How to create a ducking reverb ?

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Morphic1977
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Post 27 Jul 2015

Hi guys,

I would like to ask you how to create a ducking effect on reverb in Reason using just stock devices ?
I am looking for the same effect like you can find on Echo device (it is controlled by the ducking knob).

Is it possible to create it with RV7000 or RV-7 plus other devices inside combinator?

Thanks

Martin
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Olivier
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Post 27 Jul 2015

There are many ways to do this using a combinator.

For example like this:

Take a combi, put in a spider audio, an MClass Compressor and an RV7K
Take the incoming signal, connect it to the spider audio an split it out towards the compressor and the rv.
make sure to also connect the output of the RV7k.

Flip the rack, take the gain CV out from the Comp. and connect that to the programmer cv In channel 1. Set channel to unipolar.
Now go into the programmer, select the RV, in modulation routing select CV In 1 as sourc, set target to Dry/Wet, set Min to 80 and max to 0.

On the MClass set threshold all the way to the left, ratio all the way to the right.

Take a listen, Tweak where needed.
[eauhm] ducking reverb.zip
There are more ways to do this ofcourse, but the main trick is to get that gain reduction CV from the compressor and use it to dampen the effect that you want to duck.
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selig
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Post 27 Jul 2015

There are actually two different things to duck with this effect - the "wet" signal and/or the feedback/decay time. The Echo only ducks the "wet" sound, but by using the breakout jacks you can create an effect that ducks the feedback amount. This could be handy for keeping the feedback low when there's a signal, and allowing it to go "long" when you stop playing.

As for the reverb, I created this effect for the FSB in Reason 6.5. You can find the Combinator here:
All Effects/Reverb/EFX Dynamic Hall

This Combinator uses both approaches, with the Sensitivity knob controlling the amount of dynamic Decay control. Turning this control all the way up simply ducks the reverb signal, keeping the decay time constant.

You can dissect this Combi to see how simple the process is.
:)
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Olivier
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Post 27 Jul 2015

selig wrote:There are actually two different things to duck with this effect - the "wet" signal and/or the feedback/decay time. The Echo only ducks the "wet" sound, but by using the breakout jacks you can create an effect that ducks the feedback amount. This could be handy for keeping the feedback low when there's a signal, and allowing it to go "long" when you stop playing.

As for the reverb, I created this effect for the FSB in Reason 6.5. You can find the Combinator here:
All Effects/Reverb/EFX Dynamic Hall

This Combinator uses both approaches, with the Sensitivity knob controlling the amount of dynamic Decay control. Turning this control all the way up simply ducks the reverb signal, keeping the decay time constant.

You can dissect this Combi to see how simple the process is.
:)
Interesting idea, ducking a delay by cutting the feedback time, i can imagine it could work with reverb, but when i try to apply it do delay it gets a bit counterintuitive to me :P

Isn't there a chance that If you do that, and you use the signal to reduce the feedback too much, you are risking to loose the attack of the sound in the delays? I mean, at the time they sound, the feedback reduction means they don't get delayed long enough to survive untill the actual sound stops.
With more moderate feedback reduction, you would get the effect that you basically clean out previous delays by reducing their feedback and filling the buffer with the new sounds...

i'll just have to go try it i guess :P
:reason: V9 | i7 5930 | Motu 828 MK3 | Win 10

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selig
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Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

Post 27 Jul 2015

eauhm wrote:
selig wrote:There are actually two different things to duck with this effect - the "wet" signal and/or the feedback/decay time. The Echo only ducks the "wet" sound, but by using the breakout jacks you can create an effect that ducks the feedback amount. This could be handy for keeping the feedback low when there's a signal, and allowing it to go "long" when you stop playing.

As for the reverb, I created this effect for the FSB in Reason 6.5. You can find the Combinator here:
All Effects/Reverb/EFX Dynamic Hall

This Combinator uses both approaches, with the Sensitivity knob controlling the amount of dynamic Decay control. Turning this control all the way up simply ducks the reverb signal, keeping the decay time constant.

You can dissect this Combi to see how simple the process is.
:)
Interesting idea, ducking a delay by cutting the feedback time, i can imagine it could work with reverb, but when i try to apply it do delay it gets a bit counterintuitive to me :P

Isn't there a chance that If you do that, and you use the signal to reduce the feedback too much, you are risking to loose the attack of the sound in the delays? I mean, at the time they sound, the feedback reduction means they don't get delayed long enough to survive untill the actual sound stops.
With more moderate feedback reduction, you would get the effect that you basically clean out previous delays by reducing their feedback and filling the buffer with the new sounds...

i'll just have to go try it i guess :P
There are two ways to do this, one using the same technique I used for the ducking reverb (splitting the signal, deriving a CV from the audio signal via a MClass Comp, and using that to drive the feedback knob via a Combinator), or more simply using traditional ducking in the Breakout path. Either way should work - worst case is there is no feedback on the delay.

Here's a quick Combi I made to illustrate the concept. Funny side note: check out the tape strip name on the Combi - TOTALLY un-intentional… ;)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0g7epbhseuqxy ... b.zip?dl=0
Selig Audio, LLC

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Olivier
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Post 27 Jul 2015

selig wrote:
eauhm wrote: Interesting idea, ducking a delay by cutting the feedback time, i can imagine it could work with reverb, but when i try to apply it do delay it gets a bit counterintuitive to me :P

Isn't there a chance that If you do that, and you use the signal to reduce the feedback too much, you are risking to loose the attack of the sound in the delays? I mean, at the time they sound, the feedback reduction means they don't get delayed long enough to survive untill the actual sound stops.
With more moderate feedback reduction, you would get the effect that you basically clean out previous delays by reducing their feedback and filling the buffer with the new sounds...

i'll just have to go try it i guess :P
There are two ways to do this, one using the same technique I used for the ducking reverb (splitting the signal, deriving a CV from the audio signal via a MClass Comp, and using that to drive the feedback knob via a Combinator), or more simply using traditional ducking in the Breakout path. Either way should work - worst case is there is no feedback on the delay.

Here's a quick Combi I made to illustrate the concept. Funny side note: check out the tape strip name on the Combi - TOTALLY un-intentional… ;)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0g7epbhseuqxy ... b.zip?dl=0
Ha ! Thats exactly what i just build to try the concept, and it behaves exactly like i expected. Cool :P
:reason: V9 | i7 5930 | Motu 828 MK3 | Win 10

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Morphic1977
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Location: Slovakia, Bratislava

Post 29 Jul 2015

Thank you all for your tips.

Martin
:reason: :PUF_balance: :ignition: :re: :refill:

Nektar Panorama P4, Many of REs and couple of refills...
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alex
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Location: Italy

Post 29 Jul 2015

If what you need is the classic 1/4 EDM reverb ducking effect, you could also try synchronous: put it as insert on your track, draw a 1/4th rate "Ramp Up" curve, assing it to the reverb section and put the send/return switch in return mode. Then increase the size, amount lower the damp to your taste. Done! It's a little neat trick described on the manual, but very effective: synchronous reverb sounds really "washed" and full. I really like it.
My two cents :puf_smile:
The best things happen after reading the manual. ;)
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