[TECH HOUSE / ELECTRONICA] EXTREMELY BORING

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danc
Posts: 947
Joined: 14 Oct 2016

Post 18 Nov 2022



Clean cut and straight to the point - this is "EXTREMELY BORING".

Thoughts?
Check my Soundcloud a/c...

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PropitiousME
Posts: 49
Joined: 01 Sep 2021

Post 18 Nov 2022

Listened on my normal desktop via a SoundBlaster X Katana. I'll try to check it on my monitors later. Good dynamic, overall clean mix with adequate loudness IMO. Has a nice groove man!

I love rounded kicks and this one sits nicely with the bassline. Vocal and bassline are well centered and the funky lead sound is doing a decent job filling up some of the stereo field (seems to favor right side a tiny bit, but might be my Katana's emulation). My only suggestion since it's such a consistent and prominent piece of the track's rhythm, mix it up a bit on some phrases. Give it a bit more movement or evolution of character (IE. filter / saturation over time). Perhaps ping-pong delay on slower cycles (if it's already being used). Tease the user's perception a bit and shuffle it around the stereo field. Even a normal delay or reverb wash at the main tension build should sit well since the sound has a relatively short decay / release.

You got plenty of room to throw just about any effect you want at it IMO. Whatever you do should help reinforce the kick/bass. Maybe sidechain the FX you end up using should they get busy enough (IE. try wet signal first). All this should reduce ear fatigue with that particular element. :clap: :thumbup: GJ!
[AMD Ryzen 5 5600x (no OC) | 32GB RAM | Gigabyte B450 I AORUS PRO WIFI (Bios: F61d) | Radeon RX 560 4GB | Presonus Studio68c & FaderPort V2 | Arturia KeyStep | Yamaha Montage 7]

danc
Posts: 947
Joined: 14 Oct 2016

Post 19 Nov 2022

PropitiousME wrote:
18 Nov 2022
Listened on my normal desktop via a SoundBlaster X Katana. I'll try to check it on my monitors later. Good dynamic, overall clean mix with adequate loudness IMO. Has a nice groove man!

I love rounded kicks and this one sits nicely with the bassline. Vocal and bassline are well centered and the funky lead sound is doing a decent job filling up some of the stereo field (seems to favor right side a tiny bit, but might be my Katana's emulation). My only suggestion since it's such a consistent and prominent piece of the track's rhythm, mix it up a bit on some phrases. Give it a bit more movement or evolution of character (IE. filter / saturation over time). Perhaps ping-pong delay on slower cycles (if it's already being used). Tease the user's perception a bit and shuffle it around the stereo field. Even a normal delay or reverb wash at the main tension build should sit well since the sound has a relatively short decay / release.

You got plenty of room to throw just about any effect you want at it IMO. Whatever you do should help reinforce the kick/bass. Maybe sidechain the FX you end up using should they get busy enough (IE. try wet signal first). All this should reduce ear fatigue with that particular element. :clap: :thumbup: GJ!
hi PropitiousME - what a great response... regarding mixing it up a bit - I totally agree. And as you say it is a "consistent and prominent piece" and I don't want to lose that, as I think that is part of its charm... however, I agree it needs to explore off the path a little more to keep interest, and I will do this... but I'll bring people back to the central path again as this is a key part of the tracks identity.

Re favouring the right side a tiny bit - well, absolutely and I need to fix it. Basically, in recent months I have been really going to town trying to "use" the stereo field, panning hats and other percussion to sit in their own 2D-space. Anyway... my right ear is in better condition than my left and I sometimes push things a little more to the right because it sounds better. My left isn't that bad, just not as crystal clear as my right. I will fix this. Listen to people like Ekoboy who really play with the left/right panning on the tracks - love it.

Thanks again - glad you "get" it and "like" the concept.
Check my Soundcloud a/c...

danc
Posts: 947
Joined: 14 Oct 2016

Post 19 Nov 2022

Ok... version TWO just uploaded... I took the ideas suggested by PropitiousME and went down the rabbit hole of adding subtle (and some definitely not subtle) modular groove FX interest as the track progresses. Whilst staying on that tight path to ensure it doesn't go too crazy.

I still want to work on these groove elements... but it's definitely getting there.

Thoughts??
Check my Soundcloud a/c...

User avatar
PropitiousME
Posts: 49
Joined: 01 Sep 2021

Post 19 Nov 2022

danc wrote:
19 Nov 2022
Ok... version TWO just uploaded... I took the ideas suggested by PropitiousME and went down the rabbit hole of adding subtle (and some definitely not subtle) modular groove FX interest as the track progresses. Whilst staying on that tight path to ensure it doesn't go too crazy.

