Orchestra Bass Instruments

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Mistro17
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11 Sep 2017

I have Chambre from Softphonics and love the instruments but I'm having trouble with the bass. The attack seems off or I'm just new to using a DAW and don't know how to tweak it yet. When I press the keys for the bass, the first note seems clean but then it sounds like it's lagging no matter how much I stay on beat with the metronome. I even went into the effects devices and dialed the attack way forward.

Can the Bass in Chambre or any native Reason bass be tweaked to give a warm smooth sound with good attack like you hear in a soundtrack? Is there any other Orchestra bass refills out there that's recommended?

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aeox
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11 Sep 2017

Could you provide an example of what you're aiming for and maybe a sample of what you currently have?

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PurpleMonkeyDishes
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12 Sep 2017

The problem is not with the bass or chambre per say, Like with all sample based audio creation tools, end user adjustment is almost certainly needed for individualization.
With reason you have an array of tools for altering as you know, and if you want to edit a sample in particular just highlight it and adjust accordingly. If you are new to the DAW you will get used to it in time, but your issue sounds more like you need to edit your audio to suit your tempo and song etc.. Record your note to a new audio track and move and edit them on their own if you have to!
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Mistro17
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12 Sep 2017

aeox wrote:
11 Sep 2017
Could you provide an example of what you're aiming for and maybe a sample of what you currently have?
I'm actually attempting this for an animated video I'm working on. In this song in the Narnia soundtrack (which I love) The bass hits effectively and smooth. The Basses I tried so far sounds more like wind instruments...very hollow. The best Bass I found in my arsenal is the one in Chembre but still. Listen to the bass from 1:02 onward. That's what I'm looking for. You can actually feel it hit especially with good speakers..

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aeox
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12 Sep 2017

It really sounds like it's layered with a synthetic sub bass

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Mistro17
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12 Sep 2017

aeox wrote:
12 Sep 2017
It really sounds like it's layered with a synthetic sub bass
Thanks. I tried layering it with a Thor Bass (Basic Round) and played around in the programmer to soften it up. Sounds much better. I guess I have to remember that movie productions also run their stuff through post production tools and they probably did a lot of tweaking to the raw recordings. PurpleMonkeyDishes, Thanks for your tips also.

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etyrnal
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13 Sep 2017

Mistro17 wrote:I have Chambre from Softphonics and love the instruments but I'm having trouble with the bass. The attack seems off or I'm just new to using a DAW and don't know how to tweak it yet. When I press the keys for the bass, the first note seems clean but then it sounds like it's lagging no matter how much I stay on beat with the metronome. I even went into the effects devices and dialed the attack way forward.

Can the Bass in Chambre or any native Reason bass be tweaked to give a warm smooth sound with good attack like you hear in a soundtrack? Is there any other Orchestra bass refills out there that's recommended?
What latency do you have on your setup?

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etyrnal
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13 Sep 2017

Mistro17 wrote:
aeox wrote:
11 Sep 2017
Could you provide an example of what you're aiming for and maybe a sample of what you currently have?
I'm actually attempting this for an animated video I'm working on. In this song in the Narnia soundtrack (which I love) The bass hits effectively and smooth. The Basses I tried so far sounds more like wind instruments...very hollow. The best Bass I found in my arsenal is the one in Chembre but still. Listen to the bass from 1:02 onward. That's what I'm looking for. You can actually feel it hit especially with good speakers..
You're comparing the sound of a real Orchestra to some refills or sound Banks? You know that a real Orchestra also has percussive instruments to alter people's perception of the attack of certain sections of the orchestra right? For example times or timpani drums struck at the same moments that the base notes are sounding, Etc

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etyrnal
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13 Sep 2017

Mistro17 wrote:I have Chambre from Softphonics and love the instruments but I'm having trouble with the bass. The attack seems off or I'm just new to using a DAW and don't know how to tweak it yet. When I press the keys for the bass, the first note seems clean but then it sounds like it's lagging no matter how much I stay on beat with the metronome. I even went into the effects devices and dialed the attack way forward.

Can the Bass in Chambre or any native Reason bass be tweaked to give a warm smooth sound with good attack like you hear in a soundtrack? Is there any other Orchestra bass refills out there that's recommended?
Are you just talking about the attack of the samples or instruments you're using? Or the timing? Typically bass instruments take a longer amount of time to develop their full amplitude because they normally have bigger strings or longer strings or heavier strings or bigger skins on the drums or larger volumes of air in the tubes, Etc. It takes more time for a base instrument to develop its power from the moment the note is sounded. Sometimes these players have to anticipate where the loudest point of the sound is and actually learn how to play where they slightly proceeded the timing of the rest of the orchestra. One thing you could do would be to bounce that track to an audio track and then visually move the track slightly to the left until the peaks of the bass sounds are lined up where you want them to be on the beats

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motuscott
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13 Sep 2017

etyrnal wrote:
13 Sep 2017
Mistro17 wrote: Sometimes these players have to anticipate where the loudest point of the sound is and actually learn how to play where they slightly proceeded the timing of the rest of the orchestra.

