Don't Let Your Dreams Get In the Way (rough)

[mbfrancis]

Wrote this last year w a friend.   Sent this out for real drums and real Hammond which I just got back.   I recorded the piano at home.  This is the first rough mix.  (The bass and guitars and other parts were tracked at a friend's on PT.)  Vocals recorded in Reason, mixed in Reason.

The drums need some editing/tightening, so I will have to pull it into S1, but this is pretty close I think...let me know what you guys think....any feedback truly appreciated.

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13099320

[eusti]

Wow! That sounds very good to me. Not sure there is much more to do sound wise...

The only thing I don't like is the fast part starting at 2.39...
I feel it's almost trying to be too smart...
To me it almost felt I had missed the end of the song and a new one started, or someone changed to dial on the radio...
And then it ends very prettily!

So for me the issue is not mixing, but song writing here.

But that is of course only my opinion... I'm kind of simple in my tastes...

[mbfrancis]

Wow, thanks Eusti!  Yeah, the bridge comes out of left field, and is maybe a little *too* clever - I'm considering tweaking the music to make it more restrained, or just re-writing.  We'll see.  Thanks again!

[eusti]

Hey, I'm glad you weren't offended!

The rest is just so pretty and I think a detour there would work... But maybe this is a little too far?

Good luck with it! And be sure to show us where it goes from here!

D.

[Benedict]

Hi Mr Francis

This is pretty damned good stuff. You have stayed focused on the song and that is great. 

I often feel I want the lyric to come out at me a bit more, not sure if it is simple volume or boosting the air a bit to get us closer.

That sudden change doesn't bother me as it transitions well but just ask what purpose does it serve? It does add energy which is useful at that point and it advances the narrative. The only thing is if audiences are prepared to take the transition from smokey ballad to Garage Rock and back. Without knowing context, hard to answer.

[DeltaHotelVictory]

I like it a lot! Very professional sounding. I am not sure about the bridge either. Maybe it grows on you once you heard it a couple of times, but I could also imagine another bridge which stays in the mellow style of the rest of the track. In that case, maybe you could let the guitar solo during the bridge?

Whether you leave the song like this or change the bridge, I am really impressed either way and please do share the final master with us!

[Soft Enerji]

Overall a well thought out and well put together song. The chorus melody is quite excellent and the backing vox really makes it! The bridge does come a little as a surprise but I think it works well so IMHO I wouldn't change it. Nice work!

Mark

[Tincture]

Sounds good to me and I liked the bridge. Piano was excellent.

[mbfrancis]

Thanks all, great feedback, much appreciated.   

@Benedict - In general, for me the bridge is an opportunity to look at a song and its subject from a different perspective, both musically and lyrically.  Often I use the bridge to reveal "what's really going on" or give the subject more depth by revealing an additional layer.  So in this case, the singer comes out and gives specific context to the situation that he's been singing about.  That the music gets "happy" is less important than it changes dramatically.  But since it's happy, I always thought of it as "a celebration of settling" or a "party for the abandonment of your dreams."  So it's supposed to be ironic and misanthropic: "stop thinking you can do better than me, have a drink, let's dance."  Something like that.

This board seems much more active than the old PH Music board...I'll try to participate more.

Thanks again!
Martin

[mbfrancis]

I lived with this a bit and made some tweaks to the piano track including bringing it in in v2.  I may make some drum edits on some of the fills, plus some vocal tuning, but other than that I think this is done: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13111684

Now it just needs a formal mix.  Thanks again for all the feedback!

[jappe]

Wrote this last year w a friend.   Sent this out for real drums and real Hammond which I just got back.   I recorded the piano at home.  This is the first rough mix.  (The bass and guitars and other parts were tracked at a friend's on PT.)  Vocals recorded in Reason, mixed in Reason.

The drums need some editing/tightening, so I will have to pull it into S1, but this is pretty close I think...let me know what you guys think....any feedback truly appreciated.

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13099320

Awesome tune:-)
The off tune vocals in the beginning creates a nice contrast to the in-tune vocals later on.

When you listen to a tune, the first bit is kind of important, and perhaps there's a risk that the listener just skips listening before the in-tune vocals start.
Perhaps in the beginning there could be some vocal hint in the intro of the good things to come, to make the impatient listener aware that this tune is worth continuing listening to.

I love how it changes direction at 2:37, makes me think of The Cars for some reason.

[mbfrancis]

Awesome tune:-)
The off tune vocals in the beginning creates a nice contrast to the in-tune vocals later on.

When you listen to a tune, the first bit is kind of important, and perhaps there's a risk that the listener just skips listening before the in-tune vocals start.
Perhaps in the beginning there could be some vocal hint in the intro of the good things to come, to make the impatient listener aware that this tune is worth continuing listening to.

Thanks for your feedback!
I don't understand, though - it seems like you're saying I should tune or re-sing the vocals at the start, right?  If so, I agree.  

[pLansford]

The only thing I don't like is the fast part starting at 2.39...
I feel it's almost trying to be too smart...

