Automate Combinator run switch

[Dionisio]

Hi

Sorry for my newbie question
But is there any trick for automate the Combinator Run switch from the main Sequencer?

Thank you all

Dionisio

[jam-s]

No, it automatically starts and stops with the sequencer. But there might be other ways to do what you might be wanting to do, but you'll have to tell us your actual goal first.

[Dionisio]

No, it automatically starts and stops with the sequencer. But there might be other ways to do what you might be wanting to do, but you'll have to tell us your actual goal first.

Hi jam-s

My goal is to trigger the Players devices inside a Combinator anywhere i want from the main Sequencer.
It´s like a clip launcher poor version in Reason Daw, instead of trigger them all at same time.
If i can automate the Combinator´s run switch i can control when and where it start and stop.
I know i can use the direct record, but i find much more easy write automation.

Thank you for your reply

[selig]

It’s possible that neither of these will work for you but just to be sure:
For any Players that use Patterns, you can paste pattern automation.
For Players with a KEY trigger mode you can paste MIDI notes to trigger the Player.

[Dionisio]

It’s possible that neither of these will work for you but just to be sure:
For any Players that use Patterns, you can paste pattern automation.
For Players with a KEY trigger mode you can paste MIDI notes to trigger the Player.

Hi selig

Thank you for your reply
Yes you right i can paste all that information.
But just for Reason´s Players that have this feature.
But i can´t do the same in Lectric Panda Players or Robotic Bean Sequences for example and maybe many others in a near future.
That´s why i find the Combinator´s run switch more effective because run all Players no matter what features they have.
I find all the others Combinator´s controls can be automatable but not the run switch.

[Dionisio]

I can control the run switch externally from a Korg Nanocontrol but a can´t record that automation or i´am missing something?

[Loque]

You can spread different Players (Instruments) over the the keyboard and if the Player supports it, you can trigger it with this key. There might be similar possibilities if CV is supported. All depends on which Sequencers, Players and how you want to set up everything... Cumbersome, but at least a bit is possible...

keyrangeplayers.jpg (168.05 KiB) Viewed 44188 times

[Dionisio]

You can spread different Players (Instruments) over the the keyboard and if the Player supports it, you can trigger it with this key. There might be similar possibilities if CV is supported. All depends on which Sequencers, Players and how you want to set up everything... Cumbersome, but at least a bit is possible...

keyrangeplayers.jpg

Hi Loque

Thank you for your reply
Yes i can trigger some Reason´s Players from a midi key
But many others Players i can´t, even they own run switch don´t support automation

Thank you all for your time and patience

[selig]

I’m able to do it using IAC (mac) and a MIDI Out device as the sequencer track. I’m using sustain pedal messages for now, but you can assign any control via Remote Override Mapping.
The one problem seems to be keeping the pattern from playing at the start of the song (or anywhere you move the curser). It first needs to see an “on” message followed by an “off” and THEN it will follow automation. So you’ll need to factor that into whether or not this approach works for you.

[selig]

Just thought of another option. All Players have an “ON” button. Not sure all the ramifications of all 3rd party Players and using this approach, but by assigning a button to control On/Off on all Players, you could then automate that button for the result you’re looking for.
One thing that’s nice is that it will be muted at the top if you program an OFF at that point, unlike my previous approach.

[Bes]

seems like it will be a limitation of the system not an oversight by any RE dev
this was suggested already but switching to an empty pattern? Aggregate is the only player i can think of right now that doesn't have patterns

automating the On button keeps the playhead of the device in sync with the transport so depending on when you automate the switch to occur the playhead could be in the middle of the sequence window (confirmed for kompulsion anyway)

[Dionisio]

Just thought of another option. All Players have an “ON” button. Not sure all the ramifications of all 3rd party Players and using this approach, but by assigning a button to control On/Off on all Players, you could then automate that button for the result you’re looking for.
One thing that’s nice is that it will be muted at the top if you program an OFF at that point, unlike my previous approach.

Yes the players on/off switch is so far is the best option.
Another one is control the Combinator run switch with gate information from VCV Pro it´s not perfect but works.
From my midi keyboard i can assign a specific midi key for controlling the run switch, but so far when i record that key the switch don´t respond as i want.

[Dionisio]

seems like it will be a limitation of the system not an oversight by any RE dev
this was suggested already but switching to an empty pattern? Aggregate is the only player i can think of right now that doesn't have patterns

automating the On button keeps the playhead of the device in sync with the transport so depending on when you automate the switch to occur the playhead could be in the middle of the sequence window (confirmed for kompulsion anyway)

Yes is true "automating the On button keeps the playhead of the device in sync with the transport"
The Combinator run switch do the same behavior, in both ways none of them reset´s the sequencer
Yes i believe it´s a limitation from reason daw not from the developers
I´m not a developer so i don´t if it´s possible create a player device to run the others with start, stop, reset,continue all automatable.
If it´s doable i think it will be amazing

[buddard]

Yes i believe it´s a limitation from reason daw not from the developers
I´m not a developer so i don´t if it´s possible create a player device to run the others with start, stop, reset,continue all automatable.
If it´s doable i think it will be amazing

Run buttons are not supposed to be automated, because it means that devices could start playing just by moving the playhead around in Reason even when the main transport is stopped (since moving the playhead to a different automated value will immediately change the property on the device). Because of this, the developer docs explicitly state that we mustn’t make those automatable, and devices that do will be rejected by RS during acceptance testing. Instead you’re supposed to automate properties like On or Pattern Select that control the behaviour of the player/sequencer during playback.

