Which instrument would you like a Refill of???

Need some fresh sounds? Want to show off your sound design skills? Here's the place!
jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

26 May 2018

A list of the synths I’ve got reliably working.

Korg Polysix
Korg Microkorg
Korg Monotribe
Korg MS-20mini
DSI Prophet 08
Roland Alpha Juno 1
Access Virus C
Waldorf Blofeld
Moog Slim Phatty
Novation Bass Station II
Oberheim Matrix-12

The sampler will be the venerable and amazing
Ensoniq EPS 16+

The recordings will be made into the sampler and treated there, then multisampled into NN-XT and various Combinators.


I’m currently working on a “mega” refill that contains all of these instruments, but I’d love to release just one that everyone can have and try and give me feedback on.

SO: What does Reason Talk think? The most “exotic” is the Matrix-12, but since we will be relying on the EPS for filtering and sound mangling, there isn’t much really intense programming I can do. The Moog for sure has “a sound”, and it sounds amazing as a polysynth! A sleeper in the list is the Bass Station II, and I’m quite keen on getting some classic polysynth patches from it to make wonderful EP and pad sounds inside the EPS. The Monotribe has a very unique oscillator that lends itself well to thick and fuzzy pads, and all the monosynths have a single mono output, which fits the mono sample input to the EPS 16+...the stereo content is going to come from stacking and panning layers, and from the truly excellent effects chip inside the sampler.

You’ll get some really sweet soaring pads with lots of shine on them, as well as some nasty grungy poly sounds that have lots of “holes” from real-time sample interpolation errors. I’ve proven this can work by recording every third note (C,D#,F#,A) in my super clean and sparkly EMU e5000 Ultra. It faithfully reproduced all the lovely flaws of the EPS, and I’m excited to share them with those of you who may never have used a hardware sampler! Your opinions matter, and if I get a lot of requests maybe I’ll try and make a grab bag of sounds from each synth. Either way, even the intro instrument will be recorded with 8 velocity layers and a fully edited set of presets and combinators. I’m currently looking into how to sample the reverbs from the sampler....I think perhaps a one sample spike at -.03dBFS and record the results to audio and edit out that initial spike. The chorus and flanger, and compressor and distortion are all going to need a sweet sine convolution, and while I DO have the Voxengo deco bomber I really don’t know how to use it yet!

So I think BSII....but I would really like to hear what YOU think?!!?
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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Zac
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27 May 2018

For me it would be the monotribe since it's a budget synth that gets overlooked. Bass Station II would be great too. Thanks in advance.

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

27 May 2018

Zac wrote:
27 May 2018
For me it would be the monotribe since it's a budget synth that gets overlooked. Bass Station II would be great too. Thanks in advance.
The Monotribe actually has a lot of “weight” to its sound, and played as a polyphonic instrument it has a really cool sound.

Since you answered first, that’s what I’ll grab the sample of....the Korg Monotribe. Can I just share a link to the refill here in this thread from my Dropbox?
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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Zac
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28 May 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
27 May 2018
Zac wrote:
27 May 2018
For me it would be the monotribe since it's a budget synth that gets overlooked. Bass Station II would be great too. Thanks in advance.
The Monotribe actually has a lot of “weight” to its sound, and played as a polyphonic instrument it has a really cool sound.

Since you answered first, that’s what I’ll grab the sample of....the Korg Monotribe. Can I just share a link to the refill here in this thread from my Dropbox?
Thanks Jimmy, that will be great! I think that a dropbox link will work. No doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

28 May 2018

Working on the Monotribe this morning. Not sure if I’ll be able to get the first patch created before I head to work, but if possible I’ll release just the first NN-XT patch for everybody and then I can work on combinators and additional samples for a small (~500MB) refill of this single instrument. It will be a pretty dirty and gnarly sound. So far I’ve sampled A440 at 14.8kHz, and am using the single note up and down the keys to really allow the sampler to give you its characteristic sound.
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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Zac
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28 May 2018

That all sounds good to me! :)

botnotbot
Posts: 290
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29 May 2018

Cool initiative!

I'd like to vote for the Bass Station II to get the treatment at some point too.

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selig
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Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

29 May 2018

So cool, can’t wait to see what you come up with! I rocked the hell out of my EPS for years both on stage and in the studio (used the sequencer a LOT for song starters, including almost an entire album of material).

If you ever run across a CS80, I’d LOVE to see what you can do with that.