I still want to work on these groove elements... but it's definitely getting there.

Thoughts??
Consider I'm listening on my monitors this time. Sounds like the pan is sorted on that lead now. :thumbs_up: I can also hear what sounds like some echo / delay "ramping" at different phrases (IE. like the sound @ ~1:30). The side effect of making these changes seems to have led you to push the sound further back in the mix overall. Did you drop the level on that lead track entirely or is an effect just attenuating the signal making it a quieter element now? This might be intended, it just comes down to what elements you want to be the key focus of the track. It could just be the difference between my studio monitors (flatter) vs the Katana, but it's a significant enough volume change I don't think that's the case. If it was pushed back on purpose and that is the intended range you want it to sit in, it affords another opportunity. That being you can now bring it up front for specific breakdown(s). :idea:

Example: Right around ~1:00 you have a breakdown where it's just the bass sound and the lead playing off each other. Don't be afraid to take advantage of the space you created in this section. You could automate the lead to be louder and more upfront with the bass during that break (just make sure you employ something creative to bring it up - level is fine). Ideally, it would already be re-staged up front starting at 1:00 when the other instrumentation drops out. You might have to play around a bit to see what sounds best in terms of bringing it to the front and how that's accomplished for this without jarring the user's listening experience going into that short breakdown. Could also try ramping a reverb wash in that section after it's up front. So one that builds the space up on that sound from 1:00 - 1:17. The wash effect will help build tension along with the fact you've brought it forward a bit in the mix. Then when the kick / drop returns sit it back in the mix again and let the tail fade off into the "abyss". Good opportunity to experiment with a good convolution reverb plug and test different impulses / spaces against the vibe of the track. Might add some nice contrast to that section.

Keep in mind, I'm not trying to tell you how your track should sound. This is just how my brain works as someone that started with DJing electronic and then got into production. So just try to take away the underlying concepts I'm touching on (as a listener with his own tastes) more than anything. If it doesn't sound good to you don't use it. Undoubtedly though, the fewer the elements in your track the more important variation is gonna be on those sounds to keep the listener interested. Some of the cleanest sounding mixes come from the more minimal tracks that leverage intricate automation and liberal stereo field positioning, etc. :clap:

NOTE: I just listened to your track "Press Eight Now". Love it, this one is busy! What synth did you use in the intro of that track (first ~20 secs or so)? Kinda' has a modular vibe to it.
[AMD Ryzen 5 5600x (no OC) | 32GB RAM | Gigabyte B450 I AORUS PRO WIFI (Bios: F61d) | Radeon RX 560 4GB | Presonus Studio68c & FaderPort V2 | Arturia KeyStep | Yamaha Montage 7]

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PropitiousME
Posts: 49
Joined: 01 Sep 2021

Post 19 Nov 2022

Recently got some new vinyl off Juno the other day and in particular was one that might better express or reference what I'm getting at with focused lead sounds (in general) and how one or more of them can be brought in and pushed out with the backing elements at times. Your track is a bit different in that the bassline plays an important role in the overall vibe. So this is just an example for the sake of expanding on my thought process around lead element(s) I suppose:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3mg-COSVX0

The track definitely makes liberal use of reverb to employ the essence of "space" on the lead sounds used. It's really not a complex track in terms of number of sounds used, but variation is all over via effects, filtering, levels, etc.

Here is another one, minimal and more focused on maintaining the presence of the bassline with subtle interwoven lead sounds. Certainly closer to your existing path then the aforementioned use case where the lead is the main element of interest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R53IH4FoPJI


This one however also employs a background pad which I think is used to kinda "glue" the main elements of the track together. Noted also is liberal use of open and closed hats for syncopation and rhythm reinforcement of the lead sound. Hopefully my rants serve to continue to inspire you more than anything. My goal is to help empower you to expand on the track ideas you've started, not create a complex mental block, lol. :puf_wink: Ultimately, judging by your naming of the track and your initial idea I perceive you're trying to maintain a simpler, less busy track in terms of elements, but one that shows the user "boring" can be interesting (RE: play on *irony* perhaps).
[AMD Ryzen 5 5600x (no OC) | 32GB RAM | Gigabyte B450 I AORUS PRO WIFI (Bios: F61d) | Radeon RX 560 4GB | Presonus Studio68c & FaderPort V2 | Arturia KeyStep | Yamaha Montage 7]

danc
Posts: 947
Joined: 14 Oct 2016

Post 19 Nov 2022

PropitiousME wrote:
19 Nov 2022
danc wrote:
19 Nov 2022
Ok... version TWO just uploaded... I took the ideas suggested by PropitiousME and went down the rabbit hole of adding subtle (and some definitely not subtle) modular groove FX interest as the track progresses. Whilst staying on that tight path to ensure it doesn't go too crazy.

