Selig ART Tape: Ampex

[selig]

Hey again,

Since creating the Selig Vinyl "without the scratches" Combinator, I'm back with a faithful recreation of the Tape effect from the ART Rack Extension. This is the first step in adding additional functionality to the original preset. Here you will find an accurate reproduction of the original "Tape" preset with the added benefit of being able to go in and tweak parameters if desired. All front panel controls mimic the original, with the exception of the input Gain and output Volume, which only have 7 dB of positive gain as opposed to 12 dB on the original, and it's "unity" setting (0 dB) is not at 12:00 as per the original (Unity is at "100"). Otherwise they will sound nearly identical, with particular care taken to mimic the "Transform" control as precisely as possible. There are still very minor differences that will hopefully only be noticeable to those who put this Combi under the microscope!



I hope to create an additional version that will provide more specific control from the Combinator front panel, but thought this would be a great place to get started since I had to begin here anyway.

Get it here (please let me know if there are any problems with this download):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wwis0up16xp4n ... b.zip?dl=0

[Ostermilk]

Has it been tested on Windows?






/ducks for cover

[esselfortium]

Thank you!

[TheGodOfRainbows]

Cool! Thank you!!!

[challism]

Has it been tested on Windows?






/ducks for cover

ha ha ha ha ha!

Thanks again, Giles. Much appreciated!!

[pedrocaetanos]

First of all, thanks Giles!

All front panel controls mimic the original, with the exception of the input Gain and output Volume, which only have 7 dB of positive gain as opposed to 12 dB on the original, and it's "unity" setting (0 dB) is not at 12:00 as per the original (Unity is at "100").

Was this a side effect to make the implementation easier/possible, or was it on purpose? If on purpose, what was the objective?

Has it been tested on Windows?

I'm terribly busy this week, but as soon as I have time I'll test it on Windows 7. As soon as I upgrade I'll check too if it's compatible with Windows 10. One never know with these new versions...

But before I go into those Monty-Pythonesque tasks (if I ever do ), I'll probably try to reverse-engineer this and make some sibling combos

I can't find where it was described that this was based on Ampex MM-1200 (famous as one of the best sounding MTRs ever) from Jack Endino MTR response curves page (http://www.endino.com/graphs/ ). Probably it was described by Giles on the old PH forum.

I submitted three tape versions, Ampex, Otari, and MCI IIRC. [EDIT: the third is Sony, not MCI]
http://www.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php ... t=25#p9925

Giles, do you remember if the only difference between those was the frequency response curve, or did you made some more tweaks?

[challism]

I wish Props would release a version of the device you guys used to create the audiomatic presets as an RE. That would be really cool.

[pedrocaetanos]

I wish Props would release a version of the device you guys used to create the audiomatic presets as an RE. That would be really cool.

That would be... Audiomatic!
I'm having a hard time understanding what you wish... maybe an Audiomatic with more control parameters?

[Jordan Miller]

Thanks for this Selig! I love the tape setting on audiomatic and use it quite a lot, mostly on synth sounds.
VHS is second favourite followed by Bottom which is sometimes useful.

I hope I can get some useful tweaking out of this combi patch, thanks a lot!

[selig]

I wish Props would release a version of the device you guys used to create the audiomatic presets as an RE. That would be really cool.

That would be... Audiomatic!
I'm having a hard time understanding what you wish... maybe an Audiomatic with more control parameters?

What is being suggested is basically a user programmable multi-FX device, building on the simple approach used to build the presets for ART. I still feel that building these sorts of things in a Combinator (as I have done here) is FAR simpler and more intuitive than a device with a locked in set of FX. Not to mention how unintuitive the routing would be for an all-in-one type of device when compared to routing in a Combinator. Also, you would eventually want to use external devices/REs anyway.

In other words, whatever anyone could come up with will always be more limited than using a Combinator for the same thing, unless there is some amazing feature I'm overlooking here.

