. I personally like working with stuff on the master bus during mixing: compression, saturation, EQ, stereo depth, sometimes even limiter. It doesn't mean I don't use those things on individual tracks as well.
It might be worth getting a second pair of ears to have a look at your mix before sending if off for mastering. Having another opinion is invaluable.
With that said, with your last album, did the mastering engineer say anything about the mix being too hot? How much headroom did you give him to work with.
With that said, with your last album, did the mastering engineer say anything about the mix being too hot? How much headroom did you give him to work with.
skie wrote:Yeah too much 'verb can definitely suck the life out of a perfectly good track!selig wrote:I like to think of compression like salt when cooking - a little brings out the natural flavor, too much and everything just tastes salty.
I guess this works for things like reverb too…
Last edited by miscend on 12 Nov 2016, edited 1 time in total.
It depends on the genre of music as well. On a very sparse mix you can get away with drenching things with verb. As an alternative you can use delays in place of reverb to create a sense of space - doesn't clog the mix as much.skie wrote:Yeah too much 'verb can definitely suck the life out of a perfectly good track!selig wrote:I like to think of compression like salt when cooking - a little brings out the natural flavor, too much and everything just tastes salty.
I guess this works for things like reverb too…
Just the guidelines on his website about headroom, but gave me no feedback on anything I asked. This guy is a pro who doesn't mess around with answering questions like that, so I've learned.miscend wrote:It might be worth getting a second pair of ears to have a look at your mix before sending if off for mastering. Having another opinion is invaluable.
With that said, with your last album, did the mastering engineer say anything about the mix being too hot? How much headroom did you give him to work with.
But then it's not "too much" reverb, is it?miscend wrote:It depends on the genre of music as well. On a very sparse mix you can get away with drenching things with verb.skie wrote:Yeah too much 'verb can definitely suck the life out of a perfectly good track!selig wrote:I like to think of compression like salt when cooking - a little brings out the natural flavor, too much and everything just tastes salty.
I guess this works for things like reverb too…
(Says the guy who has created entire pieces from 100% reverb returns).
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I master other synthwave artists as a side gig, and always ask them to avoid any compression or limiting on the master channel. It really limits the mastering engineer's options, and basically turns the exercise into a waste of everyone's time and of the artist's money.
If you are mastering your own stuff, then that's obviously another story altogether.
If you are mastering your own stuff, then that's obviously another story altogether.
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Hello Selig, with the sidechain do you mean to not use for instance the bass drum to dictate to compression ? If not could you elaborate in what your sidechain consist ? Also you sidechain you bus compressor with what for that purpose ?selig wrote:then I try some Master Compressor (with side-chain filtering so reduce the effect of the low end pumping the mix)
I use side chain filtering to get kick and snare to give equal gain reduction. I use the stereo imager as a high pass filter for this purpose.Voyager wrote:Hello Selig, with the sidechain do you mean to not use for instance the bass drum to dictate to compression ? If not could you elaborate in what your sidechain consist ? Also you sidechain you bus compressor with what for that purpose ?selig wrote:then I try some Master Compressor (with side-chain filtering so reduce the effect of the low end pumping the mix)
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Thanks, after some search i found the topic were you explain how you setup the master compressor sidechainselig wrote:I use side chain filtering to get kick and snare to give equal gain reduction. I use the stereo imager as a high pass filter for this purpose.Voyager wrote:Hello Selig, with the sidechain do you mean to not use for instance the bass drum to dictate to compression ? If not could you elaborate in what your sidechain consist ? Also you sidechain you bus compressor with what for that purpose ?selig wrote:then I try some Master Compressor (with side-chain filtering so reduce the effect of the low end pumping the mix)
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selig wrote:I use side chain filtering to get kick and snare to give equal gain reduction. I use the stereo imager as a high pass filter for this purpose.Voyager wrote:Hello Selig, with the sidechain do you mean to not use for instance the bass drum to dictate to compression ? If not could you elaborate in what your sidechain consist ? Also you sidechain you bus compressor with what for that purpose ?selig wrote:then I try some Master Compressor (with side-chain filtering so reduce the effect of the low end pumping the mix)
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Btw, this master compression sidechain filtering in short terms allows the compression to be more "balanced" between the low and high frequencies instead of a non-sidechain filtering which is more focused on the lows right ?