If you’re not already thinking about it, please consider releasing the samples in a more “pure” state as well, as the EPS color is not going to necessarily be for everyone… [emoji6]


Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk
Selig Audio, LLC

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

29 May 2018

My very first refill ever. I've never actually used the sampling feature in Reason, but today I present to you a very simple patch. This is the Korg Monotribe sampled into the Ensoniq EPS 16+ @ 22.3kHz with just one single note....A440. I play up and down the keyboard, and have sampled every 3rd key to get the full sound of the EPS as well as the Monotribe.

I'm planning on making a more fully-featured ReFill....one with many of my classic synths sampled, resampled, mangled, and processed and then painstakingly sampling them live into Reason. It will be a long process....for example, on the sampler this patch has velocity sensitive filter envelope amount, but I only sampled it at a velocity of 127. Try using the features in NN-XT to create your own patches based off of these samples....I'd love to see them posted here!

Korg Monotribe Polysynth: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ca4le5qdvc6jp ... h.rfl?dl=0


Enjoy!

Please comment here on the ReFill....I realize that it's nowhere NEAR perfect, or even a proper professional release. I just wanted to give the community something as soon as I could.
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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selig
RE Developer
Posts: 11685
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

29 May 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
29 May 2018
My very first refill ever. I've never actually used the sampling feature in Reason, but today I present to you a very simple patch. This is the Korg Monotribe sampled into the Ensoniq EPS 16+ @ 22.3kHz with just one single note....A440. I play up and down the keyboard, and have sampled every 3rd key to get the full sound of the EPS as well as the Monotribe.

I'm planning on making a more fully-featured ReFill....one with many of my classic synths sampled, resampled, mangled, and processed and then painstakingly sampling them live into Reason. It will be a long process....for example, on the sampler this patch has velocity sensitive filter envelope amount, but I only sampled it at a velocity of 127. Try using the features in NN-XT to create your own patches based off of these samples....I'd love to see them posted here!

Korg Monotribe Polysynth: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ca4le5qdvc6jp ... h.rfl?dl=0


Enjoy!

Please comment here on the ReFill....I realize that it's nowhere NEAR perfect, or even a proper professional release. I just wanted to give the community something as soon as I could.
I'll check it out for sure!

BTW, I have a technique for sampling dynamics (for any sounds that are dynamic) and accurately reproducing them if you're interested.
Selig Audio, LLC

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

29 May 2018

selig wrote:
29 May 2018

I'll check it out for sure!

BTW, I have a technique for sampling dynamics (for any sounds that are dynamic) and accurately reproducing them if you're interested.
I'm extremely interested! I know how to make that happen in my own samplers, of course, and I used the NN-XT amp envelope to provide volume dynamics, however, I really...REALLY....didn't want to do an 8-layer sample set for such a simple sound. Please share what you know!
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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selig
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Posts: 11685
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

29 May 2018

Quick feedback - samples are typically ordered low to high pitch. Chromatic would be ideal of course, but takes up more space.

You may want to consider an app that runs the sampling process for you, then use the EPS to create cool variations and modifications. IMO, if you're going to bother sampling a cool synth, you should have clean versions of as many notes as possible, and auto sampling makes that job MUCH easier.
Read more here:
https://jimatwood.wordpress.com/2010/12 ... nths-best/
Selig Audio, LLC

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

29 May 2018

selig wrote:
29 May 2018
Quick feedback - samples are typically ordered low to high pitch. Chromatic would be ideal of course, but takes up more space.

You may want to consider an app that runs the sampling process for you, then use the EPS to create cool variations and modifications. IMO, if you're going to bother sampling a cool synth, you should have clean versions of as many notes as possible, and auto sampling makes that job MUCH easier.
Read more here:
https://jimatwood.wordpress.com/2010/12 ... nths-best/
I used to have clean samples created by Sample Robot for almost all of my synths, so I could play live with just the Emu Ultra sampler and a few keyboards....however, those are lost.

I may have to buy Sample Robot again, as this is a huge project. Also, I had no idea the order should go Low to High...I've been sampling High-to-Low for 15 years!!! Is that a convention from the film world?
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

29 May 2018

I almost forgot! I own EMU X3!!! It has the feature called synth swipe that can create all the samples for me. Selig, I'm glad you mentioned it.
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

29 May 2018

selig wrote:
29 May 2018
Quick feedback - samples are typically ordered low to high pitch. Chromatic would be ideal of course, but takes up more space.

You may want to consider an app that runs the sampling process for you, then use the EPS to create cool variations and modifications. IMO, if you're going to bother sampling a cool synth, you should have clean versions of as many notes as possible, and auto sampling makes that job MUCH easier.
Read more here:
https://jimatwood.wordpress.com/2010/12 ... nths-best/
I’ve got a 4 layer velocity switch patch auto sampling now. I’ll place them low to high, thank you for that.