I read this before listening, and after giving a proper listen, I want to elaborate on this.  Bridge comes out of left field and is way too much for me.  I know as artists we have to be bold about what we do so I'll try to work with you here.  If I was your producer and you were adamant about this, I would simply tell you to work on your transitions so that the bridge intro/outro isn't so disorienting.   8-)   You can do whatever you want if your transitions are smooth.  I love this song though.  Good work.

Edit:  Benedict said transition is smooth but I don't agree.  Take everything with a grain of salt though I guess.  

[jappe]

Awesome tune:-)
The off tune vocals in the beginning creates a nice contrast to the in-tune vocals later on.

When you listen to a tune, the first bit is kind of important, and perhaps there's a risk that the listener just skips listening before the in-tune vocals start.
Perhaps in the beginning there could be some vocal hint in the intro of the good things to come, to make the impatient listener aware that this tune is worth continuing listening to.

Thanks for your feedback!
I don't understand, though - it seems like you're saying I should tune or re-sing the vocals at the start, right?  If so, I agree.  

Hello,
I was a bit unclear, but no I didn't mean it necessarily had to be pitch corrected at the start.
When I first started listening, I heard nice voice characteristics, but I also heard pitch variations which I assumed was intentional ("creative" imperfection), but perhaps it was not?
Anyway, what I liked was the contrast between the starter vocals and the beautiful vocals starting from 00:54.
With "vocal hint" I was thinking about perhaps some beautiful subtle choir in the intro. But for me it works as it is too.

About the fast part from 2:39 - I liked it a lot. It takes the listener to a different direction but to me that was a perfect twist.

[JNeffLind]

This is great stuff man. Very professional and tight production. Love when the female voice comes in as harmony. I'm not very good at commenting on lyrics without seeing them written in front of me but the lyrical hook (chorus, whatever one calls it) was very strong. 

As for the bridge, it is a dramatic change but I think it works. It's always good to be ambitious I think, and this is an ambitious change. Perhaps a bit more could be done to smooth the transition into it though. The drums help the transition but I wonder if having your male vocalist do a bit of "vocalization" over that bit of drum crescendo might help. Just a sort of "who-oh-ah-oh-ah-oh" type of thing might smooth it a bit more. This is the type of thing where I'd just be trying a ton of different things until something seemed to work. Maybe a little run on the piano (a basic scale) over the drums, or a little bass run, or something. Just throw shit at that bar between the main body and the beginning of the bridge until it seems a bit smoother. 

That's my only critique of this otherwise excellent song. To be clear, it may very well be fine as is, but I can see where are others are coming from saying the change was a bit jarring.

[mbfrancis]

What a great board - I appreciate all the considered feedback.  It's also a great example that you can't follow *everyone's* advice, because people don't all agree.  

It does seem like the transition to the bridge could be better, although it's frustrating, because it was better in the original demo which used drum samples.  It's like it got sloppier w/ the real drums.  I'll see what I can do, but man I really want to put this to bed.

Thanks again, stay tuned.

[ebop]

Great little tune this! I really liked the uptempo section. I didn't want it to stop. I know it's too late, but I'd have really liked that uptempo section to have kept going right to the end and in doing so it wouldn't have been sandwiched between two slow tempo sections and stick out so much. When it kicked in, it had that get up, jump around, throw the hands up, crowd sing along vibe to it. Man, catchy as. Like many songs with these kinda sections (moments), I never want them to end, but alas they always do

[Wensell]

Great song, great voice and well-produced! I would also let the bridge part last longer, all the way to the end, so it would be two separate parts within one song. Here's an example from Arcade Fire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zdNdjF-htY from 03:50. 
What if the second part builds momentum, instead of going all in right away? Starting with one instrument, and adding layer by layer.
Just my opinion, for what it's worth  

[mbfrancis]

Lol love it, you guys are killing me ha - I have been working on a set of songs for >2 years, and this is the one that is closest to being 100% done - like all I'm doing is tuning some vocals and moving some drums around and then mixing - and you guys want a re-arrangement (love that Arcade Fire track BTW)!

Maybe if inspired (later) I'll do a less quirky version with a mellow bridge and less misanthropic lyrics - more "seize the day" and less "you'll never do better than me."  Super pop top to bottom.  For now I'll keep this as is.

But these are great ideas - I'll try to post my next thing earlier in the process.  Thanks, all!

[mbfrancis]

OK I did some extensive editing - mostly subtle bass and drum pocketing - and tuning, and I think this is sounding pretty good.  The initial drum editing was done in S1 (quantizing) but the final messing was in Reason.  Painful because dropping in one extra tom hit requires 9 new tracks to mix in.  Vocal tuning was in Melodyn stand alone.

This song is challenging because of all the parts, so I still may tweak it a bit, but this might be as good as I can mix it.  A friend did a quick master and added some high end, removed some mids.
Let me know what you guys think.  Pretty much done?
http://soundclick.com/share.cf.....d=13128279