[challism]

I'm surprised to learn that the presets from Audiomatic are just FX from stock devices. I figured it would have more inside than just stock FX code. Anywho.... I still love Audiomatic, and am enjoying the combi's you released to us. Thanks again.

[selig]

I'm surprised to learn that the presets from Audiomatic are just FX from stock devices. I figured it would have more inside than just stock FX code. Anywho.... I still love Audiomatic, and am enjoying the combi's you released to us. Thanks again.

I didn't say they were stock devices!

[challism]

I wish Props would release a version of the device you guys used to create the audiomatic presets as an RE. That would be really cool.

That would be... Audiomatic!
I'm having a hard time understanding what you wish... maybe an Audiomatic with more control parameters?

Giles mentioned in the (vinyl thread) how the FX were created using a crude RE from Props. http://www.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php ... 86#p226786

Giles said: "We were provided an RE that was basically a "multi FX" device with a crude interface (no need for glitz since no one would see this), and used it to create our own "patches". Then we put it in a Combinator and assigned the first rotary to whatever parameters we wanted the "Transform" knob to control. Elegant and fun way to build a product IMO!"

I'm just wishing we could have a similar RE released for all of us to play with. Something that isn't a combi, but a collection of the FX used for each preset, that we could tweak more parameters.

I would like to see more controls on Audiomatic. Too bad we can really only tweak the w/d and transform. It would be cool to have a bit more variation to the sound/FX.

I'm surprised to learn that the presets from Audiomatic are just FX from stock devices. I figured it would have more inside than just stock FX code. Anywho.... I still love Audiomatic, and am enjoying the combi's you released to us. Thanks again.

I didn't say they were stock devices!

Ooops, my bad, Giles. I guess I was reading into what you said a bit too far, and making a jump in my thinking.

[selig]

I wish Props would release a version of the device you guys used to create the audiomatic presets as an RE. That would be really cool.

That would be... Audiomatic!
I'm having a hard time understanding what you wish... maybe an Audiomatic with more control parameters?

Giles mentioned in the (vinyl thread) how the FX were created using a crude RE from Props. http://www.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php ... 86#p226786

Giles said: "We were provided an RE that was basically a "multi FX" device with a crude interface (no need for glitz since no one would see this), and used it to create our own "patches". Then we put it in a Combinator and assigned the first rotary to whatever parameters we wanted the "Transform" knob to control. Elegant and fun way to build a product IMO!"

I'm just wishing we could have a similar RE released for all of us to play with. Something that isn't a combi, but a collection of the FX used for each preset, that we could tweak more parameters.

I would like to see more controls on Audiomatic. Too bad we can really only tweak the w/d and transform. It would be cool to have a bit more variation to the sound/FX.

I'm surprised to learn that the presets from Audiomatic are just FX from stock devices. I figured it would have more inside than just stock FX code. Anywho.... I still love Audiomatic, and am enjoying the combi's you released to us. Thanks again.

I didn't say they were stock devices!

Ooops, my bad, Giles. I guess I was reading into what you said a bit too far, and making a jump in my thinking.

I just wanted to clarify that one bit because at least a few of the modules were unlike any stock device in Reason. Still, the idea that an all-in-one device would be better than individual devices in a Combinator is something I don't agree with. ART is as limited compared to a single devices as a multi-FX RE would be compared to a Combinator IMO.

[jfrichards]

...VHS is second favourite followed by Bottom which is sometimes useful...

[challism]

Still, the idea that an all-in-one device would be better than individual devices in a Combinator is something I don't agree with. ART is as limited compared to a single devices as a multi-FX RE would be compared to a Combinator IMO.

I agree that a combi is a better way to go, having more controls over any device you throw in there. Perhaps I am just confusing everyone with what I was wanting. I guess, what I really want is a Super Audiomatic, where you have the ability to edit more of the parameters of the presets. That's really all I was trying to say. But anyway, I like Audiomatic very much the way it is. I guess it's just human nature to want more.

