Softphonics New Analog Refills? (Jupiter, Juno, DX7)

[Purpleb]

Just wondering what do you guys/gals think about them?

Thanks

[16BitBear]

I am curious as well. I have been eyeing them, especially the Jupiter. Redominator covers the Juno and PX7 & FM4 covers the DX7.

[decibel]

i own a few of their other refills which are great quality, i cant see how these new ones wouldnt be of an equal standard or higher even ? probably a safe investment if you like the origional instruments they are based upon

[bitley]

I am curious as well. I have been eyeing them, especially the Jupiter. Redominator covers the Juno and PX7 & FM4 covers the DX7.

Not true in any sense whatsoever.

[selig]

I am curious as well. I have been eyeing them, especially the Jupiter. Redominator covers the Juno and PX7 & FM4 covers the DX7.

Not true in any sense whatsoever.

Depends… (absolutes can ALWAYS be argued…)
Even if you had the original instruments used to create the ReFills, you couldn't necessarily cover the ReFills assuming they are all original patches created by the ReFill developer.
On the other hand, if talking about factory patches, the original devices will smoke static samples (no matter how many samples you take).

Not having experience with these ReFills, I can't speak further on how well they introduce original sounds, but I'm assuming they do so.

[Reasonistas]

I'm a fan of all three original synth, but never lucky to own them. These Refills represent the original factory sound banks, which I personally prefer over original developer patches. IMHO, at $39.00 each it is a no-brainer if you want these iconic classic 80's sounds in Reason. I'm working a tune using all 3 but with a modern spin. They are proving to be quite versatile.

[bitley]

I don't know anything about these refills to clarify things, but I know "everything" about the synthesizers mentioned, besides this not all refill designers are newbies either; I personally have designed factory patches for a number of hardware instruments as well. Going back to the "covers all" discussion no plugin (yet) can do this since all DX and Juno models, respecively, had different technical solutions and because of this also different sounds & different character.

Juno: Three generations

1. Juno 6 & 60
2. Juno 106
3. Alpha Juno 1 & 2 and MKS-50

DX: Six (!) different generations / classes

1. DX7, DX7II, TX816 were 6-operator designs. Six simultaneous oscillators to modulate with.
2. DX9, FB01, DX21, DX27 & DX100 (same synth w different key size). 4-operator.
3. "The TX81Z class" added different waveforms and not just sinewaves; TX81Z, DX11, DS55, YS100, YS200, TQ5
4. SY77 and SY99 added sampled waveforms as possible FM modulators; the SY99 allowed user waveforms.
5. The FS1R added even more, 6-op backwards compatible but could also use 8 operators I think.
6. The new Reface DX takes up somewhere after the TX81Z as a 4-op synth with many new features the old ones didn't have, such as the ability for each operator to modulate itself.

ReDominator and PX7 comes pretty close but can't do everything all these synths do. Refills with good samples from the original instruments is a great add on. I have done this in the Fairlight refills and also added unique Synclavier FM sounds in my WBS refills. If Softphonics also have made great samples and patches (the samples are only a tenth of the ingredient in a sound really) they might also prove to be good and highly valid additions. So... what covers them all? Tricky question... I have samples and rack extensions but I still want a chunk of hardware synths around because they can all be valid in search of the perfect patch for a track. FM4 is a fun 4-op FM synth which can't reproduce DX7 sounds at all, but it can emulate the FB-01 pretty well.

[PurpleMonkeyDishes]

I am curious as well. I have been eyeing them, especially the Jupiter. Redominator covers the Juno and PX7 & FM4 covers the DX7.

As someone who has all the above mentioned, they are not the same at all. And I am sure the developer softphonics wouldn't have bothered creating the refills if they already existed in the "Intended manner" You know what I mean? The refills give you much more of "the original analog feel/ sound " without to much interference or modernization. They are not for everyone granted, but if you are a synth nerd like me, I have had great fun with the refills lately.

If I was to sum them up this would be it - The one thing they DO give you, is a sound that you do NOT already have.

Have a great weekend people

[bitley]

Exactly, thought of adding that as well; even if the Redominator can do a pretty decent emulation of the Alpha Juno, if you compare them side by side they sound completely different, same with PX7 vs DX7.

A virtual synth will almost at any moment be cleaner and more correct, so to speak, while the hardware original synth has more "life" to it for lack of a better word. This "life" in a sound can be different things.

I can compare my Roland JP08 to a Jupiter 8 and the Boutique will stay in tune and behave well at all times whereas the Jupiter will need a cozy studio temperature to do that. Tuning is not the only thing, background hiss and various small artefacts like voice variation also happens. So what is that? Well, analog polysynths often rotate their voices so if you play one note over and over, each retrigger will activate the following voice circuits since they are quite complex constructions; a Jupiter 8 is 8 monosynths in one really and it alters between these.

I have experimented a lot with this. On one experiment I took over 20 samples of the same note from my JX8P and made a patch that alternated between these. Only then could I make the sampler behave like the real synth. In a better way than any VA or softsynth I have used. In another experiment I copied the entire multisample set of a complete patch to eight versions and programmed variations to them all and alternated between them. What comes out are really exciting sounds that probably touches the analog reality a bit more. The "life".

With the JP08 or <insert any VA or softsynth here> I would need 8 of those and they would have to be modded to not be exact duplicates, either by programming or by tweaking the software in them. Pressing a note repeatedly would activate them sequentially. This mathematical figure becomes even more advanced when you start thinking about repeated five note chords...

