Propellerhead Forums

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
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kb420
Posts: 12
Joined: 04 Feb 2015

04 Feb 2015

I'm a refugee from the now defunct Propellerhead forums.  What the hell happened?  Why did they shut them down?  I for one always thought it was a great online community, even for those who weren't hardcore Reason users.  Seriously,  what the hell was on their minds?
Sooooooooo,  you shut down the forums?  Bad move Props!!!!!

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eusti
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04 Feb 2015

Welcome, kb420!

Please feel free to read up on various threads here about the closing of the Propellerheads User Forum.
That should keep you busy for a bit! ;)

D.

5mile
Posts: 22
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

04 Feb 2015

So we could not go to the shop as much and come here instead of buying re's

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Gaja
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05 Feb 2015

kb420 wrote:I'm a refugee from the now defunct Propellerhead forums.  What the hell happened?  Why did they shut them down?  I for one always thought it was a great online community, even for those who weren't hardcore Reason users.  Seriously,  what the hell was on their minds?
They don't have the ressources to have someone scrounge every thread 24/7, so there's that. Of course that made the forums explode both with members and negativity since Reason 6 (or so). The Forums were a dark and very abusive place, and Lunesis was so kind as to open this Forum and many many users from the PUF are here (almost all of the regular posters), so basically this here is the underground version of the PUF. It's also moderated nicely, so, to quote Enoch, the closing of the forum was actually a good thing.
Cheers!
Fredhoven

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zakalwe
Posts: 447
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

05 Feb 2015

they were upset that people were saying they don't care about their customers so they made the point of proving them right it seems.

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Gaja
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05 Feb 2015

Springheeled Jock wrote:they were upset that people were saying they don't care about their customers so they made the point of proving them right it seems.
People have been saying that for ages. Get over it, they had actual Reasons to close the forums. How do you think they stayed in business for 20 Years? Because they don't care? Yeah sure. The Forum were used by maximum 5% of the users (it's a guess, I don't have access to actual numbers). It was a waste of company ressources.
Cheers!
Fredhoven

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zakalwe
Posts: 447
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

05 Feb 2015

Springheeled Jock wrote:they were upset that people were saying they don't care about their customers so they made the point of proving them right it seems.
Gaja wrote: People have been saying that for ages. Get over it, they had actual Reasons to close the forums. How do you think they stayed in business for 20 Years? Because they don't care? Yeah sure. The Forum were used by maximum 5% of the users (it's a guess, I don't have access to actual numbers). It was a waste of company ressources.
there were other ways to address the company's lack of interest in maintaining a forum on their site other than binning it entirely.  they could have at least locked the database as they had done for a year during the heart bleed security issue.

I suggest everyone complain to propellerhead, using their web feedback form.  it's apparently the only way to get their attention.

https://www.propellerheads.se/company/contact/

I put one in under reason since there's no much choice so i made it pertinent to its value as a reason resource, requesting that, at the very least, they re-up the database and leave it locked.

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MattiasHG
Reason Studios
Posts: 488
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

05 Feb 2015

Springheeled Jock wrote:I suggest everyone complain to propellerhead, using their web feedback form.  it's apparently the only way to get their attention.

https://www.propellerheads.se/company/contact/

I put one in under reason since there's no much choice so i made it pertinent to its value as a reason resource, requesting that, at the very least, they re-up the database and leave it locked.
It's far from the only way to get our attention! :)

You can message us directly on Twitter and Facebook too, I read everything that comes in. Also, the contact link is now https://www.propellerheads.se/contact - we've removed the Reason/ReCycle links and made it a general feedback contact.

But it's worth pointing out that PUF was definitely NOT the way to get our attention before. It was even in the forum rules that it was not a way to communicate with Propellerhead. ;)

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zakalwe
Posts: 447
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

05 Feb 2015

Springheeled Jock wrote:I suggest everyone complain to propellerhead, using their web feedback form.  it's apparently the only way to get their attention.

https://www.propellerheads.se/company/contact/

I put one in under reason since there's no much choice so i made it pertinent to its value as a reason resource, requesting that, at the very least, they re-up the database and leave it locked.
MattiasHG wrote:
It's far from the only way to get our attention! :)

You can message us directly on Twitter and Facebook too, I read everything that comes in. Also, the contact link is now 
https://www.propellerheads.se/contact
MattiasHG wrote: - we've removed the Reason/ReCycle links and made it a general feedback contact.