[Dionisio]

Yes i believe it´s a limitation from reason daw not from the developers
I´m not a developer so i don´t if it´s possible create a player device to run the others with start, stop, reset,continue all automatable.
If it´s doable i think it will be amazing

Run buttons are not supposed to be automated, because it means that devices could start playing just by moving the playhead around in Reason even when the main transport is stopped (since moving the playhead to a different automated value will immediately change the property on the device). Because of this, the developer docs explicitly state that we mustn’t make those automatable, and devices that do will be rejected by RS during acceptance testing. Instead you’re supposed to automate properties like On or Pattern Select that control the behaviour of the player/sequencer during playback.

Hi buddard
Thank you for your explanation
I understand "devices could start playing just by moving the playhead around"
I think that´s because the run switch don't send a reset signal to the player sequencer, is that correct!?
But if run switch send also a reset signal to the player sequencer that problem is solved, i suppose.

[selig]

I’m able to do it using IAC (mac) and a MIDI Out device as the sequencer track. I’m using sustain pedal messages for now, but you can assign any control via Remote Override Mapping.
The one problem seems to be keeping the pattern from playing at the start of the song (or anywhere you move the curser). It first needs to see an “on” message followed by an “off” and THEN it will follow automation. So you’ll need to factor that into whether or not this approach works for you.

Did this suggestion, which automates the Combinator Run button as you ask, not work for you?

[buddard]

Run buttons are not supposed to be automated, because it means that devices could start playing just by moving the playhead around in Reason even when the main transport is stopped (since moving the playhead to a different automated value will immediately change the property on the device). Because of this, the developer docs explicitly state that we mustn’t make those automatable, and devices that do will be rejected by RS during acceptance testing. Instead you’re supposed to automate properties like On or Pattern Select that control the behaviour of the player/sequencer during playback.

Hi buddard
Thank you for your explanation
I understand "devices could start playing just by moving the playhead around"
I think that´s because the run switch don't send a reset signal to the player sequencer, is that correct!?
But if run switch send also a reset signal to the player sequencer that problem is solved, i suppose.

No, that's not what I meant, sorry if I'm not explaining this very clearly.

If you would be able to automate the Run state, imagine the following scenario:

- You have an automation clip where the Run state is On, and outside the clip the Run state is Off
- Reason's playhead is currently outside the automation clip
- Reason's main transport is stopped

Now, if you move Reason's playhead to a time inside the automation clip, the player/sequencer device will suddenly start playing because it will receive Run = On, even though nothing else is playing.

So allowing Run to be automated would lead to a lot of unexpected and unwanted behaviour. That is why it's better to automate On or Pattern Select instead, since they behave the more like you would expect Run to behave when automated, i e they decide whether the device should play anything when Run is activated.

Note, however, that it's perfectly fine (and even strongly encouraged) to allow Run to tbe Remote controlled.

[Dionisio]

I’m able to do it using IAC (mac) and a MIDI Out device as the sequencer track. I’m using sustain pedal messages for now, but you can assign any control via Remote Override Mapping.
The one problem seems to be keeping the pattern from playing at the start of the song (or anywhere you move the curser). It first needs to see an “on” message followed by an “off” and THEN it will follow automation. So you’ll need to factor that into whether or not this approach works for you.

Did this suggestion, which automates the Combinator Run button as you ask, not work for you?

I think IAC (mac) is a midi interface right? I´m on W10 using loopback midi interface from VCV Pro inside Reason DAW and i can control the run switch with a gate signal from VCV.
it´s not perfect but it work´s.

[Dionisio]

Hi buddard
Thank you for your explanation
I understand "devices could start playing just by moving the playhead around"
I think that´s because the run switch don't send a reset signal to the player sequencer, is that correct!?
But if run switch send also a reset signal to the player sequencer that problem is solved, i suppose.

No, that's not what I meant, sorry if I'm not explaining this very clearly.

If you would be able to automate the Run state, imagine the following scenario:

- You have an automation clip where the Run state is On, and outside the clip the Run state is Off
- Reason's playhead is currently outside the automation clip
- Reason's main transport is stopped

Now, if you move Reason's playhead to a time inside the automation clip, the player/sequencer device will suddenly start playing because it will receive Run = On, even though nothing else is playing.

So allowing Run to be automated would lead to a lot of unexpected and unwanted behaviour. That is why it's better to automate On or Pattern Select instead, since they behave the more like you would expect Run to behave when automated, i e they decide whether the device should play anything when Run is activated.

Note, however, that it's perfectly fine (and even strongly encouraged) to allow Run to tbe Remote controlled.

