The Echo Breakout Bug - Delay TIme changes

[mbfrancis]

It seems like this is a major bug - unless I'm the only one who has it.

1) Start a rhythmic part.
2) Add an Echo at 50/50 mix at synced 1/8th delay - the delays should sync nicely with the tempo of the part.
3) Wire in a Channel EQ to the breakout jacks (e.g. to add an HPF).

Every time I do this the delay time changes:

* Original groove w/ 1/8 note delay time: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tpbzt8v1 ... k49ed&dl=0
* Adding Channel EQ to Breakout: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ai11vju6 ... f93mp&dl=0
(In this case the delay time is still in tempo sync - at a different time - but usually it isn't.)

Can someone else validate this - clearly this can't be intended functionality. It happens with every effect I drop in.

Now every time I want to edit the delay signal I have to either tweak the time in ms manually, set up a mini mixer and use the send, or split the signal and later merge.

Thanks all.

[selig]

I’m not able to reproduce any change here using channel EQ in the breakout I/O of The Echo.
[Edit: wait a sec - with high feedback there is a difference, I measured it at 12ms @ 44.1kHz and 11ms @ 48kHz, showing it is related to sample rate. I’d call it a bug since this happens if you simply loop the in/out on The Echo without adding any device. At worst I’d expect a one batch (64 sample) delay which should be 1.5ms or so @ 44.1kHz
Ignore the rest!]

Are you doing anything else at all that could affect this? Did you try to remove any other devices to troubleshoot? Does it happen if you start a new empty song and just use a generic ‘reset’ patch from Thor or Europa and The Echo/Channel EQ? Nothing special going on with the routing anywhere else?

[Loque]

Is the break out related to the buffet size?

[deeplink]

Is this not related to Delay Compensation and Problematic Configurations?

Page 512 - 514 of the Reason 12.7 Operation Manual

See if there is a difference with Delay Comp on/off

Capture.PNG (353.82 KiB) Viewed 510 times

[veezay]

[Edit: wait a sec - with high feedback there is a difference, I measured it at 12ms @ 44.1kHz and 11ms @ 48kHz, showing it is related to sample rate. I’d call it a bug since this happens if you simply loop the in/out on The Echo without adding any device. At worst I’d expect a one batch (64 sample) delay which should be 1.5ms or so @ 44.1kHz
Ignore the rest!]

Do you happen to have "Render audio using audio card buffer size setting" enabled and a buffer size of 512 samples? That would explain the ~12ms.

[selig]

[Edit: wait a sec - with high feedback there is a difference, I measured it at 12ms @ 44.1kHz and 11ms @ 48kHz, showing it is related to sample rate. I’d call it a bug since this happens if you simply loop the in/out on The Echo without adding any device. At worst I’d expect a one batch (64 sample) delay which should be 1.5ms or so @ 44.1kHz
Ignore the rest!]

Do you happen to have "Render audio using audio card buffer size setting" enabled and a buffer size of 512 samples? That would explain the ~12ms.

Yes, that’s causing it and yes it is also tied to buffer size, and not this specific situation does not involve delay compensation. This would explain why the “offset” was different in different cases for the OP.

Thanks for the heads up, I always forget to check audio prefs when investigating delay/latency issues.
Looks like we have to choose between improved plugin performance and correct timing… ;(

[mbfrancis]

I’m not able to reproduce any change here using channel EQ in the breakout I/O of The Echo.
[Edit: wait a sec - with high feedback there is a difference, I measured it at 12ms @ 44.1kHz and 11ms @ 48kHz, showing it is related to sample rate. I’d call it a bug since this happens if you simply loop the in/out on The Echo without adding any device. At worst I’d expect a one batch (64 sample) delay which should be 1.5ms or so @ 44.1kHz
Ignore the rest!]

Are you doing anything else at all that could affect this? Did you try to remove any other devices to troubleshoot? Does it happen if you start a new empty song and just use a generic ‘reset’ patch from Thor or Europa and The Echo/Channel EQ? Nothing special going on with the routing anywhere else?

Thanks Selig for the response. Per your msg I started a new song with a default template (Empty plus FX), added a Europa played by a matrix, added an Echo which I reset, worked great, than added a half rack Chorus/Flanger and it happened again.

Everyone else, thank you all:
* My buffer size is (currently) at 1024 samples, using a Scarlett 18i20. Both compensations in Preferences are set to 49 samples.
* Delay compensation is enabled in Options drop down.
* "Render audio using audio card buffer size setting" is selected.

OK -
* Unchecking "Delay Compensation" makes no difference.
* Reducing Sample buffer from 1024 to 96 improves it a lot, but it's still off.
* Unchecking "Render audio using audio card buffer size setting" - BINGO, fixed.

OK so what does this mean -
Should I just leave this unchecked all the time? Will this impact performance?
Are other RE's affected in similar ways that I'm just not noticing?
Are there other workarounds - changing channel latency (on the mix channel) makes no difference.

Thanks again all.

Martin