But it's worth pointing out that PUF was definitely NOT the way to get our attention before. It was even in the forum rules that it was not a way to communicate with Propellerhead. ;)
fair enough and thanks for adding that.  I hope you take our comments on board about this, however you receive them.

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Gaja
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05 Feb 2015

Springheeled Jock wrote:they were upset that people were saying they don't care about their customers so they made the point of proving them right it seems.
Gaja wrote: People have been saying that for ages. Get over it, they had actual Reasons to close the forums. How do you think they stayed in business for 20 Years? Because they don't care? Yeah sure. The Forum were used by maximum 5% of the users (it's a guess, I don't have access to actual numbers). It was a waste of company ressources.
zakalwe wrote:
there were other ways to address the company's lack of interest in maintaining a forum on their site other than binning it entirely.  they could have at least locked the database as they had done for a year during the heart bleed security issue.

I suggest everyone complain to propellerhead, using their web feedback form.  it's apparently the only way to get their attention.
https://www.propellerheads.se/company/contact/
zakalwe wrote:
I put one in under reason since there's no much choice so i made it pertinent to its value as a reason resource, requesting that, at the very least, they re-up the database and leave it locked.
Well, deleting everything entirely is maybe a little drastic of a choice, I agree, but still the company would have to spend money on sorting out the bits and pieces that are worth keeping, because far from everything on that forum is worth keeping. I'd say the ratio (from what I found to be useful) would be something like 500:1 read 500 posts and find one that's worth keeping. That is one hell of a job and ey asked us to rescue the stuff we found worth keeping. Yes and a week is little time for that, but I wonder how many of the people who were devastated by the decision, actually did go in there and save posts. I for one didn't.
After the forums have been deleted, what do you think a complaint can achieve?
I'm not saying don't complain, but if you do so, be aware of what you're complaining about, and how you voice your concerns. I'm not in customer service, so I can only imagine the kind of work it is. From what I've read on the PUF I'm not convinced it is an adequately rewarding task. Also people like Matthias come here to join the discussions (or to try and clarify concerns, which is surely not easy, considering their disclosure policy). Can you imagine what it is like to have to hold onto knowledge that you desperately want to share, but you're not allowed to? And even if they do share stuff, people still don't believe them or interpret it as doom and gloom, or as an insult to all reason users. How do you think tat feels?
Wow sorry that was maybe a bit harsh, but I find it important to try and see trough the eyes of others. I didn't mean to offend at all, only clarify my view on the matter.
Cheers!
Fredhoven

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zakalwe
Posts: 447
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

05 Feb 2015

Gaja wrote:Well, deleting everything entirely is maybe a little drastic of a choice, I agree, but still the company would have to spend money on sorting out the bits and pieces that are worth keeping, because far from everything on that forum is worth keeping. I'd say the ratio (from what I found to be useful) would be something like 500:1 read 500 posts and find one that's worth keeping. That is one hell of a job and ey asked us to rescue the stuff we found worth keeping. Yes and a week is little time for that, but I wonder how many of the people who were devastated by the decision, actually did go in there and save posts. I for one didn't. After the forums have been deleted, what do you think a complaint can achieve? I'm not saying don't complain, but if you do so, be aware of what you're complaining about, and how you voice your concerns. I'm not in customer service, so I can only imagine the kind of work it is. From what I've read on the PUF I'm not convinced it is an adequately rewarding task. Also people like Matthias come here to join the discussions (or to try and clarify concerns, which is surely not easy, considering their disclosure policy). Can you imagine what it is like to have to hold onto knowledge that you desperately want to share, but you're not allowed to? And even if they do share stuff, people still don't believe them or interpret it as doom and gloom, or as an insult to all reason users. How do you think tat feels? Wow sorry that was maybe a bit harsh, but I find it important to try and see trough the eyes of others. I didn't mean to offend at all, only clarify my view on the matter.
I simply asked them as a suggestion if they could host the forums as a read only archive which they have done in the past.  there's no need to edit posts or do anything.  google has already indexed it as you can see (all dead links currently though) if you search.  unless they really hate PUF so much that they had a ritual burning of the database backup, then this is quite a reasonable request as a compromise to give a small but active part of their customer base a means to reference old threads of interest on the new forum and anyone using google search the ability to access topics.

i was never particularly on the forums.  i clocked up about 300 posts in 12 years, not bad really but every time i used them i got the answers i needed, often very quickly by asking people if i couldn't get the search or google to hit.  ironically it seems like it was the people who lived there who hated it the most.  i found it quite easy to filter out all the squabbles and nerd rage.