I still want to work on these groove elements... but it's definitely getting there.

Thoughts??
Consider I'm listening on my monitors this time. Sounds like the pan is sorted on that lead now. :thumbs_up: I can also hear what sounds like some echo / delay "ramping" at different phrases (IE. like the sound @ ~1:30). The side effect of making these changes seems to have led you to push the sound further back in the mix overall. Did you drop the level on that lead track entirely or is an effect just attenuating the signal making it a quieter element now? This might be intended, it just comes down to what elements you want to be the key focus of the track. It could just be the difference between my studio monitors (flatter) vs the Katana, but it's a significant enough volume change I don't think that's the case. If it was pushed back on purpose and that is the intended range you want it to sit in, it affords another opportunity. That being you can now bring it up front for specific breakdown(s). :idea:

Example: Right around ~1:00 you have a breakdown where it's just the bass sound and the lead playing off each other. Don't be afraid to take advantage of the space you created in this section. You could automate the lead to be louder and more upfront with the bass during that break (just make sure you employ something creative to bring it up - level is fine). Ideally, it would already be re-staged up front starting at 1:00 when the other instrumentation drops out. You might have to play around a bit to see what sounds best in terms of bringing it to the front and how that's accomplished for this without jarring the user's listening experience going into that short breakdown. Could also try ramping a reverb wash in that section after it's up front. So one that builds the space up on that sound from 1:00 - 1:17. The wash effect will help build tension along with the fact you've brought it forward a bit in the mix. Then when the kick / drop returns sit it back in the mix again and let the tail fade off into the "abyss". Good opportunity to experiment with a good convolution reverb plug and test different impulses / spaces against the vibe of the track. Might add some nice contrast to that section.

Keep in mind, I'm not trying to tell you how your track should sound. This is just how my brain works as someone that started with DJing electronic and then got into production. So just try to take away the underlying concepts I'm touching on (as a listener with his own tastes) more than anything. If it doesn't sound good to you don't use it. Undoubtedly though, the fewer the elements in your track the more important variation is gonna be on those sounds to keep the listener interested. Some of the cleanest sounding mixes come from the more minimal tracks that leverage intricate automation and liberal stereo field positioning, etc. :clap:

NOTE: I just listened to your track "Press Eight Now". Love it, this one is busy! What synth did you use in the intro of that track (first ~20 secs or so)? Kinda' has a modular vibe to it.
Meaty response! I'll work thru this backwards...

Re PRESS EIGHT NOW. Glad you like. As you say... much busier - which for some is too busy. The intro isn't modular - it's something I concocted with GForce Oddity 3. In fact the majority of the melody/arps in the track is Oddity 3. PRESS EIGHT NOW has actually been signed for release as part of a 3-track EP on Late Night Munchies, in April '23.

Back to EXTREMELY BORING: I didn't drop the level of the lead - I think this is what happens when you go from one set of monitors to another. I will play around with raising the volume and bringing it more in to central prominence in places. Regarding playing around with verbs/delays etc. I do a huge amount playing around with FX a lot. Often bouncing down an idea - and repeat another set of FX ideas - and then running through even more processing on the bounces and merging the different ideas together... to turn them into an evolving soundscape - that no-one (not even myself) can work out how I did it. It's like a blackhole that you can't escape from once you experiment with all of that!

Overall thought - thanks for the pointers, likes/dislikes and general overall interest in the makings of what makes electronic music a super fun hobby - and it is always appreciated to hear that I'm not going completely mad with something I only like.
Check my Soundcloud a/c...

