THOR MkII update request

[Creativemind]

I've added a NN-Nano Oscillator and a Malstrom Oscillator to 2 empty slots on my Thor2 pic.

Wasn't sure what to go with for the Malstrom. Both Oscillators or just the one as you could add 2 Malstrom Oscillators if you so wished.

I mentioned before as well about an extra filter type in the filter section but wasn't sure what.

Maybe a Multi-Filter, which could be a Low Pass, Band Pass, Band Reject and High Pass Filter in one?

There's a 9U limit on devices in Reason, and Thor is already 9U - so any mockups would have to remain at the original size to be realized in Reason… ;(

What's 9U mean Selig?

[selig]

I've added a NN-Nano Oscillator and a Malstrom Oscillator to 2 empty slots on my Thor2 pic.

Wasn't sure what to go with for the Malstrom. Both Oscillators or just the one as you could add 2 Malstrom Oscillators if you so wished.

I mentioned before as well about an extra filter type in the filter section but wasn't sure what.

Maybe a Multi-Filter, which could be a Low Pass, Band Pass, Band Reject and High Pass Filter in one?

There's a 9U limit on devices in Reason, and Thor is already 9U - so any mockups would have to remain at the original size to be realized in Reason… ;(

What's 9U mean Selig?

Sorry, that's rack shorthand for 9 rack "Units". Reason devices can be from 1U to 9U in height, with 1U being 1.75" (inches).

[Creativemind]

Right, that sucks. Must be a way round it. Props make it larger at 10U or 11U or make Thor smaller and make the rack scalable or the ability to make rack devices half or full screen depending on if they're half or full rack devices perhaps?

[selig]

Right, that sucks. Must be a way round it. Props make it larger at 10U or 11U or make Thor smaller and make the rack scalable or the ability to make rack devices half or full screen depending on if they're half or full rack devices perhaps?

What has been requested by RE developers is the ability to create "tabbed" interfaces. That would allow you to have for example an oscillator page, a filter page, a modulation page (LFO/ENV), etc.

Of course, the disadvantage of such a UI is you can't see everything at once, but there are plenty of synth plugins that have used this approach in the past, so probably not a deal breaker for most!

[Creativemind]

I don't think much could be added to Malstrom could it?

I heard there's something in the way it's programmed which prevent it from being made granular. Maybe it could have a unison voice spread?

Subtractor could have a third oscillator and unison voice spread. Maybe it's own effects:- reverb, delay, flanger?

[Creativemind]

Imagine the modulation effects using the mod matrix that we could achieve if they gave us a Thor 2 and it's own reverb, compressor, EQ, flanger, phaser and unison voice spread. Wow is all I can say.

With those effects, a new filter, a 4th oscillator slot (don't see why we couldn't have more than 9U rack units, is this to emulate real life? doesn't have to does it) an nn-nano oscillator and possibly a Malstrom oscillator and some more wavetables, Thor could probably be one of the best synths of any daw be honest.

[riemac]

Imagine the modulation effects using the mod matrix that we could achieve if they gave us a Thor 2 and it's own reverb, compressor, EQ, flanger, phaser and unison voice spread. Wow is all I can say.

With those effects, a new filter, a 4th oscillator slot (don't see why we couldn't have more than 9U rack units, is this to emulate real life? doesn't have to does it) an nn-nano oscillator and possibly a Malstrom oscillator and some more wavetables, Thor could probably be one of the best synths of any daw be honest.

Yes, please Propellerhead make it come true!

[Creativemind]

Imagine the modulation effects using the mod matrix that we could achieve if they gave us a Thor 2 and it's own reverb, compressor, EQ, flanger, phaser and unison voice spread. Wow is all I can say.

With those effects, a new filter, a 4th oscillator slot (don't see why we couldn't have more than 9U rack units, is this to emulate real life? doesn't have to does it) an nn-nano oscillator and possibly a Malstrom oscillator and some more wavetables, Thor could probably be one of the best synths of any daw be honest.

Yes, please Propellerhead make it come true!

I know mate. Imagine.

I suppose the guy from Sonic Charge would need to be contacted as he made the Malstrom if they were to give us a Malstrom oscillator.