Example: Five note chord triggering voice circuits in a Jupiter 8:

1
2
3
4
5

Repeat the chord and now voice circuits triggered are

2
3
4
5
6

or possibly

6
7
8
1
2

Like I said each circuit is a complete monophonic synth with all parameters of the JP8, such as SH-101's with lots of extras. Think of it as eight expanded SH-101's with a computer to control them all.

Anyone following this far?

[mreese80]

Exactly, thought of adding that as well; even if the Redominator can do a pretty decent emulation of the Alpha Juno, if you compare them side by side they sound completely different, same with PX7 vs DX7.

A virtual synth will almost at any moment be cleaner and more correct, so to speak, while the hardware original synth has more "life" to it for lack of a better word. This "life" in a sound can be different things.

I can compare my Roland JP08 to a Jupiter 8 and the Boutique will stay in tune and behave well at all times whereas the Jupiter will need a cozy studio temperature to do that. Tuning is not the only thing, background hiss and various small artefacts like voice variation also happens. So what is that? Well, analog polysynths often rotate their voices so if you play one note over and over, each retrigger will activate the following voice circuits since they are quite complex constructions; a Jupiter 8 is 8 monosynths in one really and it alters between these.

I have experimented a lot with this. On one experiment I took over 20 samples of the same note from my JX8P and made a patch that alternated between these. Only then could I make the sampler behave like the real synth. In a better way than any VA or softsynth I have used. In another experiment I copied the entire multisample set of a complete patch to eight versions and programmed variations to them all and alternated between them. What comes out are really exciting sounds that probably touches the analog reality a bit more. The "life".

With the JP08 or <insert any VA or softsynth here> I would need 8 of those and they would have to be modded to not be exact duplicates, either by programming or by tweaking the software in them. Pressing a note repeatedly would activate them sequentially. This mathematical figure becomes even more advanced when you start thinking about repeated five note chords...

Example: Five note chord triggering voice circuits in a Jupiter 8:

1
2
3
4
5

Repeat the chord and now voice circuits triggered are

2
3
4
5
6

or possibly

6
7
8
1
2

Like I said each circuit is a complete monophonic synth with all parameters of the JP8, such as SH-101's with lots of extras. Think of it as eight expanded SH-101's with a computer to control them all.

Anyone following this far?

Hey Bitley, whatever you say i'm rolling with man. The quality of your refills show's you know what you are talking about. I could never debate with Bitley man. Bitley sounds come first, than whoever sounds good next

[16BitBear]

I am curious as well. I have been eyeing them, especially the Jupiter. Redominator covers the Juno and PX7 & FM4 covers the DX7.

Not true in any sense whatsoever.

You are right of course, I was only speaking in general for Juno 'type' sounds and DX FM 'type' sounds and for what I use personally.

I own Analog Monsters 3 and I will very soon own your refills as well so I know there are tons of sounds and variations on those synths, patches, etc. to be had.

Long before I got very ill and went through a nasty divorce from an alcoholic, I owned most of these hardware synths. I had to sell them just to make it through that rough time. In the process, I really began to appreciate computer based solutions and slowly I am trying to recreate as many of those synths and sounds as possible 'in the box' so to speak.

Things are much better for me now, and in time, I want to get a few of those hardware synths back that I truly adored. I miss my Juno 106, my Jupiter 8, and TX81z a lot.

So hopefully I clarified better what I meant.

[16BitBear]

I am curious as well. I have been eyeing them, especially the Jupiter. Redominator covers the Juno and PX7 & FM4 covers the DX7.

As someone who has all the above mentioned, they are not the same at all. And I am sure the developer softphonics wouldn't have bothered creating the refills if they already existed in the "Intended manner" You know what I mean? The refills give you much more of "the original analog feel/ sound " without to much interference or modernization. They are not for everyone granted, but if you are a synth nerd like me, I have had great fun with the refills lately.

If I was to sum them up this would be it - The one thing they DO give you, is a sound that you do NOT already have.

Have a great weekend people

Yeah, I clarified a bit more in another reply what I meant.

I plan on getting all of these in time. I will start with the Jupiter as there is no RE that I can use to create my own patches. I have Jupiter patches in Analog Monsters and will have more in Bitley's. So this one is a definite for me. As I can recreate Juno 'type' sounds in Redominator and FM type sounds in PX7 & FM4, those two are not as high on my wishlist. I just spent way too much on RE's in the Madness sale, must get Bitley's while it is on sale, and definitely want to upgrade to V9, so I just have to prioritize what I will get and why given costs.

I am certain that if the quality is great on the Jupiter one that the other two will be worth the price as well for more sounds to work with in time.

[16BitBear]

@bitley Yeah, I totally get where you are coming from having once owned most of these hardware synths. Sometimes I can get closer to a sound from really well done samples than I can from a VST even if say, the Arturia ones are very high quality instruments.

[bitley]

Awesome responses! Missing a Jupiter 8 sounds problematic since those go for $Zillions now The JP08 is a really viable alternative and just at a breadcrumb of that price. And size.

[16BitBear]

Yeah, don't I know it! Sometimes I kick myself for having sold what I did. First synth I bought was a Minimoog when I was a 12. I got my father to give me the money so I could buy it off this wild teen guitarist who needed drug money. I got the synth, a case, and an amp all for 100 bucks. That was it for me. I feel in love! By the early 2000's I had a collection of hardware synths, samplers, drum machines, and outboard gear that rivaled SynthMania's.

But I was going through chemo and a bad divorce, and I just had to have the cash because I couldn't work for a bit. Such is life - the good and the bad.

I will check out the JP08 if you recommend it as a viable alternative to the Jupiter 8.

Thanks!

[bitley]

Yup, it's fantastic