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jonheal
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Joined: 29 Jan 2015
Location: Springfield, VA, USA
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05 Feb 2015

Springheeled Jock wrote:I suggest everyone complain to propellerhead, using their web feedback form.  it's apparently the only way to get their attention.

https://www.propellerheads.se/company/contact/

I put one in under reason since there's no much choice so i made it pertinent to its value as a reason resource, requesting that, at the very least, they re-up the database and leave it locked.
MattiasHG wrote:
It's far from the only way to get our attention! :)

You can message us directly on Twitter and Facebook too, I read everything that comes in. Also, the contact link is now 
https://www.propellerheads.se/contact
MattiasHG wrote: - we've removed the Reason/ReCycle links and made it a general feedback contact.

But it's worth pointing out that PUF was definitely NOT the way to get our attention before. It was even in the forum rules that it was not a way to communicate with Propellerhead. ;)
Mattias,

I don't contest that the former Propellerhead Forums were not the best way to contact Propellerhead for technical support. They were, after all, user forums. Most or all of the other major audio software developers also maintain [user] forums, including:

Ableton, Avid, BitWig, Cakewalk, Cockos, Image-Line, Native Instruments, PreSonus and Steinberg

But honestly, I wouldn't go to any of those either expecting direct support from the developers. They too, are user forums.

I think in closing the forums, however, it may have come across as "sour grapes" to some PH users.

On the other hand, even if closing the forums was in reality an issue of being "fed up" on the part of Propellerhead, I can hardly blame them. The bile a lot of users spewed there was quite thick and bitter. (And some of it has simply moved here.)

P.S. I would also like to note that the most difficult company in the world to contact for support is Apple. Living in a friggen ivory tower, they are.
P.P.S. Personally, I hate Twitter and wish someone would kill it with fire.
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

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C//AZM
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Joined: 20 Jan 2015

05 Feb 2015


Yes, the same with me. I ignored the squabbles and fights but often, even then, if someone had a good idea, or  halfway good that needed fleshing out, I got the chance to learn.
I rarely posted on the PUF but I read up on what I needed and got not only answers but a discussion which displayed the workflow and thought process or others and provided many many ah-haa moments. This came from the educated statements as well as the "stupid" ones. I learned more from teaching basic audio at a community college than dealing with top pros all day. More than once i've thought..."well that won't work but it will work for this other application."  It was way more than a question answer board, it was a hash out ideas forum and a "what if" forum. I do think that not archiving the entire forum was a disappointing mistake.

avasopht
Competition Winner
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Joined: 16 Jan 2015

05 Feb 2015

Well this forum is cleaner than the PUF, so as far as I'm concerned closing it was the best thing that has happened for the Reason community.

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zakalwe
Posts: 447
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

05 Feb 2015

just because the forum sucked, it doesn't mean this is a better solution per se.  search 'reason forum' and you'll see one problem.  assuming the user base grows and google bumps it up to first page, even then you rely on a community of people who may move on.  fan forums can tend to end up full of kitchen spam (oh the irony) whereas the company support was almost constant and spanned over a decade.

but i agree, the old forum was terribly outdated and also the (relaunched) sub-forum categories made little sense.

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Reason101
Posts: 87
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

05 Feb 2015

The fact that the Props didn't want to archive the forums as a "read only" place hosted on their site (let's face it, hosting a big wad of information costs nothing really), tells me that there's much more to the forum closing than just not wanting to deal with the moderation and/or resources. If this was all it was, then we'd have a read-only archive. So ask yourself what the difference is between a read-only archive and a complete deletion. That will speak volumes to their motivation. That's for you to decide. But it seems pretty clear to me.

As for any new user that asks me any questions about Reason, I'll tell them exactly what the Props want me to tell them: Go ask your question of the Props on YouTwitFace.

I'll also tell anyone that wants to use their sharing service to use at your own risk, and tell them that they deleted their forums at a week's notice, and there's nothing stopping them from deleting their cloud service in the same way. Base your present and future decisions on history, my friend.

As for new users that ask me for recommendations on what DAW to purchase, I'll inform them that while I still consider Reason the best DAW for me personally, the Props just put a new line in my "negative" column: No company-sponsored user forum and removal of many great and informative tutorials. Were I a new user, that would weigh heavily in my decision making process.