I still believe that for a simple patch like this, every 3rd note is plenty. I’m recording the EPS currently, but when I do the Bass Station II next I’ll create both vanilla patches as well as “colored” patches ran through several of my samplers and processing.

I like the idea of having the processing built-in to the patch, for example, on its way to the EPS, the Monotribe ran through a really nice Demeter Tube DI into a Neve for makeup gain, and there is a little low-end “bloom” from saturating the transformers. That, along with the native sound of the EPS gives the refill some unique character that you really can’t get any other way. That’s sort of my philosophy behind creating color-only refills, if that makes any sense.

You’re absolutely correct that they won’t be for everyone. Some people will want to have the exact sound of the BSII (or whichever synth I’m sampling)....which is why I’ll take your advice and provide that.
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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selig
RE Developer
Posts: 11685
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

29 May 2018

jimmyklane wrote:
29 May 2018
selig wrote:
29 May 2018

I'll check it out for sure!

BTW, I have a technique for sampling dynamics (for any sounds that are dynamic) and accurately reproducing them if you're interested.
I'm extremely interested! I know how to make that happen in my own samplers, of course, and I used the NN-XT amp envelope to provide volume dynamics, however, I really...REALLY....didn't want to do an 8-layer sample set for such a simple sound. Please share what you know!
The idea is how to recreate smooth dynamics across the 0-127 velocity range without having to sample at 127 different levels! Here's the background.
If you were to sample only three samples for one note, soft, medium, and loud, how would you map them in the NNXT? If you left their levels as recorded and used the velocity ranges to switch between the samples, there would be jumps when you played between different dynamic levels. If you instead used Velocity Level to apply level changes via velocity, they would be imposed on TOP of the dynamics recorded in the samples, exaggerating the dynamics. The solution is to measure the level of each sample, then normalize it and use the NNXT's dynamics instead. But how do we know where to set the velocity split points to restore the proper dynamics?

You use my handy chart, which was created by playing a sine wave sample at 127 different velocities, and at 10 different Velocity Level (depth) amounts.
Screen Shot 2018-05-29 at 12.20.55 PM.png
Screen Shot 2018-05-29 at 12.20.55 PM.png (573.29 KiB) Viewed 2010 times
First you take/make your samples (acoustic or electronic sources) that cover the instruments complete dynamic range, from the softest to the loudest possible note. For acoustic instruments, you just play as many levels as you can from softest to loudest, then sort through the recordings to choose the sample set that best covers the range. For electronic instruments it's easier, either using auto sampling or a MIDI sequence playing notes from soft to loud.

Then you edit each sample and note it's peak level (I put it in the sample name), then normalize it. Why normalize it? Because we need a static level from every sample as a "level" starting point, then we use the dynamics of the sampler (in this case NNXT) to accurately restore the proper dynamics.

So how do we know what level the NNXT will play each sample at? For this process I created a spread sheet showing what playback level was produced at various velocities and level "depth" settings on the NNXT, by loading a sine wave and playing each velocity level from MIDI, and noting the levels. Then I created the chart I showed above, as a reference to figure out what "LO VEL" and "HI VEL" to use for each sample to get it to playback correctly, level wise.

What I found was that for each Velocity Level/depth setting, there was a specific dynamic range represented. 60% gives you 24 dB from the softest to the loudest note. That is to say, a velocity of 1 produces a level that is 24 dB below a velocity of 127. With me so far?

Here are the ranges covered by different Level settings:
100% = 100 dB DR
90% = 60 dB DR
80% = 40 dB DR
70% = 30 dB DR
60% = 24 dB DR
50% = 18 dB DR
40% = 12 dB DR
30% = 9 dB DR
20% = 6 dB DR
10% = 3 dB DR
0% = 0 dB DR (no dynamics)

So you choose your overall depth you need to cover, according to the range your samples cover. For example if the difference between your loudest and softest sample was 28 dB, you would choose a depth of 70% and then use the chart to match each sample to the correct velocity range. You can always change the depth later, to compress or expand the range if needed.