For people that know more than me though, I'm guessing some of this may be achievable by slapping a Thor into a Combinator and doing some wizardy?

[tumar]

I'd love to see the nnxt nano as an oscillator type in Thor, as well as something similar to a Malstrom Osc type.

This x100. Eventually input for external source acting as oscillator.

P.S When Black Friday sale hit the shop, I downloaded trial of Parsec2. I suspected Props treated it like new better Thor (especially with all those Thor waves imported). So- I thought - trial is just formality. Oh my God, it's so weak! I'm so dissapointed and I'm sure I won't buy Parsec synth. Still waiting for good Thor competitor

[selig]

Imagine the modulation effects using the mod matrix that we could achieve if they gave us a Thor 2 and it's own reverb, compressor, EQ, flanger, phaser and unison voice spread. Wow is all I can say.

Not sure I follow - you can already do all of that in Reason (and more) due to it's modular architecture.

The ONLY advantage would be (and I don't think this is what you meant) if these were added at the poly voice level, but I'm not sure why anyone would want a reverb/EQ/Flanger/phase for every voice (and unison voice spread would be redundant at the voice level). The compressor, OTOH, would possibly be useful coming after the filter if using super high resonant sweeps (a limiter would be more useful there IMO).

But otherwise, you'd be limited to the included effects (which would have to be fairly simple) if using the mod matrix, but the bigger issue would be that there's not enough room in the UI to add all of these additional FX without getting rid of something else, right?

Again, just patch them after Thor and go nuts (it's the "Reason way" IMO) - no need for them to appear in the mod matrix, but if so, then simply hook them up to the 3/4 inputs/outputs and bob's your uncle).

Hopefully I've not totally mis-understood your intention with this suggestion…

[Creativemind]

Not at the poly voice level I don't think although not completely sure what you mean by that. Just effects on the synth itself, voice spread would just be another option. Most VST's such as Nexus, Dune 2 and Sylenth have Reverb and Phasing effects etc built in. Don't see why Thor can't.

As for linking other effects up, you need to know what you're doing, and I just want to create music, not start playing around to achieve something. I think the wiring is excellent but if I'm amidst my creative flow, I don't want to start flipping to the back of the rack and wiring stuff up, if you don't know what you're doing, you can be reading the manual and on you tube videos for like half an hour, which when you're getting into a song (as it's happened to me many times before with sidechain compression or ducking (and I'm always forgetting how to do it on Reason)) then you totally lose interest in the song you're working on, or I do at least.

As for the back of the rack (excuse me if there's one already) but a good sticky on this site would be a sticky perhaps under the Tutorials and Techniques section on how to wire things up or use the wiring on the back of the rack including a video or 2 too. I know CV is Control Voltage and there's 2 types of ports or sockets on the back of the rack, CV and Audio. Anyway, don't want to go off topic for this thread.

Also just noticed Expanse has 6 effects on it. Although probably basic maybe.

EDIT - Oh you mean at the Poly level as opposed to adding effects to an instrument or as an insert or send?

[Marco Raaphorst]

What if all the modules of Thor are put in half rack units with separate CV outputs for all parameters? To make it useful you probably need something like Combinator MKII though...

[selig]

Not at the poly voice level I don't think although not completely sure what you mean by that. Just effects on the synth itself, voice spread would just be another option. Most VST's such as Nexus, Dune 2 and Sylenth have Reverb and Phasing effects etc built in. Don't see why Thor can't.

As for linking other effects up, you need to know what you're doing, and I just want to create music, not start playing around to achieve something. I think the wiring is excellent but if I'm amidst my creative flow, I don't want to start flipping to the back of the rack and wiring stuff up, if you don't know what you're doing, you can be reading the manual and on you tube videos for like half an hour, which when you're getting into a song (as it's happened to me many times before with sidechain compression or ducking (and I'm always forgetting how to do it on Reason)) then you totally lose interest in the song you're working on, or I do at least.

As for the back of the rack (excuse me if there's one already) but a good sticky on this site would be a sticky perhaps under the Tutorials and Techniques section on how to wire things up or use the wiring on the back of the rack including a video or 2 too. I know CV is Control Voltage and there's 2 types of ports or sockets on the back of the rack, CV and Audio. Anyway, don't want to go off topic for this thread.

