Recreating Proton patch in Grain

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seqoi
Posts: 417
Joined: 12 Aug 2017

30 Oct 2017

I am kinda struggling when learning Grain. Can anyone with Proton open attached patch and tell me what type of Grain oscillator should be selected to sound similar to Proton patch but inside Grain.

I mean how can i repeat this Proton behavior with Grain. Spectral grains, Long Grains?

Can anyone help me recreating this Proton patch and it's grain behavior in Grain synth. It's (i assume) nothing spectacular, rather simple (i a musing Propellerheads Factory sample so it should load correctly in Reason 10 easily.

Help needed and very appreciated.. :)
Attachments
Dreadful.zip
Proton patch
(2.44 KiB) Downloaded 41 times

Southgate
Posts: 127
Joined: 05 Feb 2016

31 Oct 2017

Just a quick stab at it....

You might wanna put it in another section of the forum to get more responses.

Cheers

S
Attachments
dread Grain.rar
(1.87 KiB) Downloaded 30 times

Southgate
Posts: 127
Joined: 05 Feb 2016

31 Oct 2017

Whoops...forgot the effects...

S
Attachments
dread Grain fx.zip
(2 KiB) Downloaded 33 times

seqoi
Posts: 417
Joined: 12 Aug 2017

31 Oct 2017

Man that worked!!

Thank you so much you helped me a lot in learning.

Respect!!

User avatar
AttenuationHz
Posts: 2048
Joined: 20 Mar 2015
Location: Back of the Rack-1

31 Oct 2017

seqoi wrote:
30 Oct 2017
I am kinda struggling when learning Grain. Can anyone with Proton open attached patch and tell me what type of Grain oscillator should be selected to sound similar to Proton patch but inside Grain.

I mean how can i repeat this Proton behavior with Grain. Spectral grains, Long Grains?

Can anyone help me recreating this Proton patch and it's grain behavior in Grain synth. It's (i assume) nothing spectacular, rather simple (i a musing Propellerheads Factory sample so it should load correctly in Reason 10 easily.

Help needed and very appreciated.. :)

Well there is a good few things happening with the Proton patch that Grain is not capable of doing.

Firstly though engine 2 on Proton is capturing an area then repeating it many times but also moving through the sample. The only similar control on Grain is called Scroll and you can only access it through a combinator but because the capture area on Grain is related to L/R zoom to get the similar capture area you have to zoom right in. That is the first curve ball Grain is unable to capture and move passed the capture area at the same time as scrolling through. On proton the capture area is not related to zoom.
Next is the LFO which is moving Protons Position/ Grains Scroll (P/S). The LFO's on Proton I believe are triangle/sawtooth waveforms. There is no Triangle LFO on Grain. But you can set the Envelopes on Grain to be custom LFO's.
The FX section is much different and the routing is key for the loudness of the Phaser but Grains phaser and Delay can't produce the exact same settings. Engine 2 on Proton I don't think would be reproducible on Grain imo. I was trying to do it there but was unable to come close.

The key thing on Proton that is different is the PRCS (precision) it is a random value but you can set the random value on Proton. It is a set random value on Grain. I have not seen a way to reproduce the proton patch on grain myself maybe with a few Grains you might be able to.
It is not too much of an ask for people or things to be the best version of itself!

seqoi
Posts: 417
Joined: 12 Aug 2017

31 Oct 2017

Thanks but above patch posted by Southgate was close enough for me. I tuned it a bit and sound is almost the same. I see Proton is different which is a cool thing but i want to keep it simple so i'll stick with Grain. I adore Proton GUI but can't stand that wasted space and ugly metal texture. Not that important i know but i am sucker for great and usable GUI. So Grain is the choice for now. But Proton is not useless just different.

Great instruments none the less.

Regards and once again thanks.

Southgate
Posts: 127
Joined: 05 Feb 2016

31 Oct 2017

No probs buddy...glad it came close. At least you can see what I did to get there.

I am finding that Grain is not quite up-to-par in some areas compared to Proton...which is somewhat disappointing as I too wanted to work with Grain solely where possible. I now own 3 granular synths (Grain, Proton and The Mangle) on my mission to get one that does all tricks.

They all have their pros and cons.

Thanks again and happy patch making and exploring of Grain!

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selig
RE Developer
Posts: 11685
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

31 Oct 2017

seqoi wrote:
31 Oct 2017
Thanks but above patch posted by Southgate was close enough for me. I tuned it a bit and sound is almost the same. I see Proton is different which is a cool thing but i want to keep it simple so i'll stick with Grain. I adore Proton GUI but can't stand that wasted space and ugly metal texture. Not that important i know but i am sucker for great and usable GUI. So Grain is the choice for now. But Proton is not useless just different.