You can't argue with facts.
RobReason Book: Reason101 Visual Guide to the Reason RackReason Site: http://www.Reason101.netSoundCloudhttp://www.soundcloud.com/phi-sequence Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/robanselmi

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jonheal
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05 Feb 2015

By the way, I don't think [all of] the forums are truly and completely deleted. I managed to stumble upon the old ready-only forums at an IP number managed by the service I believe is hosting Propellerhead's web site, MrFriday.com.

But it is almost impossible to navigate, so it is not terribly useful. Here is an example link:

https://31.24.67.196/forum/showthread.php?t=153921

(Ignore the certificate warning ... I think. :shock: )

Sorry for sneaking around, Mattias ... :s0717:
Jon Heal:reason: :re: :refill:Do not click this link!

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C//AZM
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Joined: 20 Jan 2015

05 Feb 2015


I wonder if MattaisHG would be willing to say why they didn't archive the forum. Just curious.

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EnochLight
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05 Feb 2015

C//AZM wrote: I wonder if MattaisHG would be willing to say why they didn't archive the forum. Just curious.
My guess is... although there were some useful threads in there and some great "how to" posts, the rest of the noise (trolling, name calling, and just overall horrible shit) would be a sore spot to immortalize.  But that's just my take on it.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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Echo Project Studio
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05 Feb 2015

I had steered away from browsing the forum very often for some time. Simply, because it was becoming no longer useful or worth the time trying to filtering out the negative comments while looking for assistance or information worth tucking away for future reference. Even if you did find a worthwhile conversation, it either fell off the page, or was taken over by naysayers in record time. It sometimes amazed me how anyone could have time for production while spending so much of their time batch. Maybe, (my opinion), the worse meeting place of any product that I use by the end of the cycle.
Bobby Watson Kerrville, TXhttp://echoprojectstudio.org
https://opabobby.bandcamp.com/ 

avasopht
Competition Winner
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05 Feb 2015

Reason101 wrote:You can't argue with facts.
There are facts and then their are subjective rationales which are more reflective of your mentality than truth.

Anyone can pull any service at any time. That's a fact also. Apple bought a DAW and made it Apple only, so you could also say, "don't get any DAW that is closed source and not on Apple, because all DAWs could be bought out by Apple so only buy Apple DAWs." That's based on history.

Google have pulled many products, so you could say, don't use YouTube because Google could at any point pull YouTube like they have with many of their previous products.

You could go on and on about it but the only true fact is that that stance just demonstrates a negative emotion in response to change. Life is uncertain and how we respond to unexpected change tells a lot about our character and state of mind.

The question is, am I willing to be honest about my state of mind and take the drivers seat or will I become a slave to it?

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EnochLight
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05 Feb 2015

One thing is for sure: Propellerhead read everything posted on their Facebook and Twitter.  On the forums, they did not.  Hell, it was hard enough to get them to moderate the shitstorm of abuse that would occur regularly on the old forums.

So tell me: if you know that they're going to be reading everything posted on their Facebook and Twitter, shouldn't that bring some level of comfort if "communicating" with them is your goal?

We have this place for shooting the shit between us (and hell, even a few Props pop in here once and a while as musicians and fellow users), so nothing to worry about IMHO.  But hey, it's no secret: I'm a glass half full kind of guy.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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zakalwe
Posts: 447
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

05 Feb 2015

well, matthias got back to me pretty quick which is cool.  i guess it's up to people to let them know how they feel about it rather than raging on a forum (that is optional)

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Reason101
Posts: 87
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

05 Feb 2015

avasopht wrote: Anyone can pull any service at any time. That's a fact also. Apple bought a DAW and made it Apple only, so you could also say, "don't get any DAW that is closed source and not on Apple, because all DAWs could be bought out by Apple so only buy Apple DAWs." That's based on history.

Google have pulled many products, so you could say, don't use YouTube because Google could at any point pull YouTube like they have with many of their previous products.
Of course any company can pull any service at any time. Have you ever heard of a legitimate company not simply pulling a forum with 13 years of information on it from a chunk of their user base, but completely deleting it? I haven't.

I'm not opposed to change btw. I'm all for change. But change that makes sense and moves people forward. What this move did is retroactive. It deleted 13 years of conversations and data. Sorry, but that's just stupid. At the very least it could have been archived. I would have been ok with that.

Most companies would try to keep the past available, while they look forward to the future.

But of course, these are all just my musings and shooting the shit with you all. We could debate business strategy to death.
RobReason Book: Reason101 Visual Guide to the Reason RackReason Site: http://www.Reason101.netSoundCloudhttp://www.soundcloud.com/phi-sequence Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/robanselmi

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