User avatar
PropitiousME
Posts: 49
Joined: 01 Sep 2021

Post 19 Nov 2022

danc wrote:
19 Nov 2022
PropitiousME wrote:
19 Nov 2022


Consider I'm listening on my monitors this time. Sounds like the pan is sorted on that lead now. :thumbs_up: I can also hear what sounds like some echo / delay "ramping" at different phrases (IE. like the sound @ ~1:30). The side effect of making these changes seems to have led you to push the sound further back in the mix overall. Did you drop the level on that lead track entirely or is an effect just attenuating the signal making it a quieter element now? This might be intended, it just comes down to what elements you want to be the key focus of the track. It could just be the difference between my studio monitors (flatter) vs the Katana, but it's a significant enough volume change I don't think that's the case. If it was pushed back on purpose and that is the intended range you want it to sit in, it affords another opportunity. That being you can now bring it up front for specific breakdown(s). :idea:

Example: Right around ~1:00 you have a breakdown where it's just the bass sound and the lead playing off each other. Don't be afraid to take advantage of the space you created in this section. You could automate the lead to be louder and more upfront with the bass during that break (just make sure you employ something creative to bring it up - level is fine). Ideally, it would already be re-staged up front starting at 1:00 when the other instrumentation drops out. You might have to play around a bit to see what sounds best in terms of bringing it to the front and how that's accomplished for this without jarring the user's listening experience going into that short breakdown. Could also try ramping a reverb wash in that section after it's up front. So one that builds the space up on that sound from 1:00 - 1:17. The wash effect will help build tension along with the fact you've brought it forward a bit in the mix. Then when the kick / drop returns sit it back in the mix again and let the tail fade off into the "abyss". Good opportunity to experiment with a good convolution reverb plug and test different impulses / spaces against the vibe of the track. Might add some nice contrast to that section.

Keep in mind, I'm not trying to tell you how your track should sound. This is just how my brain works as someone that started with DJing electronic and then got into production. So just try to take away the underlying concepts I'm touching on (as a listener with his own tastes) more than anything. If it doesn't sound good to you don't use it. Undoubtedly though, the fewer the elements in your track the more important variation is gonna be on those sounds to keep the listener interested. Some of the cleanest sounding mixes come from the more minimal tracks that leverage intricate automation and liberal stereo field positioning, etc. :clap:

NOTE: I just listened to your track "Press Eight Now". Love it, this one is busy! What synth did you use in the intro of that track (first ~20 secs or so)? Kinda' has a modular vibe to it.
Meaty response! I'll work thru this backwards...

Re PRESS EIGHT NOW. Glad you like. As you say... much busier - which for some is too busy. The intro isn't modular - it's something I concocted with GForce Oddity 3. In fact the majority of the melody/arps in the track is Oddity 3. PRESS EIGHT NOW has actually been signed for release as part of a 3-track EP on Late Night Munchies, in April '23.

Back to EXTREMELY BORING: I didn't drop the level of the lead - I think this is what happens when you go from one set of monitors to another. I will play around with raising the volume and bringing it more in to central prominence in places. Regarding playing around with verbs/delays etc. I do a huge amount playing around with FX a lot. Often bouncing down an idea - and repeat another set of FX ideas - and then running through even more processing on the bounces and merging the different ideas together... to turn them into an evolving soundscape - that no-one (not even myself) can work out how I did it. It's like a blackhole that you can't escape from once you experiment with all of that!

Overall thought - thanks for the pointers, likes/dislikes and general overall interest in the makings of what makes electronic music a super fun hobby - and it is always appreciated to hear that I'm not going completely mad with something I only like.
Very cool, thanks for the insights on the Oddity 3. Never would have guessed! Great news about the EP. You're well on your way to getting more material signed if you keep up with what you're doing. Thanks for taking my feedback as a listener and I hope none of it seemed off putting. As you can tell from the length of my responses, I tend to chase every aspect of this hobby (as it is to me) straight down the rabbit hole! A blessing and a curse at times I suppose, heh. :P

Just to be clear, my first listen wasn't on a set of monitors. Probably why it sounded more present on the first listen / version. I checked on the cheap speakers built into my monitor and noticed there wasn't the significant disparity there. So it only fell off when I went to the response on my studio monitors. It's a pair of mounted BX8 Graphites. I do have Audiomutes hanging on the wall at first reflection points along with some small bass traps in the ceiling (everything firing down the length of a long room). I didn't listen at a loud volume and the speakers are set for a flat response. So nothing super crazy, but care went into the sound stage. It could be phasing or just changes in perceived loudness vs the peaks (along w/ my setup).

I would try and check it against a few other listeners and see where they perceive it in the mix (A/B the first version vs second). I'm sure you'll strike a great balance in the end and figure out what communicates your intent the best. :geek:
[AMD Ryzen 5 5600x (no OC) | 32GB RAM | Gigabyte B450 I AORUS PRO WIFI (Bios: F61d) | Radeon RX 560 4GB | Presonus Studio68c & FaderPort V2 | Arturia KeyStep | Yamaha Montage 7]

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