Also just noticed Expanse has 6 effects on it. Although probably basic maybe.

EDIT - Oh you mean at the Poly level as opposed to adding effects to an instrument or as an insert or send?

There's no "reason" why Thor can't add more modules, except for space (which is the deal breaker IMO) and because in Reason you don't absolutely need to add them as you do with the afore mentioned plugins. My point was also the comment about having them in the Mod Matrix, which is ALSO too small to support more modules IMO. You can do SO much more with external FX - want convolution, add RV7000. Want Saturation, choose WHICH saturation to add rather than being stuck with a single device/module. Want reverb, there are an embarrassment of choice in Reason.

I just find that with synths like Antidote, I RARELY use their build in FX but would practically kill for more synth features in that baby…

And yes, the main advantage to having access to stuff in the Mod Matrix is poly modules (and audio rate modulation, if that's important to you).

And as for linking FX up, that's a job for the patch creators IMO, and why Combinators are so powerful in Reason. Many folks don't want to break the flow to do this stuff, and I can appreciate that - even though I know how to do it, when I have an idea in my head it's the LAST thing I want to do. I'd rather open a favorite Combinator with all that good stuff already happening for me.

[fieldframe]

There's no "reason" why Thor can't add more modules, except for space (which is the deal breaker IMO) and because in Reason you don't absolutely need to add them as you do with the afore mentioned plugins. My point was also the comment about having them in the Mod Matrix, which is ALSO too small to support more modules IMO.

One big thing a future Thor should take advantage of is that it isn't a Rack Extension and thus isn't bound by SDK limitations. So why not have a dynamically-sized device? Add more modules and the device simply gets taller.

[chimp_spanner]

TBH there's not much about Thor I don't like. The only thing I'd like to see is proper unison, because that'd be crazy. And I'd also be happy to lose the OSC 1/2 blender knob and just have sliders for 1, 2, 3 and a fourth noise slider (so I can build three osc + noise patches). Maybe a rear panel menu for choosing the noise type or something.

Oh and I love the idea of an NN oscillator. That'd be mad! Otherwise I think Thor is pretty amazing as it is. Not much appetite for built in FX, for the same reasons given by others.

[fieldframe]

Ok, I was originally going to make a new topic for this, but I guess with this thread having been bumped recently, I might as well post it here:

Fully modular Thor 2 concept

Everything is interchangeable
All the original Thor components, even the hard-wired ones, are now modular sub-devices. Everything from the oscillators to the envelopes is treated the same way. Need more envelopes? Add them. Want six oscillators but only one filter? Everything fits in the same slots.

No hard-wired routing
There is still a lot of default routing that appears in the expanded mod matrix, but it can all be changed. There's also auto-routing. Init patch gives you some basics (analog osc, ladder filter, envelopes, mixer), but if you create an additional oscillator, it'll be routed to the mixer, which is auto-routed to the filter. This gives you the convenience of hard-wiring with the flexibility of true modular.

REs can include Thor modules
Inspired by iOS and Android widgets that automatically install when they are included with an app. REs built with the new Thor SDK can include a sound generator, effect, or a CV device that appears in Thor's menu when the RE is installed.

[selig]

Ok, I was originally going to make a new topic for this, but I guess with this thread having been bumped recently, I might as well post it here:

Fully modular Thor 2 concept

Everything is interchangeable
All the original Thor components, even the hard-wired ones, are now modular sub-devices. Everything from the oscillators to the envelopes is treated the same way. Need more envelopes? Add them. Want six oscillators but only one filter? Everything fits in the same slots.

No hard-wired routing
There is still a lot of default routing that appears in the expanded mod matrix, but it can all be changed. There's also auto-routing. Init patch gives you some basics (analog osc, ladder filter, envelopes, mixer), but if you create an additional oscillator, it'll be routed to the mixer, which is auto-routed to the filter. This gives you the convenience of hard-wiring with the flexibility of true modular.

REs can include Thor modules
Inspired by iOS and Android widgets that automatically install when they are included with an app. REs built with the new Thor SDK can include a sound generator, effect, or a CV device that appears in Thor's menu when the RE is installed.