In the above example, our lowest sample would center around a velocity of 3 because that produces a playback level of -27.6 dB below the loudest sample. Your loudest sample would be set to cover the top range, and all levels in between would be mapped accordingly. Here's one way to do the mapping:
Screen Shot 2018-05-29 at 12.50.33 PM.png
Screen Shot 2018-05-29 at 12.50.33 PM.png (54.53 KiB) Viewed 2010 times

Here is the chart in PDF and CSV format:
Velocity %22Depth Chart%22.pdf
(63.53 KiB) Downloaded 46 times
Velocity %22Depth Chart%22.csv
(7.72 KiB) Downloaded 40 times

Hope that all made sense, and you (or anyone else) finds this information useful!
:)
Selig Audio, LLC

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

29 May 2018

Damn. That was a detailed answer my friend! I’ll have to study and implement this, as that’s ALWAYS been the key....get a fair amount of samples into the sampler and then use its synthesis parameters to make it “real”.... in this case, because the FILTER response is baked-in, but no amplitude parameters, I can simply use
velocity—>level and it will be fine. I’ll have to apply your chart and tactics to the filter response. Given NN-XTs age I would guess that the velocity response and perhaps the envelopes are linear. I’ll have to try and test that....however all the data you’ve given me should make my task quite a bit easier.

I will say that when you’ve got 8 layers or more for a synth type sound it’s often enough to be undetectable unless it’s both an extremely dynamically sensitive sound (FM via velocity, etc) or it’s exposed as a solo instrument in a mix.
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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selig
RE Developer
Posts: 11685
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

29 May 2018

Started messing with these samples (MonoTribe). Accidentally assigned all samples across entire keyboard (was testing the Set Root Notes from Pitch Detection), found a cool sound!
Sounds like the poly synths Todd Rungren used (made me want to play all the Todd songs I know!).

Check it out:
MonoTribeSuperStack.sxt.zip
(1.84 KiB) Downloaded 58 times
Selig Audio, LLC

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eusti
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29 May 2018

Wow! Giles, what a thoughtful post! Thank you for this... Not in the situation that I need this info right now, but it always makes me happy when I see / read that someone put a lot of thought into tackling a complex situation! Thank you!

D.

avasopht
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Posts: 3931
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

29 May 2018

This is why I stick with Reason. You won't find anything like this anywhere else!!!

botnotbot
Posts: 290
Joined: 26 Oct 2017

29 May 2018

I'm following this thread with great interest. The built-in sampling functionality of Reason makes it feel like there is a potentially great RE-based solution to replace the famous AutoSampler (which I've used in it's somewhat reduced form in MainStage for some CZ-1 samples, only some of which didn't suffer from an audio interface defect).

Yet another RE idea for the backlog :)

And Selig, that is an amazing bit of sharing there. Can't wait to apply it in some way or another.

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

29 May 2018

So it seems like the majority asked for the Bass Station II....and I happen to have a super rich sound programmed on the EPS. Very little coloration in the patch that I first sampled, and then a ton of gritty grunge in the second. They will come in a new refill containing the Monotribe as well as the BSII
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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sinnerfire
Posts: 184
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: London
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06 Jun 2018

jimmyklane wrote:A list of the synths I’ve got reliably working.

Korg Polysix
Korg Microkorg
Korg Monotribe
Korg MS-20mini
DSI Prophet 08
Roland Alpha Juno 1
Access Virus C
Waldorf Blofeld
Moog Slim Phatty
Novation Bass Station II
Oberheim Matrix-12

[/b]
Hi there, please please please can you make a Access Virus C Refill, I make drum n bass and that would make my whole year [emoji173]️

Thanks [emoji1303]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
https://drumandbassasylum.com/ Free Samples + Presets for Reason.

jimmyklane
Posts: 740
Joined: 16 Apr 2018

28 Jun 2018

EPS 16+ Refill almost completed. In the process of making some simple combinator artwork and programming the interface.

I’m going to make a few sounds specifically for owners of Distributor, to give a bit of life to the sampled patches. The EPS has a great randomization function that can be simulated in an 8-Voice configuration using distributor.

I’ve sampled basic and complex waveforms from the:

Moog Slim Phatty
Notation Bass Station II
Korg Monotribe
Korg MS20
Access Virus

Along with some great drums from the SP-1200 and MPC2000(classic)

The programming stages are taking WAY longer than the actual sampling did! All that keymapping and programming of the NN-XT takes a really long time when you’ve got 500+ samples for each instrument!
DAW: Reason 12

SAMPLERS: Akai MPC 2000, E-mu SP1200, E-Mu e5000Ultra, Ensoniq EPS 16+, Akai S950, Maschine

SYNTHS: Mostly classic Polysynths and more modern Monosynths. All are mostly food for my samplers!

www.soundcloud.com/jimmyklane

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Zac
Posts: 1784
Joined: 19 May 2016
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28 Jun 2018

:thumbs_up: :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up:
:shock: :D :mrgreen:

Can't wait!

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