Yes, with the end goal of compressing all instruments equally. If you like a little heavy bass, the compressor will respond more to the bass and then pull everything down with it. By lowering the level of the lower frequencies, you end up compression less when the kick/bass hits, and can then get even more overall compression. Again, my goal is to have a similar amount of gain reduction on the loudest instruments, which are typically kick, snare, bass, and maybe vocals in some cases.Voyager wrote:selig wrote:I use side chain filtering to get kick and snare to give equal gain reduction. I use the stereo imager as a high pass filter for this purpose.Voyager wrote:Hello Selig, with the sidechain do you mean to not use for instance the bass drum to dictate to compression ? If not could you elaborate in what your sidechain consist ? Also you sidechain you bus compressor with what for that purpose ?selig wrote:then I try some Master Compressor (with side-chain filtering so reduce the effect of the low end pumping the mix)
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Btw, this master compression sidechain filtering in short terms allows the compression to be more "balanced" between the low and high frequencies instead of a non-sidechain filtering which is more focused on the lows right ?
There ARE cases where you may want one instrument to drive down the level of the rest of the mix, specifically a vocal, which will give the effect of the instruments getting out of the way when the vocal is present.
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Ok i understand, so the crossover frequency knob of the stereo imager act as a High pass filter amount in this case, right ?selig wrote:Yes, with the end goal of compressing all instruments equally. If you like a little heavy bass, the compressor will respond more to the bass and then pull everything down with it. By lowering the level of the lower frequencies, you end up compression less when the kick/bass hits, and can then get even more overall compression. Again, my goal is to have a similar amount of gain reduction on the loudest instruments, which are typically kick, snare, bass, and maybe vocals in some cases.Voyager wrote:selig wrote:I use side chain filtering to get kick and snare to give equal gain reduction. I use the stereo imager as a high pass filter for this purpose.Voyager wrote:Hello Selig, with the sidechain do you mean to not use for instance the bass drum to dictate to compression ? If not could you elaborate in what your sidechain consist ? Also you sidechain you bus compressor with what for that purpose ?selig wrote:then I try some Master Compressor (with side-chain filtering so reduce the effect of the low end pumping the mix)
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Btw, this master compression sidechain filtering in short terms allows the compression to be more "balanced" between the low and high frequencies instead of a non-sidechain filtering which is more focused on the lows right ?
There ARE cases where you may want one instrument to drive down the level of the rest of the mix, specifically a vocal, which will give the effect of the instruments getting out of the way when the vocal is present.
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Could we use another stereo imager after the master out to hear actually how our "pre" high pass filter is set and sound ?
There are simpler ways of having a side-chain "listen" function, at least with the way I'm running it. The obvious would be to pass the main output on to the insert return (from devices) jack, and use the "solo high band" to hear the signal feeding the side chain input. Or you could use a line mixer and program the insert to switch from the main signal to the high band signal (using the separate out on the Imager). You could also use a crossfader - many different ways to add this feature so you can hear the ACTUAL filter used for the side chain (key) input.Voyager wrote:Ok i understand, so the crossover frequency knob of the stereo imager act as a High pass filter amount in this case, right ?selig wrote:Yes, with the end goal of compressing all instruments equally. If you like a little heavy bass, the compressor will respond more to the bass and then pull everything down with it. By lowering the level of the lower frequencies, you end up compression less when the kick/bass hits, and can then get even more overall compression. Again, my goal is to have a similar amount of gain reduction on the loudest instruments, which are typically kick, snare, bass, and maybe vocals in some cases.Voyager wrote:selig wrote:I use side chain filtering to get kick and snare to give equal gain reduction. I use the stereo imager as a high pass filter for this purpose.Voyager wrote:Hello Selig, with the sidechain do you mean to not use for instance the bass drum to dictate to compression ? If not could you elaborate in what your sidechain consist ? Also you sidechain you bus compressor with what for that purpose ?selig wrote:then I try some Master Compressor (with side-chain filtering so reduce the effect of the low end pumping the mix)
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Btw, this master compression sidechain filtering in short terms allows the compression to be more "balanced" between the low and high frequencies instead of a non-sidechain filtering which is more focused on the lows right ?
There ARE cases where you may want one instrument to drive down the level of the rest of the mix, specifically a vocal, which will give the effect of the instruments getting out of the way when the vocal is present.
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Could we use another stereo imager after the master out to hear actually how our "pre" high pass filter is set and sound ?
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