Interesting concept - questions remain for me, such as how to mix more than three oscillators, or what to do when you run out of mod matrix slots (which I can already do with the current layout). Also, how do you visualize what the routing is, for example in your mockup how are the modules routed? Also, how do the original "1/3 space" modules (such as LFO1 and the envelopes) and the 2/3 space oscillators fit into this "grid" approach where every module takes up the same amount of space?

Your "amp/mixer" cannot work as before, since you've combined them in one module but they come at different points in the audio path. Seems you need to account for smaller modules in this concept?

I know this is a long shot because it's highly unlikely the Props will create expand device - but who knows?

[Creativemind]

What a concept, absolutely brilliant, love it. The only thing I have is, the background should be black like Thor

Also, the Amp / Mixer would have to be at the end of the chain and fixed wouldn't it?

[selig]

What a concept, absolutely brilliant, love it. The only thing I have is, the background should be black like Thor

Also, the Amp / Mixer would have to be at the end of the chain and fixed wouldn't it?

the mixer needs to be between the OSC and the FILTER, but the Amp needs to be after the filter but before the FX. Don't see how this will work unless you account for multiple module sizes and an expandable Mod Matrix. And of course there must be a huge change to the SDK that is unlikely IMO, as we don't even have enough current SDK features to build Thor as is is TODAY as an RE!

Still, I DO enjoy these thought exercises…

[EdGrip]

Props find themselves in a tricky position now, of presumably having to update the stock devices at *some* point, but at the same time trying not to undermine their RE developers or their own paid REs.

I look forward to seeing, from this point of view, what Reason 10 looks like.

[fieldframe]

What a concept, absolutely brilliant, love it. The only thing I have is, the background should be black like Thor

Also, the Amp / Mixer would have to be at the end of the chain and fixed wouldn't it?

the mixer needs to be between the OSC and the FILTER, but the Amp needs to be after the filter but before the FX. Don't see how this will work unless you account for multiple module sizes and an expandable Mod Matrix. And of course there must be a huge change to the SDK that is unlikely IMO, as we don't even have enough current SDK features to build Thor as is is TODAY as an RE!

Still, I DO enjoy these thought exercises…

The idea is that any of the original Thor components that are "doubled up" can still function independently; they just get their own inputs and outputs in the mod matrix.

Here's a basic patch that shows the different inputs/outputs of the doubled-up mixer/amp working in the signal path despite sharing a module:

(Note that the Mix/amp module has inputs A-C for the mixer and D for the amp)

Code: Select all

Multi Osc 1         100        Mix/amp 1 Input A
Mix/amp 1 Mix Out   100        LP Ladder 1
LP Ladder 1         100        Mix/amp 1 Input D
Mix/amp Amp Out     100        Reverb 1
Reverb 1            100        Stereo Out 1/2
Dual Env 1 A        100        Mix/amp Amp Level
Dual Env 1 B        75         LP Ladder 1 Cutoff

Also, a note on the SDK: In the era of Rack Extensions, I think this is actually the role of Reason's future built-in devices - to do things that simply wouldn't be practical to allow in the SDK. Turning Thor into a Reason-style polyphonic Eurorack would open up new possibilities for RE developers, making Thor into an ecosystem!

[fieldframe]

About mixing more than 3 oscillators: You could either chain mixers (add another mix/amp whose mix output goes to input C of the first mixer), or there could be a new, different module that's more like a tiny version of the 6:2 line mixer (complete with per-channel pan!).

[Creativemind]

However you look at it, hurdles need to be overcome but the concept here is fantastic and I personally would welcome a Thor Modular as an additional stock synth

[esselfortium]

That modular Thor 2 premise is great, fieldframe! I've always generally felt like I could do without the usually-proposed Thor overhauls, simply due to all the other advanced synth options in Reason, but this would be something pretty different and special.

[selig]

However you look at it, hurdles need to be overcome but the concept here is fantastic and I personally would welcome a Thor Modular as an additional stock synth

Dang it, I proposed something similar a LONG time ago and no one seemed all that interested!
Some of you are probably tired of seeing this…