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This sounds suspiciously like musicianship.
Who’s using the royal plural now baby? 🧂

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Mistro17
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13 Sep 2017

etyrnal wrote:
13 Sep 2017

What latency do you have on your setup?

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I have a U-Phoria UMC22 audio interface...it's not that.

I understand we're using refills and not real instruments. I didn't mean to compare the 2 but just showing the sound I was trying to create within Reason.....it is art after all. :)

The main concern I had was the attack. I'm finding ways to mimic the bass in that Narnia piece. So far adding a layered synth bass as aeox suspected seems to be working. I'm also studying the real world orchestras and the instruments and how musicians actually play them to get a better idea of how I can play the various instruments with my keyboard to get close to convincing results. But I don't expect to get the sound to be just as good.

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etyrnal
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13 Sep 2017


motuscott wrote:
etyrnal wrote:
13 Sep 2017
This sounds suspiciously like musicianship.
... it's becoming rare



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etyrnal
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13 Sep 2017


etyrnal wrote:
motuscott wrote: ... it's becoming rare



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Not only is it becoming rare, but with less and less musicianship around, they are starting to adapt software more and more to the people who know less and less, so that the people who do know more are kind of hamstrung and crippled by interfaces that are placating the unexperienced.



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etyrnal
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13 Sep 2017

Mistro17 wrote:
etyrnal wrote:
13 Sep 2017

What latency do you have on your setup?

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I have a U-Phoria UMC22 audio interface...it's not that.

I understand we're using refills and not real instruments. I didn't mean to compare the 2 but just showing the sound I was trying to create within Reason.....it is art after all. :)

The main concern I had was the attack. I'm finding ways to mimic the bass in that Narnia piece. So far adding a layered synth bass as aeox suspected seems to be working. I'm also studying the real world orchestras and the instruments and how musicians actually play them to get a better idea of how I can play the various instruments with my keyboard to get close to convincing results. But I don't expect to get the sound to be just as good.
Well if you think of it this way, a person playing an upright Bass when they start Bowing the string, the minute they start pushing the bow across the string, the string has not developed its maximum level of vibration yet. It starts from the initial squeak of the rosin until the string starts moving in the direction of the bow, and then losing its grip and jumping back on the bow over and over again, and it takes a moment for the mass of that big heavy string to start oscillating at its maximum amplitude. When you strike a key in a sampler it starts playing that sample from the moment the rosin grips the string and starts trying to push it, that is not in the moment that a bass player would line up on a downbeat or a beat or whatever. They would be starting to bow that string just slightly before because they know how long it takes for the strings to develop their maximum amplitude. They have to play slightly ahead of the orchestra. You could also try looking at the sample, measuring the amount of time between the beginning of the sample, to the first part of the sample where the envelope has gotten to its maximum volume, and then you could shift all the midi notes of that track earlier in time by that same amount.

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leonxx1983
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17 Sep 2017

Some nice basses in Euphonic strings http://zampled.com/

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normen
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17 Sep 2017

What etyrnal said, each instrument requires its own timing as the sound is in most cases not created instantly, not even for a Piano where the mechanism has to move the hammer first. Same applies when you play some sample instrument, you will have to adapt to its timing.

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motuscott
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17 Sep 2017

Normen, I thought you left us. I welcome your return as a voice of sanity.
Not to dismiss our usual choir of sanity, this website is better than most...
Who’s using the royal plural now baby? 🧂

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syncanonymous
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04 Oct 2017

I didn't listen to the Narnia ref, yet

I noticed inconsistencies with the Chambre Bass/Dbl Bass samples; some zones have more hammer-on attack if memory serves (I think it is F-Gb) at a guess, maybe another zone as well. It is the recorded samples. I don't know if Encore has better Bass/Double Bass. Encore is minimum Reason 9 and I m still on 8.

If you are facing a deadline, you could try extending the zones to cover; it might be the lesser of two evils.

I love the Softphonic stuff, so little imperfections are part of the deal at such a friendly price :-)
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kitekrazy
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06 Oct 2017

Mistro17 wrote:
11 Sep 2017
I have Chambre from Softphonics and love the instruments but I'm having trouble with the bass. The attack seems off or I'm just new to using a DAW and don't know how to tweak it yet. When I press the keys for the bass, the first note seems clean but then it sounds like it's lagging no matter how much I stay on beat with the metronome. I even went into the effects devices and dialed the attack way forward.

Can the Bass in Chambre or any native Reason bass be tweaked to give a warm smooth sound with good attack like you hear in a soundtrack? Is there any other Orchestra bass refills out there that's recommended?
The bass is terrible in that library. I've talked with them about it. It also have fewer samples and the bowing attack is terrible. If you listen to the demos the contrabass sounds really bad. Supposedly after talking with them via email they were going to rework it.

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