Did you create more of the presets than Tape and Vinyle, Giles? I'm fan of both of those presets. I also use Bottom, VHS, Eerie, Cracked, Circuit, PVC and Gadget frequently.

[dana]

This is great, i've already made a few of my own versions with the lower-end distortion toned down, with more vibrance at lower settings and less vibrance at upper settings.. i know, kind of weird but i like the output to be more balanced even though its a tape effect, i also tweaked a few of the other settings.. Not trying to copy the original effect here, just modifying it to something else

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ur2023wzhn9gp ... B.cmb?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o0hn622ih259k ... C.cmb?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pkk4z2who9znm ... D.cmb?dl=0

[Marco Raaphorst]

very cool devices! thanks!

[nooomy]

Now make a combinator with the Vinyl noise but without the vinyl effect!

JK

Anyway thats for a cool combinator!

[selig]

Now make a combinator with the Vinyl noise but without the vinyl effect!

JK

Anyway thats for a cool combinator!

Not sure what you mean - do you mean just the scratches? For that I would use a sample of the space before/between songs on a real record. I don't find many modern emulations of this effect to be able to beat the read deal. I'm sure that somewhere someone has pressed a "silent" record and sampled that - but that alone won't recreate the way vinyl affects the recorded audio, it will simply add a layer of 'crap' to your mix!

IMO the BEST way to get a vinyl sound is to do a test pressing of your mix and re-record that back to digital.

[challism]

IMO the BEST way to get a vinyl sound is to do a test pressing of your mix and re-record that back to digital.

I know you are kidding around, but I am curious how much that would cost? I'm not interested in doing it, just curious what the price would be to press an album. Anyone have any ideas?

[Exowildebeest]

Now make a combinator with the Vinyl noise but without the vinyl effect!

JK

Anyway thats for a cool combinator!

Not sure what you mean - do you mean just the scratches? For that I would use a sample of the space before/between songs on a real record. I don't find many modern emulations of this effect to be able to beat the read deal. I'm sure that somewhere someone has pressed a "silent" record and sampled that - but that alone won't recreate the way vinyl affects the recorded audio, it will simply add a layer of 'crap' to your mix!

IMO the BEST way to get a vinyl sound is to do a test pressing of your mix and re-record that back to digital.

Press an impulse to vinyl and use that with convolution maybe?

Not the real deal either because an impulse is totally and static and deterministic, but you would get at least a snapshot of the frequency response of that particular vinyl pressing?

[selig]

IMO the BEST way to get a vinyl sound is to do a test pressing of your mix and re-record that back to digital.

I know you are kidding around, but I am curious how much that would cost? I'm not interested in doing it, just curious what the price would be to press an album. Anyone have any ideas?

Just found this by googling:
http://www.urpressing.com/pricing/vinyl/7inch.php

Cutting to the chase, it's $175 for two sides if I'm reading it correctly (maybe less for one side?), which is around the price of a reel of 2" tape. You could possibly make a deal for far less if you explained your situation and sweet talked the engineer?

But in the mean time, I found an example of what I was talking about here:
https://www.dubstepforum.com/forum/view ... 8&t=240716
This is a collection of 19 different samples of vinyl (with no music). Probably exactly what some of you are looking for. Simply loop and add to your mix!

[challism]

$175 seems very reasonable for a single pressing, but what the hell do I know?

That's a nice find on those vinyl sounds!! I was trying to find a similar thing the other day, but for tape noise. It was completely fruitless.

[selig]

Here's one:
http://freesound.org/people/BoilingSand/sounds/49005/
Try googling "tape hiss" instead of "noise". But fwiw, it's mostly high frequency noise, so as a quick solution just use Thor's noise and a high pass filter and put it down at -50 dBFS or so in the mix and that should do it. For added realism, modulate the amplitude by a "slow random" waveform to simulate tape dropout, adjusting the rate and depth to get some random variations in the level and/or brightness.