No problem, english is not my strongest point, sorry to bother you all with my naive questions.

Reason's playhead is the Reason main sequencer right? I confused with a Players sequencer sorry.
I think i see the problem, if i stop the reason main sequencer on a clip with run switch on when i restart the main sequencer from the first bar it will loose that information and keep´s playing no mater if i want the run on or off right?

My first idea with the combinator´s run switch automation it was using a Combinator like a clip/pattern launcher, an approach to Bitwig/Ableton thing.
By the way your Player Sequences is amazing, i think it´s only one with automatable reset and cv inputs for controlling the sequencer behavior, well done
The feature i would like to see implemented is a randomize pattern like we have in Matrix sequencer it will be perfect.

[dioxide]

My goal is to trigger the Players devices inside a Combinator anywhere i want from the main Sequencer.
It´s like a clip launcher poor version in Reason Daw, instead of trigger them all at same time.
If i can automate the Combinator´s run switch i can control when and where it start and stop.
I know i can use the direct record, but i find much more easy write automation.

I think I can answer this, or if not, what I do is similar to what you're asking for.

Add one of these to the last Player slot. Switching it off will block any incoming notes from the main sequencer or any Players.*
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... ive-notes/
*To block a Matrix connected by CV Gate you'll need to nest the instrument and Player inside a Combinator.

For the next step.I use Peff Director. This is a primarily an audio mixing device, but it also has timed CV outputs from the back of the device. Connecting these to the Receive Notes Players will allow you latch the instruments on and off. There are quantise settings on the front of Directre but generally I have these set to Bar so that instruments come in and out on the bar.

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... io-router/

This set up allows me to have a basic poor man's clip launcher. So it won't switch patterns for example but it does allow you to jam live in a similar way to Ableton live. It makes arrangement pretty easy as well because you can just move Directre On/off automation around. The note clips can all be hidden and just loop in a single Block clip.

EDIT: Here's a quick example. Excuse the crap sequences as it's just to show how it works. You can see that this technique can also be used with Redrum. If you wanted to skip the Note Receive Player you can – I actually used to do this only with Note Receive in the Combinator, but it's much easier to just use the Note Receive Player and it is free.

[Dionisio]

My goal is to trigger the Players devices inside a Combinator anywhere i want from the main Sequencer.
It´s like a clip launcher poor version in Reason Daw, instead of trigger them all at same time.
If i can automate the Combinator´s run switch i can control when and where it start and stop.
I know i can use the direct record, but i find much more easy write automation.

I think I can answer this, or if not, what I do is similar to what you're asking for.

Add one of these to the last Player slot. Switching it off will block any incoming notes from the main sequencer or any Players.*
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... ive-notes/
*To block a Matrix connected by CV Gate you'll need to nest the instrument and Player inside a Combinator.

For the next step.I use Peff Director. This is a primarily an audio mixing device, but it also has timed CV outputs from the back of the device. Connecting these to the Receive Notes Players will allow you latch the instruments on and off. There are quantise settings on the front of Directre but generally I have these set to Bar so that instruments come in and out on the bar.

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... io-router/

This set up allows me to have a basic poor man's clip launcher. So it won't switch patterns for example but it does allow you to jam live in a similar way to Ableton live. It makes arrangement pretty easy as well because you can just move Directre On/off automation around. The note clips can all be hidden and just loop in a single Block clip.

Thank you dioxide for your reply

Unfortunately i don´t have Peff Director
Is there any image or video to see and learn how do you do it?

Thank you again

[dioxide]

Can you download the demo to try it?

[Dionisio]

My goal is to trigger the Players devices inside a Combinator anywhere i want from the main Sequencer.
It´s like a clip launcher poor version in Reason Daw, instead of trigger them all at same time.
If i can automate the Combinator´s run switch i can control when and where it start and stop.
I know i can use the direct record, but i find much more easy write automation.

I think I can answer this, or if not, what I do is similar to what you're asking for.

Add one of these to the last Player slot. Switching it off will block any incoming notes from the main sequencer or any Players.*
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... ive-notes/
*To block a Matrix connected by CV Gate you'll need to nest the instrument and Player inside a Combinator.

For the next step.I use Peff Director. This is a primarily an audio mixing device, but it also has timed CV outputs from the back of the device. Connecting these to the Receive Notes Players will allow you latch the instruments on and off. There are quantise settings on the front of Directre but generally I have these set to Bar so that instruments come in and out on the bar.

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... io-router/

This set up allows me to have a basic poor man's clip launcher. So it won't switch patterns for example but it does allow you to jam live in a similar way to Ableton live. It makes arrangement pretty easy as well because you can just move Directre On/off automation around. The note clips can all be hidden and just loop in a single Block clip.

EDIT: Here's a quick example. Excuse the crap sequences as it's just to show how it works. You can see that this technique can also be used with Redrum. If you wanted to skip the Note Receive Player you can – I actually used to do this only with Note Receive in the Combinator, but it's much easier to just use the Note Receive Player and it is free.

Thank you for your file