Great instruments none the less.

Regards and once again thanks.
Some see wasted space, other see uncluttered layout (and good use of "white space").
Certainly no more "wasted" space than instruments such as ReTron, Parsec, Radical Pianos, Antidote, etc.
I guess it could have been filled with fake vents or developer logos etc…

I prefer to see it as "room to grow"…
;)

I see room for both instruments in my rack, as each leads me in a different direction even as similar as they may be.
Selig Audio, LLC

Southgate
Posts: 127
Joined: 05 Feb 2016

31 Oct 2017

I see why Giles (Selig) might be somewhat perturbed by the GUI comments...as I believe that he was designer on those...

Personally...I posted my feelings on the GUI upon release of Proton early in 2017. A fair amount of dissatisfaction that came from staring at the graphics of the 'Naughties' graphics and style etc...but truth be told...Proton was and still is the most capable and technically great synths that have been released with the new RE format!!!

I really use it a lot! My purchase was worth every penny! Gustav and Giles did an excellent job - Minus the GUI.

I believe that...if it looked like a modern soft synth or even Grain...it would have been picked up by people, left, right and center.

Function = "yes" but "form" equally as important (In my opinion of course).

:thumbs_up:

seqoi
Posts: 417
Joined: 12 Aug 2017

01 Nov 2017

selig wrote:
31 Oct 2017

Some see wasted space, other see uncluttered layout (and good use of "white space").
Certainly no more "wasted" space than instruments such as ReTron, Parsec, Radical Pianos, Antidote, etc.
I guess it could have been filled with fake vents or developer logos etc…

I prefer to see it as "room to grow"…
;)

I see room for both instruments in my rack, as each leads me in a different direction even as similar as they may be.
Hello mr Selig. I did not know you are developer of this instrument. I was under impression you created some patches for it. I apologize but i rarely look for these details. I absolutely LOVE your dynamics and tool RE's and i recommend them to anyone. I played more with Proton yesterday and i am going to keep it. When you say "room to grow" this is precisely what i was thinking yesterday. Something like: wow why so much wasted space, why so big wheels and all that maybe developer of this will upgrade it someday. See screenshot to better understand what i meant. Plus i don't like metal texture but like i said it's only me.

Proton is by every mean great instrument and i decided to keep it. Yesterday i created a patch which i called "Predator on lonely planet" haha because it sounded like from Predator movie.

Anyway keep up the good work. You definitely have great ear and great products. I hope they became viable for you so you can focus even more to them.
Attachments
proton.jpg
proton.jpg (135.17 KiB) Viewed 987 times

User avatar
selig
RE Developer
Posts: 11685
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

01 Nov 2017

seqoi wrote:
selig wrote:
31 Oct 2017

Some see wasted space, other see uncluttered layout (and good use of "white space").
Certainly no more "wasted" space than instruments such as ReTron, Parsec, Radical Pianos, Antidote, etc.
I guess it could have been filled with fake vents or developer logos etc…

I prefer to see it as "room to grow"…
;)

I see room for both instruments in my rack, as each leads me in a different direction even as similar as they may be.
Hello mr Selig. I did not know you are developer of this instrument. I was under impression you created some patches for it. I apologize but i rarely look for these details. I absolutely LOVE your dynamics and tool RE's and i recommend them to anyone. I played more with Proton yesterday and i am going to keep it. When you say "room to grow" this is precisely what i was thinking yesterday. Something like: wow why so much wasted space, why so big wheels and all that maybe developer of this will upgrade it someday. See screenshot to better understand what i meant. Plus i don't like metal texture but like i said it's only me.

Proton is by every mean great instrument and i decided to keep it. Yesterday i created a patch which i called "Predator on lonely planet" haha because it sounded like from Predator movie.

Anyway keep up the good work. You definitely have great ear and great products. I hope they became viable for you so you can focus even more to them.
I was the co-developer with Love One, probably better to call me the “instrument designer” more than anything else. We were up against a deadline to introduce this with the new SDK, so it was a VERY short development time initially. That’s why we chose to simply ‘borrow’ the look from other Love One devices - there was no time to design from scratch, which of course would be preferred.

I understand the “wasted space” argument, but look at the synths I mentioned as they have similar amounts of “wasted space”. I’m NOT a fan of filling every square inch with controls, so I would never consider an instrument with NO wasted space a good design.

FWIW, there were other controls in the left area but were moved into the main UI for clarity. That left only one control there besides the PB/MW.

Again, we had other ideas for that space that may one day be realized so thought it best not to fill it up now!
(Even then it would not be 100% filled with controls).


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Selig Audio, LLC

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